Lots of FLT at La Zenia (SE Spain)

[jumar]

If there's signs on every street saying "solo tourismos " "cars only" and you're in a camper then they can fine you. That's how they've got round it in castellon, every street has these signs now

More than 20 years ago we parked on a road adjacent to the beach in La Cala to visit the local market, when we got back to the van we had a ticket, I saw the Police local putting ticket on another camper, off I shot to confront him, something I often did.
Sorry Sir said the Police officer, I just love an respectful approach, it is not a fine, its an advisory notice, you are not allowed to park a camper within 300 metre of the beach.....Local Byelaws...

 

[Lenny HB]

Sorry Sir said the Police officer, I just love an respectful approach, it is not a fine, its an advisory notice, you are not allowed to park a camper within 300 metre of the beach.....Local Byelaws...

A couple of times we were moved on in Greece, the police were very polite & friendly.

 

[Northernraider]

A couple of times we were moved on in Greece, the police were very polite & friendly.

I find they're usually polite everywhere bar the UK lol

 

[jumar]

I find they're usually polite everywhere bar the UK lol

I cannot recall ever being moved on during our 26 years in Spain by a Law enforcement officer...
An environment officer Yes...but I understood his concern and respected his authority...

 

[Northernraider]

I cannot recall ever being moved on during our 26 years in Spain by a Law enforcement officer...
An environment officer Yes...but I understood his concern and respected his authority...

I think I've been asked to move maybe 3 times in total in Spain since 2018. As I said they are now finding new ways to get round that parking versus camping rule ..

So many places now with this 5 metre max rule...which is rarely enforced at the minute .
Or the "solo turismo" signs that are all dated 2024.

I don't know why they don't put dates on some of these signs .

If they are going to turn a blind eye over winter then make the sign read no motorhomes from 31/03 to 01/10 or something. And then just fine the folk that are camping and leave the ones that aren't.

There clearly is far more campers and motorhomes coming to Spain over winter than the facilities cater for. No matter how it's looked at those motorhomes are putting some money in to the country even if only in fuel and grocery shopping . If the spaces aren't used by anyone else over the winter then overall it isn't doing any harm in the grand scheme of things.

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[Carpmart]

And they are all welcome as long as they're not camping. Parking is perfectly fine. Sleeping in the motorhome is perfectly fine. Turning the area into their own campsite is not ok!

90% of the free parkers are perfectly behaved. It's the 10% that is ruining it for everyone else, or is in danger of ruining it for everyone else!

 

[Northernraider]

And they are all welcome as long as they're not camping. Parking is perfectly fine. Sleeping in the motorhome is perfectly fine. Turning the area into their own campsite is not ok!

90% of the free parkers are perfectly behaved. It's the 10% that is ruining it for everyone else, or is in danger of ruining it for everyone else!

Well we/they are sometimes Harvey, unless there's signs saying otherwise which sadly there are more appearing....its definitely changing. The times I've been asked to move I've not been camping I've just been parked.

The idiots with all the crap outside drive me crazy , it would be good if all the other folk who were just parked all got together and told the ones breaking the rules to clear off. .. but that'll never happen, if one person pulls them up they just get told to sod off.

More self policing is needed I think from Al Nationalities.

 

[gus-lopez]

Or the "solo turismo" signs that are all dated 2024.

& technically & legally motorhomes come under that.
'turismo' is taken to me a car but legally according to the Guardia Civile ir is any vehicle that is designed to transport people up to 9 including conductor, & does not carry commercial merchandise.

Here;
La clave para distinguir entre un vehículo mixto y un turismo radica en su capacidad de carga y configuración interior. Mientras que los vehículos mixtos ofrecen tanto espacio de carga como asientos para pasajeros, los turismos están diseñados exclusivamente para el transporte de personas


& translated

The key to distinguishing between a mixed vehicle and a passenger car lies in its load capacity and interior configuration. While mixed vehicles offer both cargo space and passenger seats, passenger cars are designed exclusively for the transport of people

which is anything that cannot carry legally ,merchandise

 

[jumar]

Well we/they are sometimes Harvey, unless there's signs saying otherwise which sadly there are more appearing....its definitely changing. The times I've been asked to move I've not been camping I've just been parked.

The idiots with all the crap outside drive me crazy , it would be good if all the other folk who were just parked all got together and told the ones breaking the rules to clear off. .. but that'll never happen, if one person pulls them up they just get told to sod off.

More self policing is needed I think from Al Nationalities.

That's never going to happen Tam...on a 32 place camperstop a few weeks back ours was the only Spanish registered camper...and perhaps the only occupants who knew anything about the rules. The rest were from other locations, who either knew or didn't know the rules, but chose to ignore them..
Quite a funny brief meeting with a Spanish late arrival...he found a vacant place....walked around and headed towards me....he then said.."Are we the only Spanish here"?....."No" I replied, "You are, I'm English but live in Murcia"...

 

[Northernraider]

& technically & legally motorhomes come under that.
'turismo' is taken to me a car but legally according to the Guardia Civile ir is any vehicle that is designed to transport people up to 9 including conductor, & does not carry commercial merchandise.

Here;
La clave para distinguir entre un vehículo mixto y un turismo radica en su capacidad de carga y configuración interior. Mientras que los vehículos mixtos ofrecen tanto espacio de carga como asientos para pasajeros, los turismos están diseñados exclusivamente para el transporte de personas


& translated

The key to distinguishing between a mixed vehicle and a passenger car lies in its load capacity and interior configuration. While mixed vehicles offer both cargo space and passenger seats, passenger cars are designed exclusively for the transport of people

which is anything that cannot carry legally ,merchandise

Well I'm not confident enough to argue that with the police Richard.....I just said OK ill move.

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[Northernraider]

That's never going to happen Tam...on a 32 place camperstop a few weeks back ours was the only Spanish registered camper...and perhaps the only occupants who knew anything about the rules. The rest were from other locations, who either knew or didn't know the rules, but chose to ignore them..
Quite a funny brief meeting with a Spanish late arrival...he found a vacant place....walked around and headed towards me....he then said.."Are we the only Spanish here"?....."No" I replied, "You are, I'm English but live in Murcia"...

Here's another one at a spot I just looked at in Denia before moving on as totally unsuitable.
And park4night needs to stop deleting the wrong comments. I've had comments removed before for pointing out selfish behaviour yet they leave comments like the one saying 6 vans there for 10 days yet 24 hours is the limit

 

[Just smiffy]

I cannot recall ever being moved on during our 26 years in Spain by a Law enforcement officer...
An environment officer Yes...but I understood his concern and respected his authority...

I’ve never been asked to move in the 10 years I’ve been motorhoming either, I think its how you park somewhere, being respectful and looking around to see if your going to piss someone off by parking there, if your going to park where you stick out like a sore thumb you’ll going to get noticed…

Common sense really but as we know….

 

[royandsharont]

And they are all welcome as long as they're not camping. Parking is perfectly fine. Sleeping in the motorhome is perfectly fine. Turning the area into their own campsite is not ok!

90% of the free parkers are perfectly behaved. It's the 10% that is ruining it for everyone else, or is in danger of ruining it for everyone else!

I must admit I did think that sleeping in the Motorhome parked on a street amounted to camping rather than just parking, on the basis the van was being used for its intended purpose, camping. Having chairs out etc just reinforces the camping aspect for those looking at it from the outside.

Since all the problems with the local police ticketing people in car parks etc, and I can understand why they do it, I have started displaying a sign on the screen explaining I camp on official campsites so will be on one locally, or on my way there, and I’m parked up shopping or sightseeing etc. I hope it may just stop someone from ticketing me thinking I am actually camping

 

[Northernraider]

I must admit I did think that sleeping in the Motorhome parked on a street amounted to camping rather than just parking, on the basis the van was being used for its intended purpose, camping. Having chairs out etc just reinforces the camping aspect for those looking at it from the outside.

Since all the problems with the local police ticketing people in car parks etc, and I can understand why they do it, I have started displaying a sign on the screen explaining I camp on official campsites so will be on one locally, or on my way there, and I'm parked up shopping or sightseeing etc. I hope it may just stop someone from ticketing me thinking I am actually camping

Spanish law however is different from UK law. The UK claims you are camping even if everything is inside. The Spanish see that as being parked and personally I would agree with the Spanish. Camping does not mean sleeping or cooking in a vehicle or every lorry would then be camping.


What I do inside the confinement of my home is my business not the police or council etc.

You're allowed to park in Spain. But free camping isn't always allowed.

Personally that rule should be worldwide. With exceptions made where no harm is done.


In Spain I think fines are given out very rarely ..they mostly just ask folk to move.

In the UK they are desperate to fine people for anything nowadays .

 

[jumartoo]

The Spanish rules are very fair, but some people just won't follow them. Eventually I can see them being changed to our detriment with no overnight parking anywhere other than official sites.

Already places we've parked for years have no overnight parking signs.

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[nicholsong]

The Spanish rules are very fair, but some people just won't follow them. Eventually I can see them being changed to our detriment with no overnight parking anywhere other than official sites.

Already places we've parked for years have no overnight parking signs.

That would need a national law but aren't parking regulations delegated to the provinces?

It would make my decision and that of many others, whether to visit Spain very easy - not to visit.

 

[jumartoo]

That would need a national law but aren't parking regulations delegated to the provinces?

It would make my decision and that of many others, whether to visit Spain very easy - not to visit.

The national law has just, fairly recently, been implemented. That's the law about parking not camping. Local authorities can make their own bylaws if they feel that its necessary. If they decide no sleeping in a vehicle within 500 m of the coast, as long as they apply it to ALL vehicles, they can implement it. Of course that impacts on motorhomes/campervans more than cars.

I'll try to find the regs that Murcia passed, even though they've not yet implemented them.

 

[jumartoo]

The free camping section of the Murcian regs.

Article 4. Free camping

1. Free camping is understood to be that which takes place occasionally, even respecting property rights or land use, using any means, with the intention of staying and spending the night in places other than the establishments regulated by this decree.

2. For reasons of protection and safeguarding of existing natural and environmental resources, free camping by means of motorhomes, caravans, campers and similar vehicles will not be permitted outside the establishments covered by this decree.

3. Free camping using tents and similar facilities may be carried out under the following circumstances:

a) Maximum 3 tents or similar.

b) That it occurs more than 500 meters from an urban center or more than 5 kilometers from a campsite or area for motorhomes, caravans, campers and similar.

c) With a maximum duration of 3 days.

d) On land where, in accordance with Article 5.1, accommodations subject to this decree may be installed.

4. Unless traffic and vehicle circulation regulations or municipal ordinances indicate otherwise, motorhomes, caravans, campers and similar vehicles are deemed not to be camped if they are stopped or parked in authorised areas on highways, urban and interurban roads, when their perimeter is not exceeded or expanded by transforming or deploying elements thereof, they are supported on their own wheels without using wedges and do not spill substances or waste onto the road.

 

[Wildbill]

Just spent since 19th of December mutch of it free Parkin off site parking.
Never got moved on farly un eventful trip for almost three months but did come across a lot of what we call total free loding tossers dumping black waste at side of road.
Filling up street litter bins with there rubbish
And that was just British I seen in one place
Seen bags filed with poo on one place we were dumped.
chare out tables bbq out wine out music playing
Seen it all on our trip.
Many Germans French Belgian who were just as bad but the worst I seen were British
Pigs
WB

 

[Barriesimpson]

If there's signs on every street saying "solo tourismos " "cars only" and you're in a camper then they can fine you. That's how they've got round it in castellon, every street has these signs now

Not exactly, 'Tourismo' is the classification of the vehicle, and many motorhomes are 'tourismos'. The problem is the size, if your van does not fit into a parking space (one, not occupying two) then you cannot park there.

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[jumartoo]

And a longer version

https://lavozdemazarron.com/index.php/noticias/5530-asi-es-la-ordenanza-municipal-que-regula-el-estacionamiento-de-autocaravanas

 

[Northernraider]

Just spent since 19th of December mutch of it free Parkin off site parking.
Never got moved on farly un eventful trip for almost three months but did come across a lot of what we call total free loding tossers dumping black waste at side of road.
Filling up street litter bins with there rubbish
And that was just British I seen in one place
Seen bags filed with poo on one place we were dumped.
chare out tables bbq out wine out music playing
Seen it all on our trip.
Many Germans French Belgian who were just as bad but the worst I seen were British
Pigs
WB

You must have been going to places whee mostly brits go then bill. As I and many others seem to be noticing very few brits but mostly German, Dutch and French in that order behaving badly. .. I think I've seen maybe 10% brit vans in comparison to German and Dutch.
I'm not saying brits don't do it because they definitely do but they are a minority in comparison .

I'm always on free spots , 365 days a year

 

[Northernraider]

Not exactly, 'Tourismo' is the classification of the vehicle, and many motorhomes are 'tourismos'. The problem is the size, if your van does not fit into a parking space (one, not occupying two) then you cannot park there.

I can only say what the police told me barrie . Around castellon now there are signs on every street stating "solo tourismos" there's no bays it's just parallel street parking along the roadside but police circulate and move all campers that weren't in the very busy packed aire . I got away with one night but the second night I was moved and he said solo tourismos meant cars only....no parcar autocaravana aqui was his words ....and he said that applied to all of castellon.

Can't argue with them and risk a fine so I moved.


These solo tourismos signs are now in seville too where I parked at plaza de espana. They're up and down the streets at torremolinos where I used to park and I got asked to move there too last week . They do have marked bays there now and signs saying max 5 metres . The 5 metre signs are also appearing in lots of places . Before if there were no signs you could argue the point. But now there is a sign what can you do?

Difficult to argue if you aren't a fluent speaker .

I can only state the differences I've seen between trips , 2 years ago those signs weren't in castellon, torremolinos etc .. I'd never seen a solo tourismos sign before this trip . From the dates on the back they were put up in 2024.


That's the problem though as I Said before. Many only really apply in the summer months ,over winter they aren't enforced but wouldn't it be better to just add dates on the signs saying from April to end September or something. That way the locals, the mh owners and the police would all know the rule and consequences etc .

They will never stop the influx of motorhomes that descend on Spain the same way they'll never stop them on the nc500 ....but the problem isn't being solved its just being moved around .

None of the restrictions will ever force me on to a campsite , I'll just find somewhere else without a sign to park .. as will thousands of others.

But instead of having 2 or 3 vans scattered around in an area you end up with dozens grouped together because its one of the few places either with no signs or it's not enforced ...often because of the sheer numbers involved.

I've even now started to be wary in Spain if I'm the only van there as you're more likely to be moved on than if there's dozens it seems

 

[Northernraider]

That's never going to happen Tam...on a 32 place camperstop a few weeks back ours was the only Spanish registered camper...and perhaps the only occupants who knew anything about the rules. The rest were from other locations, who either knew or didn't know the rules, but chose to ignore them..
Quite a funny brief meeting with a Spanish late arrival...he found a vacant place....walked around and headed towards me....he then said.."Are we the only Spanish here"?....."No" I replied, "You are, I'm English but live in Murcia"...

I think the Germans Dutch etc all know the rules ...I just think they choose to ignore them . Some think they're special others just think if they get told off they'll move etc. Most just don't care

 

[jumartoo]

Some years ago when we lived in the Aguilas area, motorhome free parking was regulated more even when there were a lot less motorhomes around. I remember one day going to run on the coast and seeing (shock horror) about 15 motorhomes parked on Playa de Cocedores . Compare that to the recent 200 or so that, allegedly, have just been moved from there.

I don't know why the regulations were relaxed, it would have prevented the headache that the authorities are now dealing with.

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[Northernraider]

Some years ago when we lived in the Aguilas area, motorhome free parking was regulated more even when there were a lot less motorhomes around. I remember one day going to run on the coast and seeing (shock horror) about 15 motorhomes parked on Playa de Cocedores . Compare that to the recent 200 or so that, allegedly, have just been moved from there.

I don't know why the regulations were relaxed, it would have prevented the headache that the authorities are now dealing with.

Because I think they know that regardless of the hassles those few hundred thousand motorhomes are paying money in to Spain. There is no denying that.


Unless they moved the vans from playa de cocedores yesterday there were hundreds there when I drove through the other day . The parking spot by the big blue roundabout with the boat in the middle at aguilas where its normally banned also had around 50-70 vans in it.....oh and mercadonna was a no go lol as at least 20/30 Parked on the roadside there. I wanted shopping but I'd have had to walk about half a Mile with the 2 bags and a 20kg bag of dog food so I thought sod that.

The proper aire that was flooded was understandably completely empty and looked like a mud bath .

 

[Barriesimpson]

Can't argue with them and risk a fine so I moved.

Yes I understand that. I would and do argue with them, but that's for another thread

Difficult to argue if you aren't a fluent speaker .

Of course, that is perfectly normal.

I can only state the differences I've seen between trips , 2 years ago those signs weren't in castellon, torremolinos etc .. I'd never seen a solo tourismos sign before this trip . From the dates on the back they were put up in 2024.

A lot of that is happening here now, the various associations are organising protests across the islands which do seem to be taking effect. The local Government have included the phenomenon in their agenda and have promised solutions, they will class motor homing, caravanning and camping activity as 'Actividad touristica de interés para Canarias' - an interesting touristic activity for the Canary Islands, which hopefully will mean more installations and spaces for us. We will see.

That's the problem though as I Said before. Many only really apply in the summer months ,over winter they aren't enforced but wouldn't it be better to just add dates on the signs saying from April to end September or something. That way the locals, the mh owners and the police would all know the rule and consequences etc .

I agree.

They will never stop the influx of motorhomes that descend on Spain the same way they'll never stop them on the nc500 ....but the problem isn't being solved its just being moved around .

True.

None of the restrictions will ever force me on to a campsite , I'll just find somewhere else without a sign to park .. as will thousands of others.

That's fine all the time there are other places.

I've even now started to be wary in Spain if I'm the only van there as you're more likely to be moved on than if there's dozens it seems

Don't give up yet Tam, the local Governments are taking interest as we speak, as I said a little further up on this reply. I just hope it does not fall into the 'saco roto' (sack with no bottom) as often happens in Spain.

 

[jumartoo]

Because I think they know that regardless of the hassles those few hundred thousand motorhomes are paying money in to Spain. There is no denying that.


Unless they moved the vans from playa de cocedores yesterday there were hundreds there when I drove through the other day . The parking spot by the big blue roundabout with the boat in the middle at aguilas where its normally banned also had around 50-70 vans in it.

The proper aire that was flooded was understandably completely empty and looked like a mud bath .

They were moved a week or so ago, allegedly, and the areas were removed from P4N. Obviously not the case, unless they've allowed people back on because of the closure of Anibal.

 

[Northernraider]

They were moved a week or so ago, allegedly, and the areas were removed from P4N. Obviously not the case, unless they've allowed people back on because of the closure of Anibal.

There's loads Judith....all the way from the tower parkup at villaricos to aguilas the coast is full of vans , many as I said were sitting in what looked like mud baths n swamps from all the rain. San Juan de Los terreros had about 100 parked round the fenced park . There were at least 100 on both playa calarreona and calcadores but possibly closer to 200 .. I never even considered parking at them. There's just too many even with the rain and cold weather. Which makes you think many are long stayers as others move to try and escape the rain.

 

[Gingernuts]

Silly me I thought solo turismos meant only campervans lol

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