MOBY GOES TO TURKEY. A tam and pups adventure.

Helen Ariel said:
Personally I would say don't take him. He looks very happy and healthy and will have a lot of freedom, space and his family pack. You are currently uncertain about your future plans and so is it really best for him to be riding around with 3 other dogs in a van and then potentially a small flat in Scotland. Not judging you just my opinion. I've had my heart strings tugged by a beautiful dog this last 2 days in Morocco. She's so affectionate and gentle but I've watched her going about her day getting food and cuddles off so many people and snoozing in the sun that I think I would not be 'saving her' despite the fact she's clearly had pups.
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Yep wait till you've been in Morocco a few more days and see the ones with missing legs , eyes , dragging broken legs behind them , riddled with fleas ,worms etc . The locals hate them ,throw stones at them etc.. sure you will see the local businesses in the tourist area pretend to care about them in front of the tourists but I learned quick it's an act. Same with the "friendliness " it mostly masks the wanting something from you.


Morocco really got to me with their mistreatment of animals not just dogs but donkeys camels etc . Personally every dog that can be saved from that country is a blessing.



Back to Greece and yep they do tend to be looked after by the locals as far as they get food etc. But not many other than charities will bother getting any of them vaccinated or neutered etc .. so they keep breading , none of the stray dogs here are old. Mostly because they don't live that long before they either get diseases or run over etc.

I imagine all the other pups will have been rescued by other folk in vans , maybe the odd one will have been taken by a local to be tied to a rope in some yard to scare off would be theives. I see a lot of dogs tied up in yards with no one around , sure they might get fed but it's not a great life.

In an ideal world I'd love to take that mum dog to a vet and have her sterilised so she can't have another litter as soon as she comes in to heat again . But I'm not sure where the nearest vet is or how I'd get her there then return her to the streets.

The little one though is young enough to be saved from a life of maybe eating each day and maybe not being hit by a car etc. Once they get to adults and bigger their chances are dramatically reduced. I'm not saying these strays aren't happy in their own way. They've known nothing else ... but they could


And I'm sure if given the choice which they would choose.
 
Chris said:
I think he means the pup’s Mum Tam (y)
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Ah OK I thought they meant my mum and wondered why. I'm sure she'd think I was mad considering it but she'd also understand , she rescued her fair share of cats when I was growing up.


But the pups mum has given me lots of cuddles today ... I think they are smarter than we give them credit for. I think she probably knows herself how tough it is being a homeless dog . She certainly enjoyed me giving her pets today. Something they don't always get .

They all chase cars and bark so a lot of people misunderstand them and are scared of them ... where a lot of the time they just want to be near folk .
 
Northernraider said:
Yep wait till you've been in Morocco a few more days and see the ones with missing legs , eyes , dragging broken legs behind them , riddled with fleas ,worms etc . The locals hate them ,throw stones at them etc.. sure you will see the local businesses in the tourist area pretend to care about them in front of the tourists but I learned quick it's an act. Same with the "friendliness " it mostly masks the wanting something from you.


Morocco really got to me with their mistreatment of animals not just dogs but donkeys camels etc . Personally every dog that can be saved from that country is a blessing.



Back to Greece and yep they do tend to be looked after by the locals as far as they get food etc. But not many other than charities will bother getting any of them vaccinated or neutered etc .. so they keep breading , none of the stray dogs here are old. Mostly because they don't live that long before they either get diseases or run over etc.

I imagine all the other pups will have been rescued by other folk in vans , maybe the odd one will have been taken by a local to be tied to a rope in some yard to scare off would be theives. I see a lot of dogs tied up in yards with no one around , sure they might get fed but it's not a great life.

In an ideal world I'd love to take that mum dog to a vet and have her sterilised so she can't have another litter as soon as she comes in to heat again . But I'm not sure where the nearest vet is or how I'd get her there then return her to the streets.

The little one though is young enough to be saved from a life of maybe eating each day and maybe not being hit by a car etc. Once they get to adults and bigger their chances are dramatically reduced. I'm not saying these strays aren't happy in their own way. They've known nothing else ... but they could


And I'm sure if given the choice which they would choose.
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Certainly not what we've seen so far in Morocco and we've driven through some very untouristy bits watching everyone slow down for the dogs sunbathing or crossing the road. One place I watched this old, scruffy dog standing outside a pizza place. He was fixedly staring at the shop front wagging his tail non stop and then we went on our way and hour later we were back that way and he was chowing down on a pizza, the next day we saw him snoozing in the sun a couple of doors down waiting for the pizza place to open 🤣. It wasn't a particularly touristy spot. Also none of the dogs I've seen are fearful or aggressive which I'm sure they would be if being abused. I'm not saying there aren't dogs that are suffering here/there or even in the UK just that not every dog you see is and I certainly think that helping charities who spay dogs would be very beneficial. Maybe inland Morocco is worse but I reckon things must be changing culturally as I've seen Moroccan people walking dogs too.

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Gina M said:
There are some bastards here too. A man on the news tonight took his dog and her 12 puppies (XL bully) from Liverpool to Scotland as they are not yet banned there. He "gave" them to a foster carer, likely story, anyway the pups mum didn't even have a name:cry:
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Yeah sadly a lot of animal cruelty in the UK too I think it just happens more behind closed doors and often in subtle ways like leaving a pack animal on it's own all day. I tried to become an RSPCA officer when I was just out of uni. Got to the interview stage where they put you in a room with an actor who is playing an animal abuser and I ended up crying so decided upon reflection I wouldn't hack it as an officer. So glad I didn't I'd probably be seriously depressed by now 😭
 
Helen Ariel said:
Certainly not what we've seen so far in Morocco and we've driven through some very untouristy bits watching everyone slow down for the dogs sunbathing or crossing the road. One place I watched this old, scruffy dog standing outside a pizza place. He was fixedly staring at the shop front wagging his tail non stop and then we went on our way and hour later we were back that way and he was chowing down on a pizza, the next day we saw him snoozing in the sun a couple of doors down waiting for the pizza place to open 🤣. It wasn't a particularly touristy spot. Also none of the dogs I've seen are fearful or aggressive which I'm sure they would be if being abused. I'm not saying there aren't dogs that are suffering here/there or even in the UK just that not every dog you see is and I certainly think that helping charities who spay dogs would be very beneficial. Maybe inland Morocco is worse but I reckon things must be changing culturally as I've seen Moroccan people walking dogs too.
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In a month or two you'll see them shooting the strays.


I'm guessing you didn't follow my thread last year.

I was ready to leave Morocco after a week initially. Then I decided that instead I'd try to feed as many of them as I could . The big tourist places are a little bit better .... at least on the surface but even then the locals try to guage if you're an animal lover or not before they react. Countless times we had locals chasing off strays and throwing stones at them till we told them to stop ...then they'd make half arsed attempts to be nice to them. Had kids and women trying to throw stones at my own dogs at times and had to personally take ropes and banding wire off dogs necks that had been tied up in places etc.

And then there's the donkeys, cuts and bleeding sores , malnourished etc.

Nah I'm afraid in 2 months I saw more animal cruelty in that country than I've ever seen ...its actually scarred me enough I'm not sure if I'll ever return.


P.s yes you'll see some Moroccans walking designer dogs , mostly well known breeds , they don't class the street dogs the same .

I saw quite a few chuawawas, huskies, etc . Ones they consider a status symbol.

But the wild ones , you will see and hear them being shot around the end of February/March... happens every year from what I heard.
 
Northernraider said:
In a month or two you'll see them shooting the strays.


I'm guessing you didn't follow my thread last year.

I was ready to leave Morocco after a week initially. Then I decided that instead I'd try to feed as many of them as I could . The big tourist places are a little bit better .... at least on the surface but even then the locals try to guage if you're an animal lover or not before they react. Countless times we had locals chasing off strays and throwing stones at them till we told them to stop ...then they'd make half arsed attempts to be nice to them. Had kids and women trying to throw stones at my own dogs at times and had to personally take ropes and banding wire off dogs necks that had been tied up in places etc.

And then there's the donkeys, cuts and bleeding sores , malnourished etc.

Nah I'm afraid in 2 months I saw more animal cruelty in that country than I've ever seen ...its actually scarred me enough I'm not sure if I'll ever return.
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Pretty sure I did follow it. Anyway it's not really the point I was trying to make I was talking about an individual circumstance and that you may be better able to help more dogs once you've worked out what you are doing rather than a rash decision when a lot has happened but as I said just my opinion.
 
Helen Ariel said:
Pretty sure I did follow it. Anyway it's not really the point I was trying to make I was talking about an individual circumstance and that you may be better able to help more dogs once you've worked out what you are doing rather than a rash decision when a lot has happened but as I said just my opinion.
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Yep I get that , and to be honest I said earlier it's not really a case of me saving him. There's a good chance if I don't then maybe another van that comes through here would. Like other years I've been here I've seen quite a few campers with young dogs/pups that they've adopted here. I've seen others myself too that I've fed ,petted etc and obviously haven't picked them up and can't pick up every dog I meet. I just happen to like him ...kinda when I first saw ela I immediately liked the look of her and her nature etc. And everyone that meets her says what a lovely friendly dog she is.

I think every dog deserves love and a bit of affection...not just to survive.

Yeah it's true I have absolutely no idea what lies ahead with me , I've no idea what I'll do next . A month or so ago I was more inclined to be buying a flat back in Scotland but this month its way down my list of things I want to do. My main hopes are still a bit land somewhere . I'm not sure I'll even return to Scotland this year to be honest ... I need to return to the UK for my mot in july/August but I think it will be a short return to sort mot, change address details for licence, passport etc then either off to Spain and Portugal for next winter and maybe some land hunting or some other adventure.


But yeah I do get your point and I appreciate an alternative view on the pup , as said I've not decided either way yet.

But I already have 3 that will factor in to what I decide to do longterm, can't change that so realistically another one probably wouldn't make much difference lol
 
When I spent a lot of time in my home port of Poros in the Saronic in Greece I was friendly with a couple: the wife Joan ran a charity whose main purpose was to neuter cats.

They got young vets from UK, and elsewhere, to come down - they had to pay their flights but the charity paid their accommodation and they put in about a 6-8 hour day. So it was partly a holiday for them.

I helped in rounding up the cats and transporting them to the 'surgery' and then back to their neighbourhood for release.

The charity did not get into dogs, which could have been more difficult.

Sadly Joan died of cancer a couple of years later and then I left Poros, so do not know whether the charity is still going. Her husband's phone is now dead.

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Helen Ariel said:
Yeah sadly a lot of animal cruelty in the UK too I think it just happens more behind closed doors and often in subtle ways like leaving a pack animal on it's own all day. I tried to become an RSPCA officer when I was just out of uni. Got to the interview stage where they put you in a room with an actor who is playing an animal abuser and I ended up crying so decided upon reflection I wouldn't hack it as an officer. So glad I didn't I'd probably be seriously depressed by now 😭
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My pup I have in my avatar before he came to me was left for 12 hours a day on his own, he chewed the window sills, the skirting boards and he found a good way to play with a cushion, chew the zip then give it a good rodgering!! he is fine now I have had him for nearly two years and he is with me all day, he is very affectionate, calm and confident and he loves his brother the mongrel terrier I took on when my mum died unexpectantly. We love them both but I have to admit I would still love a Labradoodle like my boy who died in 2021 :cry:
 
Gina M said:
My pup I have in my avatar before he came to me was left for 12 hours a day on his own, he chewed the window sills, the skirting boards and he found a good way to play with a cushion, chew the zip then give it a good rodgering!! he was only 9 months old and was more sex than anyone else I know !! he is fine now I have had him for nearly two years and he is with me all day, he is very affectionate, calm and confident and he loves his brother the mongrel terrier I took on when my mum died unexpectantly. We love them both but I have to admit I would still love a Labradoodle like my boy who died in 2021 :cry:
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edited to say how young these dogs start to have sex!!
 
nicholsong said:
When I spent a lot of time in my home port of Poros in the Saronic in Greece I was friendly with a couple: the wife Joan ran a charity whose main purpose was to neuter cats.

They got young vets from UK, and elsewhere, to come down - they had to pay their flights but the charity paid their accommodation and they put in about a 6-8 hour day. So it was partly a holiday for them.

I helped in rounding up the cats and transporting them to the 'surgery' and then back to their neighbourhood for release.

The charity did not get into dogs, which could have been more difficult.

Sadly Joan died of cancer a couple of years later and then I left Poros, so do not know whether the charity is still going. Her husband's phone is now dead.
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I was chatting to a woman yesterday in epidavros who was feeding the stray cats there , she said she lived 14km away but she drives to a few villages daily feeding the cats. They have a charity ..its on Facebook, they've neutered 54 cats just in the last 2 months she said. I reckon there was easily 40 or 40 cats just in epidavros. Never seen any stray dogs there this time but last time I was there Jackie befriended a small stray dog there and was heartbroken to leave it.



Speaking of Jackie I was talking to her today , she was meant to be in Morocco this winter but she bought a new van back in the summer , a 6 metre 1 year old vw crafter with only 10000 miles on it. Put it straight in to a converter to have it built. Got it back at the end of November and it broke down on the way home. Its been in vw garage in Swansea ever since . So she's still in Wales but currently vanless.
 
Figaro said:
I think you've already made your mind up :LOL:
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Lol I honestly haven't... but the local boy racer that's racing up and down this road like an arse and doing handbrake turns behind my van causing all the strays to start barking isn't helping. You'd think in these wee villages boy racers wouldn't exsist but it seems they do.

That's twice the arse has been up now in the last 15 minutes . If he comes back I'll be going out there. Which is annoying as I'm in feckn bed
 
Helen Ariel said:
Yeah sadly a lot of animal cruelty in the UK too I think it just happens more behind closed doors and often in subtle ways like leaving a pack animal on it's own all day. I tried to become an RSPCA officer when I was just out of uni. Got to the interview stage where they put you in a room with an actor who is playing an animal abuser and I ended up crying so decided upon reflection I wouldn't hack it as an officer. So glad I didn't I'd probably be seriously depressed by now 😭
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I couldn't do it as I would cry so much and cause more distress for the animal. I was crying last night when a dog was found by the charity Drone to Home it had been lost for 12 days and was found caught up by its lead in a bush It was curled up tightly to stay warm and that is what saved its life I think (y)

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Northernraider said:
I was chatting to a woman yesterday in epidavros who was feeding the stray cats there , she said she lived 14km away but she drives to a few villages daily feeding the cats. They have a charity ..its on Facebook, they've neutered 54 cats just in the last 2 months she said. I reckon there was easily 40 or 40 cats just in epidavros. Never seen any stray dogs there this time but last time I was there Jackie befriended a small stray dog there and was heartbroken to leave it.



Speaking of Jackie I was talking to her today , she was meant to be in Morocco this winter but she bought a new van back in the summer , a 6 metre 1 year old vw crafter with only 10000 miles on it. Put it straight in to a converter to have it built. Got it back at the end of November and it broke down on the way home. Its been in vw garage in Swansea ever since . So she's still in Wales but currently vanless.
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I was going to say I bet she’s glad she’s got rid of that little cramped VW camper but maybe she isn’t now.
 
Northernraider said:
I was chatting to a woman yesterday in epidavros who was feeding the stray cats there , she said she lived 14km away but she drives to a few villages daily feeding the cats. They have a charity ..its on Facebook, they've neutered 54 cats just in the last 2 months she said. I reckon there was easily 40 or 40 cats just in epidavros. Never seen any stray dogs there this time but last time I was there Jackie befriended a small stray dog there and was heartbroken to leave it.



Speaking of Jackie I was talking to her today , she was meant to be in Morocco this winter but she bought a new van back in the summer , a 6 metre 1 year old vw crafter with only 10000 miles on it. Put it straight in to a converter to have it built. Got it back at the end of November and it broke down on the way home. Its been in vw garage in Swansea ever since . So she's still in Wales but currently vanless.
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I love that you are talking to Jackie again Tam you were good friends(y)
 
Northernraider said:
I was chatting to a woman yesterday in epidavros who was feeding the stray cats there , she said she lived 14km away but she drives to a few villages daily feeding the cats. They have a charity ..its on Facebook, they've neutered 54 cats just in the last 2 months she said. I reckon there was easily 40 or 40 cats just in epidavros. Never seen any stray dogs there this time but last time I was there Jackie befriended a small stray dog there and was heartbroken to leave it.



Speaking of Jackie I was talking to her today , she was meant to be in Morocco this winter but she bought a new van back in the summer , a 6 metre 1 year old vw crafter with only 10000 miles on it. Put it straight in to a converter to have it built. Got it back at the end of November and it broke down on the way home. Its been in vw garage in Swansea ever since . So she's still in Wales but currently vanless.
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I was recently thinking of your friend Jackie, so pleased to get news, but sorry VW is a problem. Wish her well.
 
CazPaul said:
I was going to say I bet she’s glad she’s got rid of that little cramped VW camper but maybe she isn’t now.
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Gina M said:
I love that you are talking to Jackie again Tam you were good friends(y)
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nicholsong said:
I was recently thinking of your friend Jackie, so pleased to get news, but sorry VW is a problem. Wish her well.
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Aye I send her a message every so often ... she ain't great with replies though . Last time I spoke to her was just before mum's funeral. She'd told me she was going back to Morocco this winter.

But I messaged her a few days back to show her one of the places we'd stayed in Greece last time and asked her how Morocco was ...and she replied today telling me about the camper. Its a shame that though. Not even used it yet and its broken down

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Gina M said:
Tam, you have to do the right thing for him. take him, 4 dogs no harder to take care of than 3 :cry:
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bellabee said:
Agree entirely. Your dogs are your life, and you give them a wonderful life. We had four dogs, at one time, and it was good.
I don't think I'd go for more than four though. 🙂
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You pair are a terrible influence.


I haven't made up my mind , I'll see him again tomorrow on our walk and take it from there. If I don't see him well that will be a sign in itself. If I do then I'll see how my 3 are with him and if he comes to say hello again.
 
Northernraider said:
You pair are a terrible influence.


I haven't made up my mind , I'll see him again tomorrow on our walk and take it from there. If I don't see him well that will be a sign in itself. If I do then I'll see how my 3 are with him and if he comes to say hello again.
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you are right, let fate decide Tam(y):h:
 
You know you are going to love him though and he has no choice, he is meant for you :h:
 

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