Lithium? The big con?

[mikash]

Sorry Eddie just a correction, I was paying 30 quid delivered from Germany. In most cases , I wouldn't get through a container a year as it's only literally like right now I'm struggling.. therefore in my case withy motorhoming doing 90 nights away per year at a mixture of sites and rallies, I used next to nothing in ethanol.

Regarding the insurers., were never interested, carrying one carton in the pouch and another as a spare was perfectly acceptable.
Which in hindsight would have lasted me a couple of years

One of those M5 canisters which sell for about 40 euros contains 4.5kWh or 375Ah @ 12V, essentially only slightly more than your battery pack currently does. If you're really only burning one of those canisters / season, you should be really quite close to making things work without the eFoy.
Or to put it the other way, at that yearly consumption and with the LA setup you really can't have been enjoying much more offgrid independcy even with the efoy than what you should be able to enjoy with the bigger Lithium pack if you're using the same amount of eöectricity. Unless you're signiciantly underestimating the methanol consumption, of course.

 

[jongood]

On an attempt at returning to the orinal point haganap

I've lost track but think you now believe there is a B2B in there, some b2b's can be run in paralel so would adding another help

 

[Minxy]

These are big benefits for us. we can also have a quick drink on a travelling day without having to wait for the hob to cool down enough to put the cover back on.

Why do you wait for the hob to cool down? We don't, once the kettle's boiled and poured it then has a little cold water put in to cool it then it is put back in the cupboard and the hob cover lowered, the only thing we check for is that the burner is turned off but never wait for it to cool.

 

[jongood]

Why do you wait for the hob to cool down? We don't, once the kettle's boiled and poured it then has a little cold water put in to cool it then it is put back in the cupboard and the hob cover lowered, the only thing we check for is that the burner is turned off but never wait for it to cool.

Because we put a mat inbetween the glass and the rings to protect it and I dont want to risk melting it on the grills. But overall the electric kettle is just easier.

Do you know anyone who still uses a gas kettle at home?

 

[jumar]

Because we put a mat inbetween the glass and the rings to protect it and I dont want to risk melting it on the grills. But overall the electric kettle is just easier.

Do you know anyone who still uses a gas kettle at home?

Our apartment is all electric...so being all electric in a motorhome is easily achieved...

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[AdrianChen]

Well I’ve ploughed through this post and admit much of it has gone over my head.
What I can’t understand is why people feel the need to have air fryers, what did you do before they became the must have? I’ve probably got a breville sandwich maker in the back of a cupboard somewhere!
What is the urge to use electric for everything?
We have refillable gas for cooking, hot water and heating.
Fridge works on gas or maintains on 12 v when driving.
Lighting runs off 12 volts. Phones charge off usb points.
Wife has a heated hair brush which runs off gas cartridges.
We have solar, I have no idea of the size or what it adds but my habitation battery always seems ok.
Yes we don’t off grid that often but we recognise if you do you must manage your expectations.
I guess it all depends on what you want, we accept that our motorhome will not provide the same comfort as our house but we are not able to travel with our house.
I recognise the frustration of the original poster, he was sold the dream and what he has ended up with falls well short of what he expected, especially considering the price.
I go back to my original point, why is there a rush to electric?

The way I see it is that as technology progresses "more" or "different things" can be achieved. I could think of our first boat 1988 - two small LA batteries, oil lamps for anchor and interior - foot pumps for cold water, no hot - no 240v at all - manual winches and anchor hauling etc etc. It was camping in wet Tupperware. The last 2 were like living in a small apartment with plenty of everything, very comfortable to be on for long periods, so were used (until the pandemic). Both the first and last gave the same "sailing fix". Same story with the cars I have owned/driven.

Technological progress is just getting faster, and I like to take advantage of what comes along, but as ever there are still practical limitations to capacity and cost - I think it would be quite possible to pop a big Tesla type battery under a motorhome, and to provide better services in a van (heat light power) but the cost may be too much for the market, and current legislation makes it too heavy for most, so manufacturers tread slowly while the lawmakers move at glacial speeds.

But in this instance I think the battery makers are pretty truthful about lithium advantages, except the drop in thing which at best is only true if other factors are appropriate. Can't say I've talked to the van sales guys about Lithium but doubtless some are not basing their advice on knowledge/experience. When I talked to potential owners (not that I am, or ever was a sales guy) who wanted no gas boats 5 years back it was cost that prohibited them, The most honest thing you could say was, you give me an extra 30-40k, and I'll credit the gas bottle. Now I believe its on the options list and not so dear.

Most of the hype I see is from the enthusiasts and early adopters, and that becomes viral! It's difficult for non techie folk like me to know without doing the research and reading posts like this one for balance.

So why the rush - I guess folk would be happy to have motorhomes that are more comfortable, and convenient. The damper is allways price, so as that falls more folk dive in. At the end of the day it is about what makes you happy.

In this instance it's an Efoy! or perhaps one more lithium in the bank - If only all things in life were that simple!

 

[MisterB]

I'm deeply saddened that nobody has cared to ask me, how my self conversion to lithium is going,

How is your self conversion to lithium going? (That should add a few more responses ...)

haganap - I sent you some Ah's last night, if you don't need them, can you send them back please as I need to hoover the van with the electric hoover and cut the grass with the electric lawn mower .....

 

[andyman]

haganap This thread has reminded me of a discussion at Wrenbury many years ago.
Cant remember who it was but they were saying until they met you they had no solar and never worried about power. You convinced them to add extra batteries and solar, now they were constantly worried sbout running out of power.

 

[Roger S]

It would be interesting for anyone with a lithium set up to swap their batteries back to the same amp lead batteries to see how they get on with their adjusted lithium life stile.

 

[pandas]

Because we put a mat inbetween the glass and the rings to protect it and I dont want to risk melting it on the grills. But overall the electric kettle is just easier.

Do you know anyone who still uses a gas kettle at home?

Not if you haven’t enough electricity

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[MisterB]

I go back to my original point, why is there a rush to electric?

I blame the government......

I am now strongly considering removing all modern conveniences from my motorhome as we managed long before we had any of them, and becoming a third world Motorhomer , how many horses would I need to pull a 7.4m motorhome?

 

[MisterB]

It would be interesting for anyone with a lithium set up to swap their batteries back to the same amp lead batteries to see how they get on with their adjusted lithium life stile.

I think you've just volunteered.....

 

[B+W vanman]

How is your self conversion to lithium going? (That should add a few more responses ...)

haganap - I sent you some Ah's last night, if you don't need them, can you send them back please as I need to hoover the van with the electric hoover and cut the grass with the electric lawn mower .....

You could always use your gas sweeper and gas lawnmower

 

[AshFencing]

The reason I still only have a small 1300w inverter but with 500A+ of lithium and 600w of roof solar is to not change the mindset of power use! We have electric kettle, air fryer, Starlink (12v), 4K TV etc etc but we are both disciplined with switching the inverter on only when needed.

A 3000w inverter, drives different behaviours both consciously and subconsciously.

Yes, I have the same 3000w inverter and it’s has a huge draw just in running itself, before any load is applied.

 

[roseheath]

Easy to get over ambitious with Lithium, we have 460ah with 350 watts of solar & 50 amp B2B.
Our first trip a rally at the beginning of July the first night we used 105 ah, second night got it down to 75 ah. No heating hardly any lights needed but the inverter just being on was using 34 ah a day.

By comparison just finished our 3rd night away, heating been on in morning and most of each evening, TV only on last night. Not used the air fryer or induction hob but using an electric kettle.
We have averaged 45 ah a day and solar input has been non exsistant.

Our 430 ah of Lithium actually gives us 485 ah so we could with care survive up to 10 days off grid at this time of year.

I'm interested how you monitor the power usage? Do you have some sort of device connected to the battery and an app on your phone?

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[headlight]

I went from 2 x 100AH lead acid leisure batteries, 230 watts solar and 60 amp B2B to 1 x 230AH LifePo4, 230 watts solar and 60 amp B2B.
With the lead acids solar covered my usage for 6 months of the year and the B2B the other 6 months.
However in winter I could only manage 2 nights before having to drive for the B2B to charge the batteries, 3 nights at a push if I was very very careful but I really had to keep an eye on usage and often not run things I wanted to run or not run them for as long I would ideally want to.
We knew that there were places in winter that we wanted to stay at for 4 nights not 2, and we definitely couldn't do 4 nights.
So for us LifePo4 has changed the game as it has allowed us to do the things we want to.
We already had charge sources, MPPT and B2B with Lithium charge profiles, so the cost was only the £600 purchase price of the Fogstar 230AH.

 

[headlight]

I'm interested how you monitor the power usage? Do you have some sort of device connected to the battery and an app on your phone?

Like a lot of us Lenny has a shunt fitted that measures every amp in and out of the battery, well actually every 0.1 amp.
You can get shunts with physical displays or use Bluetooth to an app on your phone.
Using the shunt and running things one at a time you can see exactly what an item draws.

 

[pandas]

Because we put a mat inbetween the glass and the rings to protect it and I dont want to risk melting it on the grills. But overall the electric kettle is just easier.

Do you know anyone who still uses a gas kettle at home?

Didn’t think anyone uses a kettle anymore Quooker sorts it - but it does need electricity!

 

[Happy Jack]

Because we put a mat inbetween the glass and the rings to protect it and I dont want to risk melting it on the grills. But overall the electric kettle is just easier.

Do you know anyone who still uses a gas kettle at home?

We've still got a proper gad kettle at home, the one with the coil in the base. But out of use now since we got the induction hob.

 

[Lenny HB]

I'm interested how you monitor the power usage? Do you have some sort of device connected to the battery and an app on your phone?

I have a Victron BMV 712 Shunt I can monitor it on a display or an app on my phone.
A Victron Smart Shunt will do the same job but no display.
Only bought the display version as it has a programable relay which I have a project for.

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[ChrisL]

I'm interested how you monitor the power usage? Do you have some sort of device connected to the battery and an app on your phone?

Many of us have a Victron Shunt, this connects via Bluetooth to an app on your phone which can display current and historical information, other makes are available I believe.

 

[haganap]

Beats me how it's managed to get to 8 pages when the original post was so devoid of any sensible information !

I'm beginning to think your username is as much of a con as lithium

I'll try harder in future...

Maybe it will become more informative on my upcoming YouTube channel whereby i discuss all the things motorhomers have been conned out of in over 20 years..


It's going to be a great watch...

 

[bellabee]

I think my main anxiety would be running out of toilet cassette capacity rather than electricity if we were off grid for more than 4 days!

Exactly this!!!

Horses for courses, I suppose.

We have 2 x 7-year-old gels, can spend 6 nights on a Fun summer rally without problem.
We make 2 extended Continental trips per year, rarely stay in one place for more than a couple of days, stay on aires, campsites and free park, and have never, ever felt anxious about electricity.

We are light users of electricity, don't watch television when away, feel no need for an air fryer or a washing machine, or any of the other domestic gubbins which crowd our lives at home. We do use hookup to recharge batteries, but that's no hardship to us, as we move about so frequently. We also like to use some campsites so we can spread ourselves out in the sunshine.

I do understand that others have different priorities to us, and I'd never say 'never', but I really can't see how conversion to lithium would enhance our particular experience in any way.

On the other hand, we have been known to experience anxiety about cassette capacity.

 

[bigtwin]

haganap This thread has reminded me of a discussion at Wrenbury many years ago.
Cant remember who it was but they were saying until they met you they had no solar and never worried about power. You convinced them to add extra batteries and solar, now they were constantly worried sbout running out of power.

Ahh, but as we all know, ignorance is bliss.

Once enlightened, folks take an interest.

Ian

 

[haganap]

Many of us have a Victron Shunt, this connects via Bluetooth to an app on your phone which can display current and historical information, other makes are available I believe.

View attachment 995387

Is this what i have?

I've a shunt?

Wow can't wait to tell everyone, hope they don't mishear me..

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[Buddy1012]

I think you are right, ideal winter capacity and summer capacity when solar is working are completely different, we have 640ah and can easily do 6 days in the winter without really worrying too much about running out, but 600ah takes a fair bit of putting back in and a few hours on the road isn’t going to do it, yes we could use gas for the kettle and cook more on gas inside but then I think Paul’s point is we might as well have lead acid and save a fortune, that said our next van will have 1000ah lithium

1000ah! I’ve lived in a fully off grid house for 5 years (4 beds / 4 baths etc) so not small. Had all the usual 230v paraphernalia - dishwasher, washer/dryer, 2 TVs, fridge and 2 freezers, over 100 LED light fittings inside and out, plus of course hairdryer and a whole lot of other hand held appliances, phone chargers, iPad, laptop. In essence just as for a normal ‘on grid’ house. Our set up - 600ah lithium, 8kw inverter and 5500w of solar. We were good for average of 15kw per day use. An auto generator kicked in for 1 - 2 hours daily charging from start of November to end of Feb. All other times solar was more than adequate. The key though was configuring it all up as a 48v system (as opposed to 12).
I am surprised that no one on here talks much about the merits of a 24v set-up in a motorhome which is were you can really start to push the ‘off grid’ envelope.

 

[Tony50]

You will get used to it in time Paul

We are at a Motor caravanners club rally in Terrington St Clements near Kings Lynn, 100 amp Lithium no hookup , heating on and off as needed, only cook on gas,6 c outside 2 nights here still have 55% left in battery, we are slightly tight on power use , apart from that the wind rocked us to sleep, and now having a nice heavy rain storm !!

 

[ChrisL]

Is this what i have?

I've a shunt?

Wow can't wait to tell everyone, hope they don't mishear me..

I don't know what you have, if you look closely I was replying to a question from another member.

 

[Lenny HB]

I really can't see how conversion to lithium would enhance our particular experience in any way.

Phew! Thank goodness for that it will save me some lengthy tele calls with Graham.

 

[jongood]

1000ah! I’ve lived in a fully off grid house for 5 years (4 beds / 4 baths etc) so not small. Had all the usual 230v paraphernalia - dishwasher, washer/dryer, 2 TVs, fridge and 2 freezers, over 100 LED light fittings inside and out, plus of course hairdryer and a whole lot of other hand held appliances, phone chargers, iPad, laptop. In essence just as for a normal ‘on grid’ house. Our set up - 600ah lithium, 8kw inverter and 5500w of solar. We were good for average of 15kw per day use. An auto generator kicked in for 1 - 2 hours daily charging from start of November to end of Feb. All other times solar was more than adequate. The key though was configuring it all up as a 48v system (as opposed to 12).
I am surprised that no one on here talks much about the merits of a 24v set-up in a motorhome which is were you can really start to push the ‘off grid’ envelope.

I seriously considered 24v because chassis electrics are all 24v and I have a separate 12v alternator for hab side. At the time it meant changing a bit too much and there was more readily available stuff for 12v on the habside.

I believe some of the newer truck based liners are all 24v.Makes a lot of sense as cabling and loads are easier to manage.

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