Joined the Comfortmatic failure club

[Steve and Denise]

There’s not many moho places that will touch you unless you bought from them!!
I rung premium motorhomes (local Carthago dealer) to ask about the airbag module, and they wouldn’t give me the time of day!! So it looks like I have to buy the module and find somewhere to get it proxy aligned

we bought from those clowns and can confidently say I would not have them near our van

 

[Steve and Denise]

Mine says CHECK oil every 48,000kmView attachment 754031
That’s in the comfortmatic supplement!!

Confused?? You bet

The 2 year window is mainly to check for moisture content of the fluid.
As with all hydraulic brake/clutch systems.

 

[dunnah01]

The Comfortmatic Manual is where I'm at withthe whole thing

 

[WESTY66]

Fiat say change the clutch fluid every 48,000km or 2 years.

I think it says CHECK not change Lenny HB

 

[dunnah01]

The 2 year window is mainly to check for moisture content of the fluid.
As with all hydraulic brake/clutch systems.

And if the clutch fluid boils up nothing much will happen. I find it hard to think of any circumstances where there would be enough heat transfer to the CSC to cause it to boil. Oh except for my mum driving her Auris but she's nearly 90..

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[Pausim]

Mine says CHECK fluid every 48,000kmView attachment 754031
That’s in the comfortmatic supplement!!

Confused?? You bet

Same as my schedule 30K miles or 48K km for a check and 60K/96K for replacement, or 4 years.

 

[WESTY66]

Same as my schedule 30K miles or 48K km for a check and 60K/96K for replacement, or 4 years.

Nope it says CHECK at 96k

 

[RandallC]

is‘nt it worth changing the DMF while they are doing the clutch for what it costs?

DMF was £550 a couple of years ago fom Adams Morey. The PAIN still lingers, which is why the CM had to go 4 recoverys in 2019 was more than enough.

 

[jockaneezer]

Is it usual to remove the complete engine just to replace the clutch ?

 

[Ditcha]

Is it usual to remove the complete engine just to replace the clutch ?

They were just changing the light bulb apparently

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[Kannon Fodda]

I think the Comfortmatic supplement was for some of the earlier, perhaps X250, type Ducatos. That may have slightly different recommendations for servicing. My X290 type has all the Comfortmatic service schedules and instructions integrated to the main handbook, as some of the images above.

My 2019 manual states:
Check Comfortmatic transmission hydraulic system fluid level (3) (*) - 2 year intervals : 30/60/90/120 miles
Check oil for hydraulic clutch activation system (for versions with Comfortmatic) (3) (*) - 2 year intervals: 30/60/90/120 miles
Change oil for hydraulic clutch activation system (for versions with Comfortmatic) (4) (*) - 4 year intervals: 60/120miles
Notes:
(3) - Check to be performed every year if using the vehicle in cold weather areas
(4) - or every 2 years
(*) - to check the transmission fluid and to check/change the clutch hydraulic system fluid go to a Fiat Dealership

Now I'm not sure at what point "cold weather" rules would kick in, but in the UK we do get freezing temps that I think most would agree is cold. So my interpretation is the clutch activation oils should have been changed a year ago but my service plan ignored that.

Fiat's recommendation to change of fluids in their more recent manuals is no doubt based on their history of issues. Just a shame that hasn't been communicated to the vehicle vendors and their wider service agents. We know that brake type hydraulic fluids are intended to work at high temperatures. But the hydraulics of the Comfortmatic cylinders are no doubt different to brakes, even if fluids in use are similar. Check for moisture isn't enough, especially if just at the reservoir. If the fluids are risking getting hot (and some say they can see theirs is a dark grey even black colour suggesting deposits occur) and that residue is getting trapped at the cylinders, then one can see that, regardless of expectations and experience, there are hidden risks and the fluids should be changed as part of servicing.

What colour would the fluids be when new? When I was prodding around looking for any clues, I found the reservoir thingy ( on the left side of the engine bay) liquid was a dark grey tinge. If this fluid should be a clear or other pigmented colour it would no doubt indicate reasons for change to have been overdue.

 

[WESTY66]

Is it usual to remove the complete engine just to replace the clutch ?

Sometimes it’s easier to drop the whole unit in one go, which is great if you have the tackle and Know-how

 

[Bessy765]

I cant have a lot of confidence in our local Fiat approved garage for getting the fluid checked or changed. I took the van in for it’s first (2 year) service) when I went to collect it I went to pay and was told no charge when I queried it the lady went to check and came back and told me the mechanic said as it had not done many miles 8773 that it did not need servicing.

 

[WESTY66]

I think the Comfortmatic supplement was for some of the earlier, perhaps X250, type Ducatos. That may have slightly different recommendations for servicing. My X290 type has all the Comfortmatic service schedules and instructions integrated to the main handbook, as some of the images above.

My 2019 manual states:
Check Comfortmatic transmission hydraulic system fluid level (3) (*) - 2 year intervals : 30/60/90/120 miles
Check oil for hydraulic clutch activation system (for versions with Comfortmatic) (3) (*) - 2 year intervals: 30/60/90/120 miles
Change oil for hydraulic clutch activation system (for versions with Comfortmatic) (4) (*) - 4 year intervals: 60/120miles
Notes:
(3) - Check to be performed every year if using the vehicle in cold weather areas
(4) - or every 2 years
(*) - to check the transmission fluid and to check/change the clutch hydraulic system fluid go to a Fiat Dealership

Now I'm not sure at what point "cold weather" rules would kick in, but in the UK we do get freezing temps that I think most would agree is cold. So my interpretation is the clutch activation oils should have been changed a year ago but my service plan ignored that.

Fiat's recommendation to change of fluids in their more recent manuals is no doubt based on their history of issues. Just a shame that hasn't been communicated to the vehicle vendors and their wider service agents. We know that brake type hydraulic fluids are intended to work at high temperatures. But the hydraulics of the Comfortmatic cylinders are no doubt different to brakes, even if fluids in use are similar. Check for moisture isn't enough, especially if just at the reservoir. If the fluids are risking getting hot (and some say they can see theirs is a dark grey even black colour suggesting deposits occur) and that residue is getting trapped at the cylinders, then one can see that, regardless of expectations and experience, there are hidden risks and the fluids should be changed as part of servicing.

What colour would the fluids be when new? When I was prodding around looking for any clues, I found the reservoir thingy ( on the left side of the engine bay) liquid was a dark grey tinge. If this fluid should be a clear or other pigmented colour it would no doubt indicate reasons for change to have been overdue.

Well that explains a lot regarding the checking/changing of fluids!
I’m sure I used to used a silicon based brake fluid on my Honda sports bikes, 5.1 rings a bell and that stuff doesn’t let water in so it can’t boil up (I think). Can’t that be used in the comfortmatic brakes and clutch?

Then again I could be talking rubbish

 

[dunnah01]

I think the Comfortmatic supplement was for some of the earlier, perhaps X250, type Ducatos. That may have slightly different recommendations for servicing. My X290 type has all the Comfortmatic service schedules and instructions integrated to the main handbook, as some of the images above.

My 2019 manual states:
Check Comfortmatic transmission hydraulic system fluid level (3) (*) - 2 year intervals : 30/60/90/120 miles
Check oil for hydraulic clutch activation system (for versions with Comfortmatic) (3) (*) - 2 year intervals: 30/60/90/120 miles
Change oil for hydraulic clutch activation system (for versions with Comfortmatic) (4) (*) - 4 year intervals: 60/120miles
Notes:
(3) - Check to be performed every year if using the vehicle in cold weather areas
(4) - or every 2 years
(*) - to check the transmission fluid and to check/change the clutch hydraulic system fluid go to a Fiat Dealership

Now I'm not sure at what point "cold weather" rules would kick in, but in the UK we do get freezing temps that I think most would agree is cold. So my interpretation is the clutch activation oils should have been changed a year ago but my service plan ignored that.

Fiat's recommendation to change of fluids in their more recent manuals is no doubt based on their history of issues. Just a shame that hasn't been communicated to the vehicle vendors and their wider service agents. We know that brake type hydraulic fluids are intended to work at high temperatures. But the hydraulics of the Comfortmatic cylinders are no doubt different to brakes, even if fluids in use are similar. Check for moisture isn't enough, especially if just at the reservoir. If the fluids are risking getting hot (and some say they can see theirs is a dark grey even black colour suggesting deposits occur) and that residue is getting trapped at the cylinders, then one can see that, regardless of expectations and experience, there are hidden risks and the fluids should be changed as part of servicing.

What colour would the fluids be when new? When I was prodding around looking for any clues, I found the reservoir thingy ( on the left side of the engine bay) liquid was a dark grey tinge. If this fluid should be a clear or other pigmented colour it would no doubt indicate reasons for change to have been overdue.

The Comfortmatic hydraulics use ATF Dexron III fluid which is in a recycling sealed system and can't be changed without special equipment. Only the clutch actuation part uses DOT 4 brake/clutch fluid and is very similar to the manual transmission system of Master/Slave cylinder. Your garage are saying it's the clutch part that's failed so I wouldn't over complicate things with the separate Comfortmatic actuator bit.

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[Lenny HB]

Can’t that be used in the comfortmatic brakes and clutch?

No, the cylinders need different materials for the seals for the different fluids.

 

[Lenny HB]

Initially I could hear whirring when the door was opened as part of the hydraulics pressurised in anticipation the engine was to be started,

Not heard of that before but the only time open my drivers door is when I stop for fuel. We always use the hab door.

 

[dunnah01]

Not heard of that before but the only time open my drivers door is when I stop for fuel. We always use the hab door.

The pump only primes if the pressure is below a threshold so if you use your van regularly it probably won't need to top up the pressure when the door is opened.

 

[CAB96]

Oh dear that’s not good! Just out of interest are the vw a converter box or robotic?

Crafters are DSG, like the Transporter.

 

[dunnah01]

Crafters are DSG, like the Transporter.

VW DSG is a robotic manual same as the Comfortmatic but the dual clutch makes it a quicker change. The clutch bit is pretty reliable and the gearbox has the same reliability reputation as the GM unit in the Comfortmatic.

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[Steve-N]

Wow - they are making a lot of extra work there - if it's a 2.3 then may aswell do the timing belt etc whilst the engine is out

Pretty standard, my Fiat professional dealer advised that he could remove the gearbox/clutch with the engine remaining insitu, but Fita insisted the removed the both as one complete unit..
Picture of my van back in November 22 awaiting parts

 

[dunnah01]

Pretty standard, my Fiat professional dealer advised that he could remove the gearbox/clutch with the engine remaining insitu, but Fita insisted the removed the both as one complete unit..
Picture of my van back in November 22 awaiting parts

View attachment 754203

I bet any clutch fitting centre would laugh their bits off at the Fiat advice. Fiat don't appear to have any interest in saving labour time and charges for non warranty work.

 

[Jo662]

DMF was £550 a couple of years ago fom Adams Morey. The PAIN still lingers, which is why the CM had to go 4 recoverys in 2019 was more than enough.

I paid £220 for a DMF from a motor factor three years ago when my clutch needed changing. I bought a LUK one ,which was the same as the original one.
Fiat take the pi$$ with there inflated prices.

 

[JockandRita]

I paid £220 for a DMF from a motor factor three years ago when my clutch needed changing. I bought a LUK one ,which was the same as the original one.
Fiat take the pi$$ with there inflated prices.

Exactly, and the LUK parts come with the same warranty period and conditions as the over inflated Fiat parts.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[Badknee]

supposedly Fiat Professionals and asked them what the cost would be to check/change the fluids and they said they don’t offer that service

So they don’t change brake fluid at the recommended four years as the clutch fluid is in the same reservoir? Ours is going in June 1st to have both changed.

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[Lisa]

So they don’t change brake fluid at the recommended four years as the clutch fluid is in the same reservoir? Ours is going in June 1st to have both changed.

That’s what they said
Is yours going into Camper UK?

 

[Pausim]

That’s what they said
Is yours going into Camper UK?

Are they saying they don’t do it as a separate item or are they saying they don’t do it as part of the regular Fiat servicing? They need challenging on this, perhaps you need to talk to the service manager and point out that it is part of the service schedule.

 

[Lisa]

Are they saying they don’t do it as a separate item or are they saying they don’t do it as part of the regular Fiat servicing? They need challenging on this, perhaps you need to talk to the service manager and point out that it is part of the service schedule.

We did challenge this and asked her to double check, as well as questioning it under a service. The answer was still no.

I’d be interested to know if anyone has had theirs done at Camper UK?….

 

[dunnah01]

So they don’t change brake fluid at the recommended four years as the clutch fluid is in the same reservoir? Ours is going in June 1st to have both changed.

The brakes and clutch systems are separate in the Comfortmatic so the clutch fluid has even less stress than the manual version.

 

[Kannon Fodda]

Update from Adams Morey. The flywheel is definitely OK. The clutch itself needs to be replaced as does the master cylinder which has failed with contamination. Saves £600 for the flywheel but adds £900 for the cylinder . May get van back Tuesday just in time for the Swaffham bash.

Seems clear that not having the fluids checked / changed has contributed to the problem. Regardless of what seems visible the clutch area temps get hot so fluids can start to gum up which affects operation of the cylinder. So it's not just about fluid absorbing moisture. OK I'm not a vehicle engineer so exact method of failure isn't something I understand but in layman's terms the above makes sense to me

I can understand fluid check and change not being part of a standard vehicle service which uses a manual gearbox as it's base. But any reputable service agent who sees it is a Comfortmatic should be offering this as an add on. After all the standard Fiat owners manual shows a need for it.

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