Motorhome Payload Stop Checks

[Crazy Grandad]

Have any of you funsters ever been stopped in the UK and had your weight checked. Just been on weighbridge and wondered if there is any leeway with regard to carrying extra food and fuel on a 3500 van weight

 

[Old Gibber]

So what did the weighbridge readout say then - 60kg or 80kg?

73kg

 

[Soycd]

Most likely.

I'm not so sure. If you declared your weight to be 3500kg and and actually you were 3700kg at the time of an accident then you are in breach of your insurance agreement. Insurance companies will try very hard to wriggle out of a payout.

 

[nicholsong]

I'm not so sure. If you declared your weight to be 3500kg and and actually you were 3700kg at the time of an accident then you are in breach of your insurance agreement. Insurance companies will try very hard to wriggle out of a payout.

How would the insurance company know that?

 

[The Artilleryman]

I'd add to that insurance. If you up rate and don't tell your insurance company you could have a problem. The van is no longer the same specification that you insured it as.

When I asked my insurance co. about increasing the plated weight, they weren't particularly interested on actual weight, only had I added extra kit, so increasing the value (increased premium).

The other point about weighing in excess of 3500kg, you could be done for "not driving in accordance with your license" IE you don't hold C1.

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[Mzracer]

I'm not so sure. If you declared your weight to be 3500kg and and actually you were 3700kg at the time of an accident then you are in breach of your insurance agreement. Insurance companies will try very hard to wriggle out of a payout.

A bit like you are meant to abide by speed limits.

 

[Soycd]

How would the insurance company know that?

Let’s say for instance that you are 100-200kg over. You have a prang in France. Cops think you are overweight so weigh van. You make a claim. Insurance want police report. It’s a million to one chance. Breaching the terms of insurance terms could lead to them not paying out.

 

[Stoosal]

How would the insurance company know that?

Really only in the event of a serious/fatal rtc when vehicles are weighed, particularly commercial type vehicles.

 

[Tigger-Tim]

I'm not so sure. If you declared your weight to be 3500kg and and actually you were 3700kg at the time of an accident then you are in breach of your insurance agreement. Insurance companies will try very hard to wriggle out of a payout.

You can check the financial ombudsman decisions here: https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/decisions-case-studies/ombudsman-decisions

I can find plenty where the insurer declined to payout because of bald tyres. But none for a motorhome being overweight.

 

[TonyEmm]

I'm doomed. We have four travel seats but only one double bed. We never travel with more than the two of us and run pretty close to 3500Kg in fighting trim(full tanks etc). You are suggesting that I should never be above 3350Kg.

Our configuration is the same… If the plod can add on 150kgs for non-existent passengers (and I think they or DVSA would struggle with that argument in a court) then the only answer I see is to remove the unused seat-belts! I have to say, I’m not about to do that….

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[Captain Birdseye]

The Enforcement Sanction Policy - December 2022 says

NON-COMMERCIAL DRIVERS
In genuine cases of ignorance e.g. moving house, and where the offence is unlikely to be repeated, a prohibition should be issued, and an overloading guidance leaflet handed to the driver. To take into account the Public Interest Test no Fixed Penalty Notice should be issued in these circumstances.

DVLA do pull in motorhomes. If the Officers think you are not genuine, you stand a good chance of being done.

Not just being done. They may not let you proceed on journey journey untill you have removed sufficient weight to be within your limit.

 

[Apacheman]

Wow. A lot of information on here that is not right. If you get weighed by the authorities, that weight is applicable and can be used to prosecute you if you are overweight. No one can assume you may add more weight after (ie pick more passengers up etc). . If you are overweight you would still be insured at least for 3rd party liability (minimum cover) Insurers may argue about your comprehensive cover if you were involved in an accident and somehow they were made aware you were overweight? That said best thing is to make sure you are running within your limits.

 

[WESTY66]

Also technically the max gross weight is weighed with the driver out of the cab so if they weigh you at 3500kg with the driver out, you will be over weight!
Some quarries will not let a driver out at 44000kgs, it is usually 43900kgs if the driver gets out and enters the weighbridge allowing for the weight of the driver, or if the driver stays in the cab they will let it out at 44000kg
Also for clarification there is NO 5% allowance as a few have said you’re either under or over

 

[Roger20]

You can check the financial ombudsman decisions here: https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/decisions-case-studies/ombudsman-decisions

I can find plenty where the insurer declined to payout because of bald tyres. But none for a motorhome being overweight.

I'm sure I've seen an insurance condition that a valid MOT certificate is required. Mine expires in May but doesn't require taxing again until March 2025. Easy to forget that it has expired. Yet another thing to catch you out

 

[DDJC]

I can drive up to 7500kg. Mrs DDJC is limited to 3500kg

Our MH is plated at 3500kg, and I am fairly sure that when we travel we are a bit over, maybe 5%, which is an additional 175kg. Can't ever see that we are ever over by that much. We always tow a little 500kg unbraked Anssems trailer that I am considering chopping for a 750kg braked Anssems trailer.

My concern is less about the chances of being randomly stopped, or the chances of being in a prang and weighed. My main concern is that am I safe to travel a bit over.

I rationalise it like this. I looked into up-plating and if I fitted semi air to the rear axles, and put on 225 tyres (from 215), and then paid someone a hundred quid, I could get plated to 3850kg and extra on the rear axle. I have done the tyres and semi air, so I am therefore now safe in my own mind, although likely over my current plated weight. I am a belt and braces kind of a guy, so I also upgraded the brake disks and pads from Fiat original equipment to Brembo.

The fine for being overweight by 5% is £100. That is risk I am prepared to take, because I am confident that the bus is safe on the road. I would then have to either dump kit or pack everything hard into the trailer. Nuisance, but not a catastrophe.

However, I could get it up-plated, but then the Missus couldn't legally drive it. If I am driving, no problem. If she is driving, then she would get a fine for driving a vehicle she isn't allowed to drive. In Britain, for extreme cases (a 14 year old driving a bus for example!) that is up to a £1000 fine plus up to 6 points. But we don't have to unload and dump stuff, because I then take over. It is silly, because the bus is the same length and width empty or full, and with bigger tyres and semi air, it is only a bureaucratic bit of paper. Not sure what the French and Italian cops would do about it.

Better to be a tad overweight and take the fine, if weighed. I feel safe and that is what matters to me. The 1997 ruling to remove C1 from license is perverse and more people should be complaining about it.

Of course she could take a C1 test, but what is the point when it is increasingly looking like the DVLA is going to revert back to pre-1997 rules and give C1 to all 3500kg licence holders who are over 21 and have two years driving experience?

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[Tigger-Tim]

I'm sure I've seen an insurance condition that a valid MOT certificate is required. Easy to forget that it has expired. Yet another thing to catch you out

The insurance ombudsman ruled that was an unfair condition. Most policies now state that the vehicle has to be roadworthy.

 

[Tony50]

It's the responsibility of every driver I say driver of the said vehicle not the owner to make sure he or she is legal, as regards to keep publishing this subject , if we are not careful every motorhome on the road will be pulled up and weighed causing untold inconvenience,do we need that , just keep legal .

 

[DDJC]

It's the responsibility of every driver I say driver of the said vehicle not the owner to make sure he or she is legal, as regards to keep publishing this subject , if we are not careful every motorhome on the road will be pulled up and weighed causing untold inconvenience,do we need that , just keep legal .

Sounds so easy doesn't it? Two disabled kids kind of challenges that for us. I am content that my bus is safe, and I crank up the semi air to look as if I am light in the back. My choice.

 

[swanseajack13]

New to me a 21plate m/h only 3500kg weight bridge 3200kg ,two people at say 75gk = 150kg so leaves me with 150kg to carry water and all the other crap,fitted air suspension upgrading it to 4250kg with a company called SV TECH at this time so I can carry more crap ,just waiting for the paper work to be completed and a new V5 from the dvla
Have to keep My C1 at the end of the year as well happy motor fun
Swansea jack

 

[Lenny HB]

I find I get annoyed with these threads with people keep asking if anyone's been stopped for being over & people keep coming up with it's not a problem the chassis can handle, doesn't matter if you are 5% over.
There isn't a problem if you run within your weigh restraints.

Sounds so easy doesn't it? Two disabled kids kind of challenges that for us. I am content that my bus is safe, and I crank up the semi air to look as if I am light in the back. My choice.

Sorry for your problem but it's not an acceptable excuse, why not get a van with enough payload for your needs.

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[DDJC]

I find I get annoyed with these threads with people keep asking if anyone's been stopped for being over & people keep coming up with it's not a problem the chassis can handle, doesn't matter if you are 5% over.
There isn't a problem if you run within your weigh restraints.

Sorry for your problem but it's not an acceptable excuse, why not get a van with enough payload for your needs.

Because it would be too heavy for Mrs DDJC to drive and we are not blessed with infinite funds.
I am sorry but you will continue to get annoyed. This information is useful to many.

 

[WESTY66]

Because it would be too heavy for Mrs DDJC to drive and we are not blessed with infinite funds.
I am sorry but you will continue to get annoyed. This information is useful to many.

Why would the fact that Mrs DDJC can’t drive it be a problem? Is she the only driver (Genuine question) we’re at 5 ton and Mrs Westy cannot drive ours, but it’s not really a problem. As Lenny HB has Said it won’t be an excuse if you get pulled and you could be fined or worse have to dump something if they insist you get underweight.
I would welcome regular inspections on weights and legalities on vans and motorhomes, as with hgvs and if they’re unsafe slap em with a prohibition notice

 

[Lenny HB]

Because it would be too heavy for Mrs DDJC to drive and we are not blessed with infinite funds.
I am sorry but you will continue to get annoyed. This information is useful to many.

You could probably uprate your present van without too much cost.
If Mrs DDJC really needs to drive it should could take her C1.
There is absolutely no excuse for driving a vehicle that is overweight.
Like WESTY66 I think the more roadside checks they use the better.

 

[Mzracer]

It's the responsibility of every driver I say driver of the said vehicle not the owner to make sure he or she is legal, as regards to keep publishing this subject , if we are not careful every motorhome on the road will be pulled up and weighed causing untold inconvenience,do we need that , just keep legal .

Not a single person from the authorities will read or care about this message thread.

 

[Brian Thompson]

Have any of you funsters ever been stopped in the UK and had your weight checked. Just been on weighbridge and wondered if there is any leeway with regard to carrying extra food and fuel on a 3500 van weight

If you're really worried about getting pulled up for being overweight . Worth noting is a gallon of water weighs 8 lb and diesel 7lb . If you're running around with both tanks full that's a lot of weight

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[Lenny HB]

If you're really worried about getting pulled up for being overweight . Worth noting is a gallon of water weighs 8 lb and diesel 7lb . If you're running around with both tanks full that's a lot of weight

Wouldn't dream of running without full tanks but we still have 200 to 300 kg spare payload when full.

 

[DDJC]

Wouldn't dream of running without full tanks but we still have 200 to 300 kg spare payload when full.

Well, I may be making a massive assumption but you probably don't have to carry two disabled teenagers and the extra kit that we need to look after them Lenny!
I do take your point about it being illegal, but as I say, I am safe because it is only a matter of paying an up-plating company. It is, in my view a daft stricture, and needs to be removed. This is why I have little compunction in not adhering to it. Some may castigate me for it, but then I don't castigate them when they go past me doing 75 as I pootle along at 55.


Nevertheless, there is an easy solution to this, and that is for the government to be pragmatic. I have written to my MP before and just got an acknowledgement. I have just put together and sent off a few words to the secretary of state for the DVLA. I felt that it needed to be quick, as the turnover for minsters is a tad high at present. Anyway, as follows:
___

Mr and Mrs DDJC
987 Acacia Close
Tory Constituency
Kent

Mr Guy Opperman MP
Parliamentary Under Secretary of State
Department for Transport
Great Minster House
33 Horseferry Road
London
SW1P 4DR


Dear Mr Opperman,

I am writing to ask about the conclusions drawn, and further action following the August 2022 'Driving licensing review call for evidence'.

It seems clear from the summary of responses report of 6 June 2023, that the opinion is positive with about two thirds of respondents being in favour of a reversal to pre-1997 licence category awards, whereby drivers who passed a test, or already held a licence for Category B (up to 3500kg MAM) , were automatically given the then equivalent of C1 (up to 7500kg).

Then came the December report on the Perception of the industry on HGV driver shortages. The advantages and the number of supporters do seem to be overwhelmingly in favour of a reinstatement of the pre-1997 rules.

I responded to the call for evidence and stated that I am in full support of such a reinstatement. However, I was of the opinion that there should be a minimum age of 21 and a minimum of two years driving experience.

Following the Governments decision in 2021, to simply award BE to anyone with a B licence in 2021, by the expedient of a Statutory Instrument, it is clear that to update and backdate all B class licences to add C1 would be extremely easy to do. One wonders, therefore, why it has has not happened yet, following the 6 June 2022 report.

My interest in this is as a motorhomer. I have a C1 licence, but my wife who is six years younger than me does not. I know that the reason the change was introduced in 1997 was not due to a request by the EU, but more of a desire by the then government to show the EU that we were willing to harmonise.

Now that we have left the EU, and there is no need to harmonise our driving licence codes, why have we not simply reverted to the pre-1997 codes? It seems almost prejudiced against younger people insofar that they are not given the same driving permissions that older people were given. Frankly, I am surprised that it has never been challenged in court, as being unfair due to a protected characteristic.

So, my questions are:

1. Has there been any progress in making such an obviously sensible change to revert and award C1 to B cat drivers, or has it stalled? If it has stalled, why has it stalled, as it was proven in 2021 to be an extremely easy change to make.

2. If the Government opinion is to not proceed with such a move, has the Department ever considered adding motorhomes (up to a set weight if necessary) to the list of exempted vehicles? To see 'project vehicles for schools' on the exempted list seems very odd.

3. Has the government considered a middle ground, whereby the MAM of B Category is increased to 4500kg, or 5000kg or similar?

I would finish by suggesting that in these challenging political times, such a popular move would surely be a good thing.

Yours sincerely,


Dave, the adult male bit of DDJC

___

I might have changed a few personal details ...

 

[Baileyandchrissie]

By prohibition do they mean drive no further until unloaded to correct weight?

 

[SpeedyDux]

The belief that a motorhome being overloaded suddenly makes it dangerous doesn’t stack up. You can have them uprated without any works to the brakes or steering required. The base vehicles are designed for many different loading combination’s

The FIat X2/90 handbook data only goes up to 4,200 Kg. My interpretation is that 4,200 Kg was the maximum MTPLM design limit for all chassis variants including commercial and MH ones.

In my Rapido handbook the advice is to travel with only 50 litres in the fresh water tank, i.e. half full. Not because a full tank would push it close to or above the 3,500 Kg weight limit. I suspect that is because a full 100 litre water tank could result in uneven load distribution, that might affect stability in an emergency situation.

 

[DDJC]

If you're really worried about getting pulled up for being overweight . Worth noting is a gallon of water weighs 8 lb and diesel 7lb . If you're running around with both tanks full that's a lot of weight

Water is always empty. Grey is always drained. If full it would add 200kilos.

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[DDJC]

The FIat X2/90 handbook data only goes up to 4,200 Kg. My interpretation is that 4,200 Kg was the maximum MTPLM design limit for all chassis variants including commercial and MH ones.

In my Rapido handbook the advice is to travel with only 50 litres in the fresh water tank, i.e. half full. Not because a full tank would push it close to or above the 3,500 Kg weith limit. I suspect that is because a full 100 litre water tank could result in uneven load distribution, that might affect stability in an emergency situation.

Speedy, you are a legal dude. Would you see any discrimination grounds or anything prejudicial to the age issues of the 1997 removal of C1 rights, now that we have left the EU?