Joined the Comfortmatic failure club

[MisterB]

This thread has got me thinking I should have my fluid changed in a 2018 Ducato, with the Conformatic box?

I can feel a phone call to Adams Morey will be taking place in the near future and a visit booked!

Edit - I have just contacted Brownhills to see if they offer this service as I am having a cam belt replacement there next week

 

[L' Hobo]

The brakes and clutch systems are separate in the Comfortmatic so the clutch fluid has even less stress than the manual version.

I know nothing about the Comfortmatic but, as on manual clutch fluid, is stress really a problem, surely it's moisture absorption and the heating and expansion of that moisture, that's the main reason one changes the oil?

Edit: This was written before I had read Rob's update.

 

[Googlebot]

Update from Adams Morey. The flywheel is definitely OK. The clutch itself needs to be replaced as does the master cylinder which has failed with contamination. Saves £600 for the flywheel but adds £900 for the cylinder . May get van back Tuesday just in time for the Swaffham bash.

Seems clear that not having the fluids checked / changed has contributed to the problem. Regardless of what seems visible the clutch area temps get hot so fluids can start to gum up which affects operation of the cylinder. So it's not just about fluid absorbing moisture. OK I'm not a vehicle engineer so exact method of failure isn't something I understand but in layman's terms the above makes sense to me

I can understand fluid check and change not being part of a standard vehicle service which uses a manual gearbox as it's base. But any reputable service agent who sees it is a Comfortmatic should be offering this as an add on. After all the standard Fiat owners manual shows a need for it.

Quite astounding really and poor customer service.

If the fluid change is essential to avoid costly repairs, it should be obvious and included on a service plan.

Sorry you have had to go through all this. :-(

 

[Nanniemate]

Update from Adams Morey. The flywheel is definitely OK. The clutch itself needs to be replaced as does the master cylinder which has failed with contamination. Saves £600 for the flywheel but adds £900 for the cylinder . May get van back Tuesday just in time for the Swaffham bash.

Seems clear that not having the fluids checked / changed has contributed to the problem. Regardless of what seems visible the clutch area temps get hot so fluids can start to gum up which affects operation of the cylinder. So it's not just about fluid absorbing moisture. OK I'm not a vehicle engineer so exact method of failure isn't something I understand but in layman's terms the above makes sense to me

I can understand fluid check and change not being part of a standard vehicle service which uses a manual gearbox as it's base. But any reputable service agent who sees it is a Comfortmatic should be offering this as an add on. After all the standard Fiat owners manual shows a need for it.

Do you not have any comeback on the people that have been servicing your van I know you look after it and take it back for servicing surely they should accept some responsibility

I'm not suggesting a witch hunt but seems if you have done all that is required and the service people have not followed the plan could it be raised with them maybe getting in touch with FIAT you never know thy may offer some financial help

I do hope you can make Swaffham I need someone to nag about sunburn while not taking my own advice

 

[Larrynwin]

I had clutch and brake fluid changed at service early this year, the first time the clutch fluid has been changed since new 12k miles now.
Not wishing to tempt providence but a couple of reported cases and some seem to be thinking it’s a poor unreliable system and perhaps over reacting , remember the “exploding headlight” episode ?, haven’t seen another mention of it since and there must be many of that type on the road before the design changed.

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[Kannon Fodda]

Quite astounding really and poor customer service.

If the fluid change is essential to avoid costly repairs, it should be obvious and included on a service plan.

Do you not have any comeback on the people that have been servicing your van I know you look after it and take it back for servicing surely they should accept some responsibility

I'm not suggesting a witch hunt but seems if you have done all that is required and the service people have not followed the plan could it be raised with them maybe getting in touch with FIAT you never know thy may offer some financial help.

The original 3 year mech service / habitation plan was with my supplying motorhome dealer. As at that time a complete newbie to motorhoming, and splashing out on a new vehicle, I had thought it was the right thing to do. In practice, a waste of money as I now know the mech service didn't cover all that was needed, amounting to little more than the annual oil change and no differential between what was done on year 1, 2 and 3, contrary to expectations in the Fiat owners manual. The hab service was also a con, especially for things like "damp check" which once was marked as not done as panel van (surely there could still be failing seals around windows and rooflights?).

I will have a whinge at the dealer, but doubt it will achieve anything.

Unfortunately I wouldn't expect to get anywhere with Fiat. They have the perfect get out that the vehicle hasn't been serviced according to their recommendations.

Meanwhile Adams Morey are doing their best to look after me and indicate they are looking if they can help with costs. The van will be due it's 4 year service and MOT by early August so once my bank account has got over this shock I'll be booking it back in at Portsmouth for that. No doubt I'll get the timing belt done through them next year at it's five years (although the Fiat manual does show in some "heavy duty [which includes cold climates]" 4 year changes on timing belts). Yes I know it's all at main dealer prices but fundamentally I want to know I'm somewhere where I can trust the people are doing the right thing.

 

[Ditcha]

The original 3 year mech service / habitation plan was with my supplying motorhome dealer. As at that time a complete newbie to motorhoming, and splashing out on a new vehicle, I had thought it was the right thing to do. In practice, a waste of money as I now know the mech service didn't cover all that was needed, amounting to little more than the annual oil change and no differential between what was done on year 1, 2 and 3, contrary to expectations in the Fiat owners manual. The hab service was also a con, especially for things like "damp check" which once was marked as not done as panel van (surely there could still be failing seals around windows and rooflights?).

I will have a whinge at the dealer, but doubt it will achieve anything.

Unfortunately I wouldn't expect to get anywhere with Fiat. They have the perfect get out that the vehicle hasn't been serviced according to their recommendations.

Meanwhile Adams Morey are doing their best to look after me and indicate they are looking if they can help with costs. The van will be due it's 4 year service and MOT by early August so once my bank account has got over this shock I'll be booking it back in at Portsmouth for that. No doubt I'll get the timing belt done through them next year at it's five years (although the Fiat manual does show in some "heavy duty [which includes cold climates]" 4 year changes on timing belts). Yes I know it's all at main dealer prices but fundamentally I want to know I'm somewhere where I can trust the people are doing the right thing.

Might be worth while asking about a belt change now while they have it stripped might save you in the long run.

 

[Figaro]

Would it not be worth getting the cam belt replaced now while the engine is out ?
A much easier job I'd have thought ?

 

[Nanniemate]

The original 3 year mech service / habitation plan was with my supplying motorhome dealer. As at that time a complete newbie to motorhoming, and splashing out on a new vehicle, I had thought it was the right thing to do. In practice, a waste of money as I now know the mech service didn't cover all that was needed, amounting to little more than the annual oil change and no differential between what was done on year 1, 2 and 3, contrary to expectations in the Fiat owners manual. The hab service was also a con, especially for things like "damp check" which once was marked as not done as panel van (surely there could still be failing seals around windows and rooflights?).

I will have a whinge at the dealer, but doubt it will achieve anything.

Unfortunately I wouldn't expect to get anywhere with Fiat. They have the perfect get out that the vehicle hasn't been serviced according to their recommendations.

Meanwhile Adams Morey are doing their best to look after me and indicate they are looking if they can help with costs. The van will be due it's 4 year service and MOT by early August so once my bank account has got over this shock I'll be booking it back in at Portsmouth for that. No doubt I'll get the timing belt done through them next year at it's five years (although the Fiat manual does show in some "heavy duty [which includes cold climates]" 4 year changes on timing belts). Yes I know it's all at main dealer prices but fundamentally I want to know I'm somewhere where I can trust the people are doing the right thing.

I'm with you on that one finding someone you can trust is vital sometimes the little extra is worth the piece of mind , It has been discussed for years about the service policies taken out and how iffy some of them are , just another money making action from vehicle dealers but if you dont know I fully understand that people believe they are doing the right thing and the dealers take full advantage of it. We think we are doing the right thing and then they let us down.

Maybe consider getting the service done early so it is all done at the same time whilst its there and most of the job will be done anyway during the refit (my extensive knowledge I'm making this bit up) a few weeks early is not going to make a difference

See you at Swaffham -you will be there my witchy powers are on your side

 

[Kannon Fodda]

Yep I've asked if they can do the 4 year service - that may depend on the timings of sorting the clutch which they have booked for Monday PM / Tues AM on the ramps, and if they can squeeze that in before I have to collect ready for Swaffham.

At this stage I'll have to hold off on the timing belt, which I am assuming is OK for 5 years (albeit as van has sat for some months over winter months with little use I have no idea if that would have risked the belt). I am going to run out of funds to deal with all this. Piggy bank is now well overdrawn. At this rate I'll be coming out of early retirement

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[Dutch 68]

Yep I've asked if they can do the 4 year service - that may depend on the timings of sorting the clutch which they have booked for Monday PM / Tues AM on the ramps, and if they can squeeze that in before I have to collect ready for Swaffham.

At this stage I'll have to hold off on the timing belt, which I am assuming is OK for 5 years (albeit as van has sat for some months over winter months with little use I have no idea if that would have risked the belt). I am going to run out of funds to deal with all this. Piggy bank is now well overdrawn. At this rate I'll be coming out of early retirement

The price of the belt is next to nothing , it’s the labour involved, you might be so much better off go have a word with them, it might be something which they can help you with on a cost like basis, as with the access they have now to replace the belt, makes it into a half hour job

 

[Badknee]

That’s what they said
Is yours going into Camper UK?

No, local garage I’ve used for ages.

 

[dunnah01]

I know nothing about the Comfortmatic but, as on manual clutch fluid, is stress really a problem, surely it's moisture absorption and the heating and expansion of that moisture, that's the main reason one changes the oil?

Edit: This was written before I had read Rob's update.

That's what I was alluding to. There's much less heat and even though very unlikely any boiling due to moisture absorption will not be a problem compared to fading brakes!

 

[dunnah01]

Update from Adams Morey. The flywheel is definitely OK. The clutch itself needs to be replaced as does the master cylinder which has failed with contamination. Saves £600 for the flywheel but adds £900 for the cylinder . May get van back Tuesday just in time for the Swaffham bash.

Seems clear that not having the fluids checked / changed has contributed to the problem. Regardless of what seems visible the clutch area temps get hot so fluids can start to gum up which affects operation of the cylinder. So it's not just about fluid absorbing moisture. OK I'm not a vehicle engineer so exact method of failure isn't something I understand but in layman's terms the above makes sense to me

I can understand fluid check and change not being part of a standard vehicle service which uses a manual gearbox as it's base. But any reputable service agent who sees it is a Comfortmatic should be offering this as an add on. After all the standard Fiat owners manual shows a need for it.

Hopefully you mean the CSC (slave cylinder) in the clutch bell housing needs replacing and not the master cylinder which is integral with the Comfortmatic hydraulic assembly. £900 seems excessive for the CSC alone so hopefully includes the clutch friction and cover plates aswell, even though it's excessive for these parts too.

 

[jockaneezer]

£900 does seem a lot for just a slave cylinder, hopefully it must include the cost of the clutch too ?
Considering its just the standard manual clutch in it, the only way the fluid would overheat is if the clutch has been slipping excessively or the calibration has been a mile off, letting the clutch "rub" against the flywheel when it should have been fully disengaged ?
Hope things are resolved to your satisfaction and that Fiat help with the bill.

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[tonyidle]

I imagine a lot quicker when it's not FWD transverse engine & box.

I did mine (elderly A class with 2.5TD) in a day & a half of (very) leisurely working. Pull drive shafts, disconnect exhaust & radiator, drop unit onto wooden blocks, split engine & box, replace clutch, reassemble. Engine stayed underneath whilst working on it.

 

[tonyidle]

Is it usual to remove the complete engine just to replace the clutch ?

In my admittedly limited experience it's the easier way to do it.

 

[Silver-Fox]

In my admittedly limited experience it's the easier way to do it.

It would depend on how much room you have between the box and inner wing.

On lots of vehicles it’s tight hence they will drop the engine and box together.

If you do this you’re not working over the wings or under them.
One of the problems with fwd.

 

[dunnah01]

In my admittedly limited experience it's the easier way to do it.

Most of us don't have access to air con evacuate and recharge kit so leaving engine Insitu is usually easiest option.

 

[Kannon Fodda]

Ooh will have to see if the engine was actually removed then. Cab Aircon didn't seem to be working that well on the one warm day of April. A regassing was on list of things to consider, so perhaps that gets solved inadvertently.

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[Nanniemate]

Ooh will have to see if the engine was actually removed then. Cab Aircon didn't seem to be working that well on the one warm day of April. A regassing was on list of things to consider, so perhaps that gets solved inadvertently.

Regassing after 4 years mi e is 14 years old and don't need regassing
Did you have a window open

 

[Kannon Fodda]

Regassing after 4 years mi e is 14 years old and don't need regassing
Did you have a window open

Just didn't seem that effective for chilled air out of the vents, OK not checked with temp gauge. On last service notes, which is probably not worth paper written on, they wanted to regass. I do know that gassing issues seems to be a problem with some vehicles, why else would so many places offer it?

But real issue here remains the Comfortmatic don't work and if i can find a silver lining that some problem I wasn't worried about might get fixed as a side product of a very expensive issue, I'll grab at that benefit.

 

[dunnah01]

Just didn't seem that effective for chilled air out of the vents, OK not checked with temp gauge. On last service notes, which is probably not worth paper written on, they wanted to regass. I do know that gassing issues seems to be a problem with some vehicles, why else would so many places offer it?

But real issue here remains the Comfortmatic don't work and if i can find a silver lining that some problem I wasn't worried about might get fixed as a side product of a very expensive issue, I'll grab at that benefit.

You should get a few service/maintenance items included during your CSC works:
air con regass
new coolant
new gearbox oil
new clutch fluid
possibly new Comfortmatic hydraulic fluid if master cylinder has failed
new clutch driven plate and cover plate
new CSC

things you won't get that will be needed in the next few services:
engine oil & filter
timing belt & water pump
air filter
brake fluid
pollen filter
checks of bits n bobs
I'd really push for these to be done now as the labour savings will be very worth having

 

[Nanniemate]

You should get a few service/maintenance items included during your CSC works:
air con regass
new coolant
new gearbox oil
new clutch fluid
possibly new Comfortmatic hydraulic fluid if master cylinder has failed
new clutch driven plate and cover plate
new CSC

things you won't get that will be needed in the next few services:
engine oil & filter
timing belt & water pump
air filter
brake fluid
pollen filter
checks of bits n bobs
I'd really push for these to be done now as the labour savings will be very worth having

I think you may be right Kannon Fodda a little more on the CC now is not going to make much difference have a look around see if there are any offers on for interest free cards for the first number of months

 

[ChrisL]

Re. air con regassing, it's worth remembering that the gas and the oil is removed and replaced, I believe it is recommended to be done every two years.

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[tonyidle]

Most of us don't have access to air con evacuate and recharge kit so leaving engine Insitu is usually easiest option.

My experience was pre-aircon.

 

[Silver-Fox]

You should get a few service/maintenance items included during your CSC works:
air con regass
new coolant
new gearbox oil
new clutch fluid
possibly new Comfortmatic hydraulic fluid if master cylinder has failed
new clutch driven plate and cover plate
new CSC

things you won't get that will be needed in the next few services:
engine oil & filter
timing belt & water pump
air filter
brake fluid
pollen filter
checks of bits n bobs
I'd really push for these to be done now as the labour savings will be very worth having

I agree I’d definitely get the cam belt with pulleys done with the engine out.

 

[Tea Bag]

It would depend on how much room you have between the box and inner wing.

On lots of vehicles it’s tight hence they will drop the engine and box together.

If you do this you’re not working over the wings or under them.
One of the problems with fwd.

Hi.
Our local village " Go to fix Fitter/mechanic..vehicle technician .. ? ) Paolo,was sorting the Renault MASTER.... ( Mini Magnum lorry ) ready for it to come back to the uk to change for the Ducato. He said then...." WHAT ?...there is NO room in the engine bay !! " This was brought home to me when doing the simplest of jobs on the Fiat... Filling the wiper washer bottle...... To be fair,the Ducato ticks all the boxes except straight line speed.... DOH !! Its comfy and a joy to drive ( Nearly I miss that speed in a straight line.... No more " Kummin' Threws or Sniff my Diff's " still Jennifers happy.
Tea Bag.. ( I feel the need,the need for...SPEED !! )

 

[dunnah01]

Hi.
Our local village " Go to fix Fitter/mechanic..vehicle technician .. ? ) Paolo,was sorting the Renault MASTER.... ( Mini Magnum lorry ) ready for it to come back to the uk to change for the Ducato. He said then...." WHAT ?...there is NO room in the engine bay !! " This was brought home to me when doing the simplest of jobs on the Fiat... Filling the wiper washer bottle...... To be fair,the Ducato ticks all the boxes except straight line speed.... DOH !! Its comfy and a joy to drive ( Nearly I miss that speed in a straight line.... No more " Kummin' Threws or Sniff my Diff's " still Jennifers happy.
Tea Bag.. ( I feel the need,the need for...SPEED !! )

Ha Ha - no room in the engine bay - pah. Did (n't do - don't ask) the clutch on the Smart roadster the other week - now that's a small engine bay full of more bits than the Ducato. Only had to release the engine/gearbox mounts and tilt a whole lot bit to get the gearbox out.

 

[WESTY66]

On a tangent is the agile box the same as the comfortmatic, only north to south??

And yes I know it’s just as bad!! Just wondering

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