Lithium? The big con?

[funflair]

That’s a game changer

Yes well I was laying in the bath contemplating that very question (no not in the van) in conclusion I have to agree with Paul in some way, or possibly not the game is the same so yes I agree, the game being having enough reserves of energy before you get a chance to replenish, that energy source could be gas, diesel or petrol for a penny or Methanol for a EFOY or indeed amps in your Lithium, but on the other side yes Lithium has changed the way you play the power game as I wouldn't want to go back to a gas kettle inside the van and trying to cook outdoors on gas with the wind blowing it out so yes it's the same game played differently so is that a game changer ?

 

[CazPaul]

Yes well I was laying in the bath contemplating that very question (no not in the van) in conclusion I have to agree with Paul in some way, or possibly not the game is the same so yes I agree, the game being having enough reserves of energy before you get a chance to replenish, that energy source could be gas, diesel or petrol for a penny or Methanol for a EFOY or indeed amps in your Lithium, but on the other side yes Lithium has changed the way you play the power game as I wouldn't want to go back to a gas kettle inside the van and trying to cook outdoors on gas with the wind blowing it out so yes it's the same game played differently so is that a game changer ?

What’s wrong with a gas kettle Martin, we’ve had one in the van nearly 18 years now, it boils really quick, underslung tank so plenty gas there.

 

[funflair]

What’s wrong with a gas kettle Martin, we’ve had one in the van nearly 18 years now, it boils really quick, underslung tank so plenty gas there.

Gas kettle? and yes we used one until? (well you know what) what's wrong? takes an age to boil against electric, heats up the van in the summer, means we have to have the lid up on the hob which means less work space for prep for cooking outside, plenty of gas in the underslung tank yes of course, until it runs out

 

[dunnah01]

Why should I change my AGMs for Lithium. I'm a normal user with about 4.5kW solar

 

[funflair]

Why should I change my AGMs for Lithium. I'm a normal user with about 4.5kW solar

Do you want to be normal ?

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[suavecarve]

Why should I change my AGMs for Lithium. I'm a normal user with about 4.5kW solar

Its a game changer.......you too can pick holes in other people's lacking in available electricity and also get an option to have numerous different apps which ultimately tell you the same thing and give you the trendy "battery anxiety" issue.

 

[AdrianChen]

Eeeek!

Definitely a petrol genny and a 5 lit can of 4 star for me then!

I'd never heard of an Efoy before this thread and while it sounds great on paper, that's pretty high running costs right there.

My B2B will produce a theoretical 120A charge so my worst case scenario if running low on a snowy day with little to no solar is to simply run the engine for half an hour.

Works for me.

When I looked (2012 ish), the innards (stack?) had a life of around 3000 hours, which is not much and it was an expensive part. They gave out about 4-5amps IIRC. So for us, a ten week cruise with the thing on for 24hrs would use half the life of the stack, and a ton of money for the methanol. The fuel should be their brand, cheaper industrial stuff apparently wrecks the stack.

I think now they can do around 10amps, and they also sell them with a lithium battery, so the combination is more like using a regular genset.

Not sure they would suit me now, given we often use 100ah in a day, but back then we went with Onan diesel gensets, 4-5kw then 6-7. Solar and B2B on the van, but would love the convenience of a decent genny, if only they were quieter than many of the ones I have heard on lorry's and vans.

But I get why folk like the Efoy for what it can do.

 

[gus-lopez]

is to simply run the engine for half an hour.

& is not recommended on modern vehicles with dpf's cats etc.just clogs them up needing regens

I mean I've only done it for 20 years,

Not with a dpf you haven't

I'd also ask the people who think that idling your engine for 30 mins is going to be catastrophic what they do when driving through major cities at rush hour....

There is a difference. with usage ,the engine attains working temperature. Start up & idle it never does.That is the problem.
Even in stop start rush hour crawl the engine will be at working temp.idling from cold it never gets there

I don't see it as an issue, especially as it's likely going to be followed up soon after with a 3-4h drive on dual carriageway

But that was not mentioned. You stated run the engine for 30 minutes. So the assumption would be then turn it off.when power drops again engine is started .same as the french do day after day

Had many horseboxes over the years and many of them either came with, or i fitted a generator, then self sufficient as regards electricity as long as petrol is available….

But the gennie noise would not be noticed over horses whinnying & neighing along with regular door & stall kicking & snorting

what's wrong? takes an age to boil against electric,

Therein lies all the problems. electric consumption .the ability of the kettle to boil that quick is the power it consumes to do it.

 

[enark]

& is not recommended on modern vehicles with dpf's cats etc.just clogs them up needing regens

Not with a dpf you haven't

There is a difference. with usage ,the engine attains working temperature. Start up & idle it never does.That is the problem.
Even in stop start rush hour crawl the engine will be at working temp.idling from cold it never gets there


But that was not mentioned. You stated run the engine for 30 minutes. So the assumption would be then turn it off.when power drops again engine is started .same as the french do day after day

But the gennie noise would not be noticed over horses whinnying & neighing along with regular door & stall kicking & snorting

Therein lies all the problems. electric consumption .the ability of the kettle to boil that quick is the power it consumes to do it.

Genny noise not noticed without horse noises etc. a well installed, insulated and suspended genny with a fitted exhaust is pretty quiet.

And besides the genny is only needed when off grid, so often miles away from anyone or anything..

 

[MichaelT]

Genny noise not noticed without horse noises etc. a well installed, insulated and suspended genny with a fitted exhaust is pretty quiet.

And besides the genny is only needed when off grid, so often miles away from anyone or anything..

Bollocks never heard a quiet genny

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Barchetta47]

Bollocks never heard a quiet genny

Indeed our Jenny was a right screamer!!

 

[eddie]

Bollocks never heard a quiet genny

Ah, but you’ve not heard the quiet ones

 

[Bramidan]

Well I’ve ploughed through this post and admit much of it has gone over my head.
What I can’t understand is why people feel the need to have air fryers, what did you do before they became the must have? I’ve probably got a breville sandwich maker in the back of a cupboard somewhere!
What is the urge to use electric for everything?
We have refillable gas for cooking, hot water and heating.
Fridge works on gas or maintains on 12 v when driving.
Lighting runs off 12 volts. Phones charge off usb points.
Wife has a heated hair brush which runs off gas cartridges.
We have solar, I have no idea of the size or what it adds but my habitation battery always seems ok.
Yes we don’t off grid that often but we recognise if you do you must manage your expectations.
I guess it all depends on what you want, we accept that our motorhome will not provide the same comfort as our house but we are not able to travel with our house.
I recognise the frustration of the original poster, he was sold the dream and what he has ended up with falls well short of what he expected, especially considering the price.
I go back to my original point, why is there a rush to electric?

 

[Winger]

haganap. I’ve read all the thread and would just like to add that my next door neighbour/friend is very happy with the eFoy system that he bought off you! He doesn’t want to understand the Lithium stance.

 

[haganap]

What I can’t understand is why people feel the need to have air fryers,
What is the urge to use electric for everything?

Fgs, Bramidan, the skillet lady packed up and disappeared to Spain years ago.

The air fryer is now the Nikki option for cooking and needs to be powered..

Are you not married

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[haganap]

haganap. I’ve read all the thread and would just like to add that my next door neighbour/friend is very happy with the eFoy system that he bought off you! He doesn’t want to understand the Lithium stance.

Can you ask him to sell me it back

 

[St3v3]

Apologies if this has been said, I only read the first page.

The key word here is Efoy. The battery on your last van could have been a PP9 and you would have been fine, because of the Efoy.

 

[haganap]

Fgs can someone explain what's happening here.?
Been out for the night, came back, checked batteries and I've more power than MisterB...

Never had this problem with AGM... when they were fooked that was that...

 

[Gromett]

I have read through this thread and can't see anyone mentioning it. So here are my thoughts for what they are worth.
You previously had 2 x 120AH lead acid batteries giving <120AH of usable power.
You had an efoy which could put in 80AH a day (assuming you had the smallest one).

This means the efoy could have effectively kept you going almost indefinitely as it could have kept up with 80Ah of usage per day (+ whatever solar you had coming in)?

Now you have 3 x 110AH lithium and no efoy. At 80Ah of usage per day you would have a theoretical 4 days maximum usage. However, you also have 2.1Ah of drain which is 50Ah a day of usage with no efoy to keep up.

It is not fair in my opinion to compare a lead acid and efoy system vs a lithium with no efoy.

If you isolate out just the battery technology. LiFePO4 is superior on pretty much ever performance metric. Round trip energy (what you put in vs what you get back out). Charge speed, voltage sag, weight etc etc. The Lithium battery beats the lead acid hands down in every performance category that I can think of.

So if you are having problems now that you didn't have before. You either have a faulty system or something is different or both.

I suspect this is entirely down to not having the efoy, and perhaps looking at the base level current draw?

I would look at the inverter to see if you can reduce it's resting usage. Some inverters have settings allowing it to effectively sleep when no 240V power is being used. Or learn to switch if off when not in use.
I don't know what fridge you have? If it is a 3 way. Ensure it is not automatically switching to 240V when the inverter is on. This will suck your batteries down ultra rapidly. If you have a multiplus inline then it is possible that the inverter is supplying your fridge?

Just a few of my thoughts for what they are worth.

On the marketing crap. I would have thought you were too smart to believe anything a salesman told you?

 

[Gromett]

Fgs can someone explain what's happening here.?
Been out for the night, came back, checked batteries and I've more power than MisterB...

View attachment 995335

Did you reset that before you went out? So when you were not in your van, your van used 49Ah in one evening without you even being in it?

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Rob Turner]

A Dyson Hairdryer will sort all your problems out.

Happy New Year.

 

[Happy Jack]

You

I have read through this thread and can't see anyone mentioning it. So here are my thoughts for what they are worth.
You previously had 2 x 120AH lead acid batteries giving <120AH of usable power.
You had an efoy which could put in 80AH a day (assuming you had the smallest one).

This means the efoy could have effectively kept you going almost indefinitely as it could have kept up with 80Ah of usage per day (+ whatever solar you had coming in)?

Now you have 3 x 110AH lithium and no efoy. At 80Ah of usage per day you would have a theoretical 4 days maximum usage. However, you also have 2.1Ah of drain which is 50Ah a day of usage with no efoy to keep up.

It is not fair in my opinion to compare a lead acid and efoy system vs a lithium with no efoy.

If you isolate out just the battery technology. LiFePO4 is superior on pretty much ever performance metric. Round trip energy (what you put in vs what you get back out). Charge speed, voltage sag, weight etc etc. The Lithium battery beats the lead acid hands down in every performance category that I can think of.

So if you are having problems now that you didn't have before. You either have a faulty system or something is different or both.

I suspect this is entirely down to not having the efoy, and perhaps looking at the base level current draw?

I would look at the inverter to see if you can reduce it's resting usage. Some inverters have settings allowing it to effectively sleep when no 240V power is being used. Or learn to switch if off when not in use.
I don't know what fridge you have? If it is a 3 way. Ensure it is not automatically switching to 240V when the inverter is on. This will suck your batteries down ultra rapidly. If you have a multiplus inline then it is possible that the inverter is supplying your fridge?

Just a few of my thoughts for what they are worth.

On the marketing crap. I would have thought you were too smart to believe anything a salesman told you?

Grommet, most of what your saying, apart from the fridge, has been touched upon but put in different ways.
For example, I mentioned that the something different is the fact that he had an efoy in his lead system. Also said he would have had low voltage more regularly with his lead if he didnt have an efoy.
He's also been advised multiple times that the 3-4A draw when all is switched off needs to be looked at.
I mentioned that the 72-96A loss would quickly deplete the lithium and even quicker the lead.

 

[jumar]

This thread is better than any Toilet Thread seen on Fun...how it's managed to continue with so much zest and vigor for so long beats me.
I'm deeply saddened that nobody has cared to ask me, how my self conversion to lithium is going, being a heavy user, as I am...riding two power thirsty eBikes on a daily basis...an array of electric appliances too...but no hair dryer I might add...well if you cannot bother to ask, I'll tell you anyway...Just fine thanks...my modest 400 amp thingies of Lithium and other thingies of means to recharge them and a few rays of golden sun...it's a system made for off grid usage...leaving crowded campsites, charging extortionate fees to sleep ...So no more questions please it's New Year day and I'm busy Polishing my Portable Power Pack.....8 pages...incredible reading..

 

[Happy Jack]

This thread is better than any Toilet Thread seen on Fun...how it's managed to continue with so much zest and vigor for so long beats me.
I'm deeply saddened that nobody has cared to ask me, how my self conversion to lithium is going, being a heavy user, as I am...riding two power thirsty eBikes on a daily basis...an array of electric appliances too...but no hair dryer I might add...well if you cannot bother to ask, I'll tell you anyway...Just fine thanks...my modest 400 amp thingies of Lithium and other thingies of means to recharge them and a few rays of golden sun...it's a system made for off grid usage...leaving crowded campsites, charging extortionate fees to sleep ...So no more questions please it's New Year day and I'm busy Polishing my Portable Power Pack.....8 pages...incredible reading..

Beats me how it's managed to get to 8 pages when the original post was so devoid of any sensible information !

 

[carolyn]

This thread is better than any Toilet Thread seen on Fun...how it's managed to continue with so much zest and vigor for so long beats me.
I'm deeply saddened that nobody has cared to ask me, how my self conversion to lithium is going, being a heavy user, as I am...riding two power thirsty eBikes on a daily basis...an array of electric appliances too...but no hair dryer I might add...well if you cannot bother to ask, I'll tell you anyway...Just fine thanks...my modest 400 amp thingies of Lithium and other thingies of means to recharge them and a few rays of golden sun...it's a system made for off grid usage...leaving crowded campsites, charging extortionate fees to sleep ...So no more questions please it's New Year day and I'm busy Polishing my Portable Power Pack.....8 pages...incredible reading..

You have that yellow thing in the sky even in winter so we don’t care about your opinion bah humbug. If doesn’t fill the lithium as well but even I know it helps a bit.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[JockandRita]

Well, I have to say that going down the LiFePO4 route in October has been a game changer for us, with more to follow hopefully when we hit the winter sun.

The 4 x 90A SLAs and Votronic solar controllers, have been replaced with 600A of Fogstar Drift Eco Lithiums, (no heaters or Bluetooth BMS required), 2 x Victron solar controllers, and a Victron Smart Shunt. We've had 3 x winter weekends away where the gas hob has not been used at all. The 60A Sterling B2B has done it's job, taking the batteries from 73% back up to 85% by the time we've driven home.
My only gripe, (and it's with N+B or CBE), is that the bleddy F/F takes 16A of that 60A charge, all because they didn't wire it up to a D+ connection from the alternator. I can't believe they did that, and apparently, still do. It is so easy to inadvertently leave the F/F on the 12v setting, thereby depleting the batteries pronto.
I really do need to get someone to sort that one out for me.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[Minxy]

I read from page 2 to 8 last night as it was so electrifying and I have to give a big thanks to you all for contributing as for once I had no problems getting off to sleep as it made me so tired!

Keep it going guys!

 

[MichaelT]

What I can’t understand is why people feel the need to have air fryers, what did you do before they became the must have? I’ve probably got a breville sandwich maker in the back of a cupboard somewhere!
What is the urge to use electric for everything?
We have refillable gas for cooking, hot water and heating.
Fridge works on gas or maintains on 12 v when driving.
Lighting runs off 12 volts. Phones charge off usb points.
Wife has a heated hair brush which runs off gas cartridges.
We have solar, I have no idea of the size or what it adds but my habitation battery always seems ok.
Yes we don’t off grid that often but we recognise if you do you must manage your expectations.
I guess it all depends on what you want, we accept that our motorhome will not provide the same comfort as our house but we are not able to travel with our house.
I recognise the frustration of the original poster, he was sold the dream and what he has ended up with falls well short of what he expected, especially considering the price.
I go back to my original point, why is there a rush to electric?

We don't have a gas oven so need something to cook in?

We went more electric as it's getting increasingly hard to get LPG plus once it's fitted it's free to use as its all solar powered!

We are very veryvery rarely plugged in and don't have a charger if we did!

 

[jongood]

I am very surprised that the likes of N&B et al dont offer pushbutton generators fitted as an option.

Had many horseboxes over the years and many of them either came with, or i fitted a generator, then self sufficient as regards electricity as long as petrol is available…..

Last one was diesel heating, water and hob, with electric oven fridge etc and 3.5kw generator.

Never worried about running out of anything..

Our 2003 N+B came with a gas powered underslung genny, an efoy, 240w pv and 2 very heavy 220ah gels.

Following earlier experimentation with lithium I removed genny and efoy and now have 800w pv and 480ah lithium and a b2b, we are fairly heavy users and this works 95% of the time for us, but we tend not to spend much time in UK winters.

 

[jongood]

Gas kettle? and yes we used one until? (well you know what) what's wrong? takes an age to boil against electric, heats up the van in the summer, means we have to have the lid up on the hob which means less work space for prep for cooking outside, plenty of gas in the underslung tank yes of course, until it runs out

These are big benefits for us. we can also have a quick drink on a travelling day without having to wait for the hob to cool down enough to put the cover back on.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}