Joined the Comfortmatic failure club

[Fdhadi]

That’s a relief for you. They’ve always got to squeeze something out of you though.

 

[Bessy765]

For the avoidance of Doubt this is from my 2019 Fiat 2.3 150 hp Comformatic so as it will be four years old in September we have booked it into Adam Morley to have the large 4 years service which includes this procedure. We also have no faith in our local Fiat dealer as when we took it in at 2 years old and 5600 miles the fitter did not service it as he said as it had a low mileage it didn’t require a service. Even when we re booked it they never changed the brake fluid. What’s the point of a service manual if the garage just ignore it. When I asked Fiat to double check they just said read the service book.

 

[Bustup15]

Here's one for the book!

NETV Blaydon, gearbox and 'control unit' fluid changes £365 Inc vat

Clutch only As per telephone conversation, clutch oil change would be £225.71 + VAT

NETV Billingham clutch only 'no more than £460 but we have NEVER done one before'

No wonder there are gearbox failures about!

Yet Lenny HB gets £90 in Portsmouth

 

[TheLifeofBrian]

Hi all,
Just a tip to anyone who has this problem:

If I start the engine and wait a few seconds before trying to put the vehicle into gear I get the dreaded 'Gear not available' message.

However, if I IMMEDIATELY select 1st gear as soon as the engine starts it goes into gear & I can then drive normally!! (sometimes with a crunch )
I always select Neutral before starting the engine by the way.

Wohoo. I have my van back, and it's working

The diagnostic software showed a sub system error of engine and clutch speed mismatch. Effectively the clutch was not disengaging. Bleeding the clutch fluids alone did not clear the fault, indicating mechanical problems.
The clutch fluid was contaminated (this is the brake type fluid that operates the clutch cylinders, not the separate hydraulic type oils that move the gear change).
The master cylinder internal seals were degrading (part of the contamination above). Master cylinder has been replaced.
Clutch itself also failed. The buffer bushes were found to be broken. The clutch (not flywheel) and slave cylinder have been replaced.
The electronics have been reset and recalibrated.

Fairly costly exercise especially the master cylinder form thingy. But Simon Potter, Adams Morey Portsmouth has tried to lessen the load especially on some of the labour. Overall, especially as I also had them do the 4 year service, there has been a bit of a discount. Even so the piggy bank is overdrawn.

For future maintenance there is a strong recommendation for frequent changes of the clutch fluid, even on an annual basis, despite relatively low mileage of motorhomes. Changing the fluid needs to be able to bleed the clutch and as that is operated by the Comfortmatic system, rather than a manual clutch pedal, the garage does need the diagnostic software - Multiecuscan might well suffice for non Fiat Professional systems. May explain why some motorhome dealers like mine don't go anywhere near it. Having checked / changed fluid some calibration routines are desired to allow for the minor wear that takes place from year to year.

At 3.5 years, 17,000 miles failure shouldn't really have occurred. Difficult to say from the things that needed attention which bit broke first to then cause issues with other bits. With the fluid contaminated, inevitably that hadn't been checked / replaced when the manual says it should have been looked at after 2 years. The pants service plan I had been given by the dealer up north had amounted to little more than an oil change.

Difficult to say what could be done to avoid the problem, or prevent it. One key area seems to be trying to avoid holding the vehicle on the clutch, on hills, and particularly on /off leveling blocks. It's notable that when this failed, although it was probably already failing, in the previous week I'd been stuck in mud, and then it had been on and off ramps where I was having stuff fitted underneath (nothing to do with Adams Morey).

All I can do for future is to drive normally, trying to avoid poor behaviours such as any holding of van on clutch rather than brakes, neutral if stuck in queues at lights, and then a good servicing regime.

I know this was a few months ago but having had almost constant problems with the Comfortmatic I am amazed there isn't much mention of the plastic parts in the clutch plate that break & cause most of these problems? As you put:

Clutch itself also failed. The buffer bushes were found to be broken.

There is a Dutch website with loads of complaints about it:
https://www.nkcforum.nl/topic/5-probleem-met-automaat-fiat-ducato-uit-2017/
Google translate will be your friend
My Ducato was built in 2014 I believe (2015 reg) 2.3 150HP and I am waiting to have it taken apart to find out if I have this clutch plate - I am getting fault code P2919-64 CSC fault - signal plausibility failure.
There is also a very long German site:
Broken Link Removed
which also eventually suggests (after 65 pages!) the same thing - but also suggests changing the accumulator & how to test it. Plus the hydraulic fluid and the Brake fluid (that works the clutch)
Here is a picture of a clutch with the broken plastic parts visible:

Has anyone on here had this problem?
It seems to be 2015 to 2018 years in particular and it causes ALL the usual symptoms as the bits get stuck in the clutch release mechanism until they get broken up & the problems go away - until the next time

cheers
Chris

 

[WESTY66]

Did the Slovenian, Austrian, Italian and German alps last year on my run down to Croatia and back with my Comfortmatic and like you, zero problems

Wish I could say the same with the Pia airbag light

Well just back from a bit in France then switzerland, and back through the fatherland, 45k now and the comfortmatic just seems to get better with the miles on it

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Jackd]

Well just back from a bit in France then switzerland, and back through the fatherland, 45k now and the comfortmatic just seems to get better with the miles on it

Excellent
It’s always better to have the new clutch fitted before the old one gives up.

 

[WESTY66]

Excellent
It’s always better to have the new clutch fitted before the old one gives up.

Don’t fix what’s not broken!!

 

[WESTY66]

Excellent
It’s always better to have the new clutch fitted before the old one gives up.

Id get 150k out of this clutch If I kept it that long

 

[Hagstrom]

TheLifeOfBrian - ours failed because of a broken plastic clip in the clutch.

 

[Mixyblob]

Quick question folks, does anyone know if access to the OBD socket is required after a clutch oils change?
I'm having mine done at Adams Morey in Portsmouth tomorrow and my OBD port isn't "standard". I did ask them but no one could give me a definative answer at the time.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[TheBig1]

Quick question folks, does anyone know if access to the OBD socket is required after a clutch oils change?
I'm having mine done at Adams Morey in Portsmouth tomorrow and my OBD port isn't "standard". I did ask them but no one could give me a definative answer at the time.

Yes they do need access to the port to do it correctly.

 

[TheBig1]

Mine has a lock on which I removed before it was loaded onto the lorry.

They have to tell the ecu to power up. Then the program moves the actuators to purge air. Finally they should do a clutch position relearn via the software. Not doing it right or in the correct order risks air in the pipe that will blow out the seals on the slave cylinder and spray clutch fluid onto the clutch.

This is why most garages won't do the fluid change.

 

[Mixyblob]

Mine has a lock on which I removed before it was loaded onto the lorry.

They have to tell the ecu to power up. Then the program moves the actuators to purge air. Finally they should do a clutch position relearn via the software. Not doing it right or in the correct order risks air in the pipe that will blow out the seals on the slave cylinder and spray clutch fluid onto the clutch.

This is why most garages won't do the fluid change.

Thanks for that, I just hope they are aware of all that info.
Not nervous at all.

 

[Pausim]

Thanks for that, I just hope they are aware of all that info.
Not nervous at all.

Adams Morey Portsmouth seem very knowledgeable about Comformatic clutches. Panic not but it sounds like you do need to make sure they can access your non-standard OBD. What have you done to your OBD?

 

[TheBig1]

Thanks for that, I just hope they are aware of all that info.
Not nervous at all.

They should be now. The Southampton branch messed up on mine last year hence fixing it under warranty this year. The Portsmouth branch seems more motorhome friendly as the manager there was a motorhomer. He is now regional manager according to the Bournemouth branch

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Kannon Fodda]

Simon Potter may be regional but still based at Portsmouth branch. You'll be in safe hands, if they can access the OBD ...

 

[Smudger55]

Well, annoyingly we've joined the club. We're near Inverness having done NC500, most of it but having gearbox transmission problems. Had a Diagnostic test in Inverness and been told its a fault code P 2919-64, possible failure plastic cover springs, advise new slave cylinder and clutch replacement.

Estimate £1,735.

I and management despair. We have cancelled our forthcoming bookings at a cost and will endeavour to get back to Devon without breaking down.

I can't believe Fiat make such crap, our 2nd massive Fiat repair cost in 1 year.

What enjoyment can we get out of motorhoming when these problems keep occurring.

Pi@@@@d off to say the least. Living the dream has become a nightmare.

 

[Nanniemate]

Well, annoyingly we've joined the club. We're near Inverness having done NC500, most of it but having gearbox transmission problems. Had a Diagnostic test in Inverness and been told its a fault code P 2919-64, possible failure plastic cover springs, advise new slave cylinder and clutch replacement.

Estimate £1,735.

I and management despair. We have cancelled our forthcoming bookings at a cost and will endeavour to get back to Devon without breaking down.

I can't believe Fiat make such crap, our 2nd massive Fiat repair cost in 1 year.

What enjoyment can we get out of motorhoming when these problems keep occurring.

Pi@@@@d off to say the least. Living the dream has become a nightmare.

Sorry to hear this club is expanding fingers crossed you get home smoothly

 

[Dutch 68]

Well, annoyingly we've joined the club. We're near Inverness having done NC500, most of it but having gearbox transmission problems. Had a Diagnostic test in Inverness and been told its a fault code P 2919-64, possible failure plastic cover springs, advise new slave cylinder and clutch replacement.

Estimate £1,735.

I and management despair. We have cancelled our forthcoming bookings at a cost and will endeavour to get back to Devon without breaking down.

I can't believe Fiat make such crap, our 2nd massive Fiat repair cost in 1 year.

What enjoyment can we get out of motorhoming when these problems keep occurring.

Pi@@@@d off to say the least. Living the dream has become a nightmare.

If this was the USA there would be mass litigation, there is always the odd problem with cars, but the number of problems with comfortmatic gearboxes on just this small forum is unreal, can you imagine how many break down Europe wide, FIAT should really be forced to pick up the bill for this as the comfortmatic is simply not fit for purpose

 

[Hagstrom]

Sorry to hear this club is expanding fingers crossed you get home smoothly

Estimate sounds good value as they need to take the wheel/hub assembly off to access the bellhousing. It's a lot of work. New dual flywheel/clutch, often replaced at the same time, isn't cheap either.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[dunnah01]

Sorry to hear about your failure but it sounds like it's not the Comfortmatic system that's at fault but just a clutch failure

 

[pampam]

Smudger55 i hope you get it sorted , our misfortune with comfortmatic caused us endless worry and stress and lots and lots of money, and was the beginning of the end fir motorhome ownership for us , im sorry to say,
Good luck pampam

 

[Steve-N]

There could be a good case for taking legal action against Fiat as they have dropped the Comfort-Matic completely . . If that isn't admission as unfit for purpose I don't know what is !!!

(If it's any consolation the 'new' 9sp auto appears to have solved all the issue )

 

[dunnah01]

There could be a good case for taking legal action against Fiat as they have dropped the Comfort-Matic completely . . If that isn't admission as unfit for purpose I don't know what is !!!

(If it's any consolation the 'new' 9sp auto appears to have solved all the issue )

They've only dropped to Comfortmatic because they can now cram enough gears into the slush box to come close to the inherent efficiency of the stick shift boxes.

 

[Steve-N]

By efficient I assume you mean mpg ?

Years ago when auto gearboxes were 3 or 4sp at best that was maybe so, but a modern electronic controlled 9sp auto is way more efficient than any 5/6sp manual, for some reason the UK has a love of manual gearboxes, people seem to think you have more 'control' and they use less fuel, this is simple not true (fact not just my view)
A modern 9sp auto can change gear to correctly match torque and load against optimum performance and fuel efficiency way better than a human can.

I'll await the incoming !!!

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[WESTY66]

There could be a good case for taking legal action against Fiat as they have dropped the Comfort-Matic completely . . If that isn't admission as unfit for purpose I don't know what is !!!

(If it's any consolation the 'new' 9sp auto appears to have solved all the issue )

I don’t really think you can say it’s unfit for purpose without having the figures to back it up, ie all the comfortmatics that’s run with relatively few problems and those who break down and the reasons for the breakdown. As for replacement with the 9 speed that’s just progression, not an admission that the comfortmatic is useless.
Some of us on here have no problems with it, some do. At the end of the day it’s mechanical, made and put together by humans

 

[pampam]

I know nothing about gearboxes, however broke down in may, gearbox in pieces on service bay floor three months later, fiat engineers scratching their heads,once bitten twice shy fir us anyway,
We were one of the "unlucky ones"
Yes i laugh now but at the time it was horrid we part exed at great cost with dealership (we had had it for seven months)

 

[Riverbankannie]

know this was a few months ago but having had almost constant problems with the Comfortmatic I am amazed there isn't much mention of the plastic parts in the clutch plate that break & cause most of these problems? As you put:
There is a Dutch website with loads of complaints about it:
https://www.nkcforum.nl/topic/5-probleem-met-automaat-fiat-ducato-uit-2017/
Google translate will be your friend
My Ducato was built in 2014 I believe (2015 reg) 2.3 150HP and I am waiting to have it taken apart to find out if I have this clutch plate - I am getting fault code P2919-64 CSC fault - signal plausibility failure.

I just waded through a lot of this Dutch thread. What are plastic clips doing in a clutch? Must be a recipe for disaster. So many of the contributors have had these plastic clips break up. Members on that thread seem to think that there was a change of something when engine went from Euro 5 to Euro 6 and that 2017/18 and early 19 more at risk.
A few knowledgeable garages in Netherlands get a mention. I might try and make a list from that and the German forum. Seems like we need to find the equivalent French forum to find a good garage there.

 

[Smudger55]

I just waded through a lot of this Dutch thread. What are plastic clips doing in a clutch? Must be a recipe for disaster. So many of the contributors have had these plastic clips break up. Members on that thread seem to think that there was a change of something when engine went from Euro 5 to Euro 6 and that 2017/18 and early 19 more at risk.
A few knowledgeable garages in Netherlands get a mention. I might try and make a list from that and the German forum. Seems like we need to find the equivalent French forum to find a good garage there.

This is really helpful Riverbankannie. Cheers Smudger55

 

[jockaneezer]

My Dutch is nicht so gooden, but don't the Comformatics use the same clutch as the manuals ?

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}