Is the EV motorhome starting to look to be a viable prospect ?

[Guigsy]

Electric cars were in existence in the late 1800's / early 1900's, and they have still not been perfected, so what is going to happen in 8 years that has not been achieves in 120 years ????

Batteries were invented over 200 years ago. But thankfully the technology is still being refined. Or we'd be lugging half a ton of zinc and silver around us to keep our mobile phones running for a day.

 

[Coolcats]

I still say no thanks. Hydrogen will always be more expensive than electric. And electric doesn't go boom. Sorry not for me. And after the first one does go boom I expect a lot of people to be put off too.

Thats Fine Gromett as I have outlined its personal choice,

Have you seen what happens when a petrol car explodes or how about a Gas Boiler? Lithium Fires are notoriously difficult to put out and even if they do they will pick the vehicle up with a fork lift and dump int in to a skip full of water if they think there is still a risk of ignition.

There is currently only a 10p per mile difference in MPG cost between a Corsa and a Corsa E so the savings are not huge.

Stored energy in any form is a risk if it goes up in flames.

This link shows that a leak will just cause a fire Hydrogen does not go Boom anymore than a Petrol leak Both are dangerous and a risk

 

[Gromett]

Thats Fine Gromett as I have outlined its personal choice,

Have you seen what happens when a petrol car explodes or how about a Gas Boiler? Lithium Fires are notoriously difficult to put out and even if they do they will pick the vehicle up with a fork lift and dump int in to a skip full of water if they think there is still a risk of ignition.

There is currently only a 10p per mile difference in MPG cost between a Corsa and a Corsa E so the savings are not huge.

Stored energy in any form is a risk if it goes up in flames.

This link shows that a leak will just cause a fire Hydrogen does not go Boom anymore than a Petrol leak Both are dangerous and a risk

Lithium fires, yup, Petrol Burns, yup. But lithium and petrol doesn't explode like hydrogen does.

10p per mile difference? That is a lot. Every 10 miles that is £1 saved.

I love it when people give this video as an example of hydrogen not exploding.... That hydrogen car looks like it has a pipe from the tank up through the boot and a pipe taking it some distance from the car. That is not a realistic demonstration in my view.

AND hydrogen most definitely does explode.

 

[Coolcats]

Lithium fires, yup, Petrol Burns, yup. But lithium and petrol doesn't explode like hydrogen does.

Petrol explodes and will kill the occupant of a car, if Hydrogen did you would have the same result

10p per mile difference? That is a lot. Every 10 miles that is £1 saved.

So given an equvilant EV is 10-20 30K more then that's a lot of miles The Corsa E was something like 80000 Miles and for the average user that's 11 years to break even at .10P per mile

I love it when people give this video as an example of hydrogen not exploding.... That hydrogen car looks like it has a pipe from the tank up through the boot and a pipe taking it some distance from the car. That is not a realistic demonstration in my view.

AND hydrogen most definitely does explode.

I would be happy to drive a Hydrogen vehicle safety will be built in there have been times in the past where class action has meant manufactures have had to pay out huge sums The ford Criminal trial 1980

Gas Tank Fires: The $4.9 Billion Verdict Against General Motors for the Explosion of 1979 Chevrolet Malibu​

I think you need to stop finding ways of putting Hydrogen down, the Market place will decide Gromett, totally respect that your an EV fan and want one but there are some great engineers and scientists out there working for manufactures that could make this happen which will benefit us and the world.

 

[Gromett]

Petrol explodes and will kill the occupant of a car, if Hydrogen did you would have the same result

When was the last time you saw a petrol explosion from a car? Petrol tends to burn not explode. Hydrogen tends to explode not burn.

So given an equvilant EV is 10-20 30K more then that's a lot of miles The Corsa E was something like 80000 Miles and for the average user that's 11 years to break even at .10P per mile

You said the savings aren't huge, you didn't say the payback time in comparison.

I would be happy to drive a Hydrogen vehicle safety will be built in there have been times in the past where class action has meant manufactures have had to pay out huge sums The ford Criminal trial 1980

Gas Tank Fires: The $4.9 Billion Verdict Against General Motors for the Explosion of 1979 Chevrolet Malibu​

I think you need to stop finding ways of putting Hydrogen down, the Market place will decide Gromett, totally respect that your an EV fan and want one but there are some great engineers and scientists out there working for manufactures that could make this happen which will benefit us and the world.

I am not putting hydrogen down, I am simply pointing out the problems with it. I have also stated where it is a fantastic choice and the great uses it can be put to.

You do realise that most hydrogen cars are EV's? ie they use electric to drive the wheels??? The only difference between a hydrogen FCEV and a BEV is how the energy is stored.

The market place has already decided about hydrogen. That is why you see so many BEV's on the road and so few hydrogen ones.

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[Coolcats]

When was the last time you saw a petrol explosion from a car? Petrol tends to burn not explode. Hydrogen tends to explode not burn.

This your opinion how many have exploded in the U.K. in the past 3 years?

You said the savings aren't huge, you didn't say the payback time in comparison.

I don’t need to I posted the BBC radio4 thread and if you listen you will hear the comparisons

I am not putting hydrogen down, I am simply pointing out the problems with it. I have also stated where it is a fantastic choice and the great uses it can be put to.

There are problems with Diesel, Petrol, EV and Hydrogen the latter two are viewed as green technology edited to say ZF/BMW Punch Toyota and Kawasaki as previously posted are Ice engines converted to run on Hydrogen

You do realise that most hydrogen cars are EV's? ie they use electric to drive the wheels??? The only difference between a hydrogen FCEV and a BEV is how the energy is stored.

Some are but as previously posted JCB are using their existing Diesel engines and from what has been published the ability to retrofit existing vehicles now that’s what you call a green pathway.

The market place has already decided about hydrogen. That is why you see so many BEV's on the road and so few hydrogen ones.

The Market is still evolving and even then will develop further when new technologies and materials emerge.

 

[minesapint]

I've been driving an electric car over 6 years, a fantastic success of a superior vehicle. I'm looking forward to an electric Moho. The prospect of not having timing belts, clutches, dmf, alternator, coolant leaks, water pump failure, oil changes, fuel filter leaks, the ability to preheat excites me. All the negative in this thread they said about wheels on suitcases. Font knock it til you've tried it.

EV may be OK if you do not intend to travel more than 50 miles out and 50 back, but on our one stop trip down through spain from Bilbao it would be about as much use as the eu.

 

[minesapint]

When was the last time you saw a petrol explosion from a car? Petrol tends to burn not explode. Hydrogen tends to explode not burn.


You said the savings aren't huge, you didn't say the payback time in comparison.


I am not putting hydrogen down, I am simply pointing out the problems with it. I have also stated where it is a fantastic choice and the great uses it can be put to.

You do realise that most hydrogen cars are EV's? ie they use electric to drive the wheels??? The only difference between a hydrogen FCEV and a BEV is how the energy is stored.

The market place has already decided about hydrogen. That is why you see so many BEV's on the road and so few hydrogen one

All vehicles can burn but one lithium catches fire you have a big problem.

A car carrying ship the Felicity Ace, caught fire, burnt out and sank. The cause of the fire is suspected lithium batteries in the ev cars.
===

• Portuguese navy rescues 22 crew members from burning cargo ship in Atlantic Ocean

It was not clear how many luxury cars were onboard, but vessels of the Felicity Ace’s size can carry at least 4,000 vehicles.

The ship was transporting electric and non-electric vehicles, according to Portuguese authorities.

Authorities suspect the fire may have broken out due to the lithium batteries used in electric vehicles, but an investigation into the cause of the blaze is still underway.

 

[CazPaul]

Thats Fine Gromett as I have outlined its personal choice,

Have you seen what happens when a petrol car explodes or how about a Gas Boiler? Lithium Fires are notoriously difficult to put out and even if they do they will pick the vehicle up with a fork lift and dump int in to a skip full of water if they think there is still a risk of ignition.

There is currently only a 10p per mile difference in MPG cost between a Corsa and a Corsa E so the savings are not huge.

Stored energy in any form is a risk if it goes up in flames.

This link shows that a leak will just cause a fire Hydrogen does not go Boom anymore than a Petrol leak Both are dangerous and a risk

I am amazed at how many times in the news up here in the north east that you see a house/or 2 mid terraces destroyed in a gas explosion, another 2 this week in Sunderland, totally flattened.

 

[Gromett]

I am amazed at how many times in the news up here in the north east that you see a house/or 2 mid terraces destroyed in a gas explosion, another 2 this week in Sunderland, totally flattened.

And hydrogen has a wider explosive range and a faster rate of burn. It really does explode. The damage from a hydrogen explosion is a magnitude worse than a natural gas one.

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[Coolcats]

And hydrogen has a wider explosive range and a faster rate of burn. It really does explode. The damage from a hydrogen explosion is a magnitude worse than a natural gas one.

Fact Check says No

WHAT WAS CLAIMED​

Hydrogen boilers could cause four times as many explosions and injuries than conventional boilers.

OUR VERDICT​

A model estimated that hydrogen boilers would cause more explosions and injuries if used without safety valves. With the valves, the risk from the two systems was about the same.

 

[Coolcats]

I am amazed at how many times in the news up here in the north east that you see a house/or 2 mid terraces destroyed in a gas explosion, another 2 this week in Sunderland, totally flattened.

Is this because of poor or no maintenance? The house next to me is owned by a Landlord, I went in to fix a couple of things for them and smelt Gas, looking at stickers etc on the appliances no Gas maintenance had been carried out for about 8 years. When My wife was living at her parents home she came back from work to find a Fire engine outside the house a Neighbour had smelled gas, it turned out it was a ruptured feed pipe. My guess is those Mid terraces would have been flattened Hydrogen or Natural Gas.

 

[Gromett]

Fact Check says No

WHAT WAS CLAIMED​

Hydrogen boilers could cause four times as many explosions and injuries than conventional boilers.

OUR VERDICT​

A model estimated that hydrogen boilers would cause more explosions and injuries if used without safety valves. With the valves, the risk from the two systems was about the same.

I never mentioned the risk. I mentioned the effect. I suspect the risk factor to be about the same as a badly maintained natural gas system is likely to be as prevalent as a badly maintained hydrogen system.

However, when it does go wrong the effects of a hydrogen explosion are far, far worse which WAS my point.

 

[Coolcats]

I never mentioned the risk. I mentioned the effect. I suspect the risk factor to be about the same as a badly maintained natural gas system is likely to be as prevalent as a badly maintained hydrogen system.

However, when it does go wrong the effects of a hydrogen explosion are far, far worse which WAS my point.

My guess is an explosion is an so to make sure it doesn’t happen to you people need to ensure 1) the systems are maintained 2) government legislation to ensure annual checks are done 3) fit a gas Hydrogen or natural gas detector.

If people took the same stand when they went from candles to gas or petrol my guess we would still be in the 16th century, we live with risks all the time these risks are mitigated by controls that are put in place. You could argue don’t put Lithium batteries in your home for solar storage as you can’t put them out with a fire blanket.

 

[Gromett]

My guess is an explosion is an so to make sure it doesn’t happen to you people need to ensure 1) the systems are maintained 2) government legislation to ensure annual checks are done 3) fit a gas Hydrogen or natural gas detector.

Yup, in an ideal world the systems would be maintained correctly, annual checks done and safety equipment in place. But you KNOW that it doesn't happen so there will be explosions the same as there are now.

If people took the same stand when they went from candles to gas or petrol my guess we would still be in the 16th century, we live with risks all the time these risks are mitigated by controls that are put in place. You could argue don’t put Lithium batteries in your home for solar storage as you can’t put them out with a fire blanket.

But I can argue that you should only use LiFePO4 chemistry in batteries to be used inside a home. They do not burn like the LiCoO2 chemistry or other high nickel chemistries you find in long range cars. LiFePO4 batteries do not burn like the high density ones required for phones and cars.

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[Coolcats]

Yup, in an ideal world the systems would be maintained correctly, annual checks done and safety equipment in place. But you KNOW that it doesn't happen so there will be explosions the same as there are now.

Maybe Gromett but just like Natural Gas there will be great sadness and loss when it happens, along with lessons learnt the world will turn a bit more and there will be an acceptance that 0.0000X sometimes happens and its accepted just like some one will come along and stick their fingers in an electric socket or place a larger fuse in a plug as the lower rated ones keep blowing.

But I can argue that you should only use LiFePO4 chemistry in batteries to be used inside a home. They do not burn like the LiCoO2 chemistry or other high nickel chemistries you find in long range cars. LiFePO4 batteries do not burn like the high density ones required for phones and cars.

I am sure you can Gromett, however the EV industry also promotes the use of used car batteries being used to store power at home, so who knows how these markets and legislation around it will eventually shape up:

Second life: batteries as power storage for homes, industry and energy generation​

Used electric-car batteries can live on in their complete state as power storage for homes and industry. For example, in April 2021 Volvo reaffirmed its commitment to becoming a "circular business" by 2040, creating a "closed loop'' that'll see all the materials in its cars recycled.

As part of this, the Swedish carmaker announced a project to explore the potential of second-life applications for its high-voltage batteries. One element of this is a collaboration with BatteryLoop that sees batteries from electrified Volvo cars used for a solar energy storage system. This powers charging points for electrified cars and electric bikes at Swedish healthcare company Essity’s premises near Gothenburg.

 

[Gromett]

Maybe Gromett but just like Natural Gas there will be great sadness and loss when it happens, along with lessons learnt the world will turn a bit more and there will be an acceptance that 0.0000X sometimes happens and its accepted just like some one will come along and stick their fingers in an electric socket or place a larger fuse in a plug as the lower rated ones keep blowing.

You are missing my point. When natural gas explodes it is usually contained to the house it happens in with perhaps in some case the attached next door neighbour being seriously affected as well. With a hydrogen explosion it is likely to affect whole street. I am assuming you haven't seen a hydrogen boom yet?

I am sure you can Gromett, however the EV industry also promotes the use of used car batteries being used to store power at home, so who knows how these markets and legislation around it will eventually shape up:

Second life: batteries as power storage for homes, industry and energy generation​

Used electric-car batteries can live on in their complete state as power storage for homes and industry. For example, in April 2021 Volvo reaffirmed its commitment to becoming a "circular business" by 2040, creating a "closed loop'' that'll see all the materials in its cars recycled.

NO the EV industry does not promote the use of used car batteries for the home. That is silly. They promote them for second life usage in storage application usually for grid balancing or for renewable storage. I have not seen a serious industry source suggest car batteries be used in the home. They are usually not in a format that is practical for this usage and are of the wrong voltage...

As part of this, the Swedish carmaker announced a project to explore the potential of second-life applications for its high-voltage batteries. One element of this is a collaboration with BatteryLoop that sees batteries from electrified Volvo cars used for a solar energy storage system. This powers charging points for electrified cars and electric bikes at Swedish healthcare company Essity’s premises near Gothenburg.

Yes, this is how they will be used NOT in homes.

 

[Gromett]

Coolcats it appears Nissan are using car batteries in domestic applications. That doesn't seem wise to me... I apologise I got that one wrong I wasn't aware of this one.

 

[cyberyacht]

Bear in mind the carbon footprint of your shiny new EV against keeping the oil burner you have.

 

[Vipar]

Worth a look. This is what I have on order same colour cost me with discounts £27,000

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[nicholsong]

Worth a look. This is what I have on order same colour cost me with discounts £27,000

I have never spent more than £5,000 on a car and that was a 3 year BMW 320i

Last buy was a Honda HR-V at 13 years old 7 years ago for £2K, still looks and performs v. well.

Are you guys mega-rich? Because I think I am quite rich.

 

[Vipar]

Sold the MH to buy it. I didn’t get full value out of the van and no good leaving money in the bank no interest so spend it before I die

 

[nicholsong]

Sold the MH to buy it. I didn’t get full value out of the van and no good leaving money in the bank no interest so spend it before I die

I was not commenting on you spending your £27K - but on a 'set of wheels'?

When you could have got a good S/H for say £8K, and have the rest for other toys - or a good party?

You can see I do not put much store in my transport, except the MH, of course.

 

[SpeedyDux]

I'm old enough to remember EVs first time around - I wonder why they didn't gain any traction then?

View attachment 603205

Our milk delivery is by a diesel milk truck. Back to the future ...

 

[SpeedyDux]

A few things in my experience aren't quite right. We have MAN 3500kg EVs, they carry the same as their diesel equivilents apart from not being LWB. The weight versus volume is very dependent on the day, the time of year, and almost every other factor you can think of. Some pet food supplier does a special on 30kg dried dog food and all of sudden the day is very heavy!!
Up front costs are ridiculously high and even with the grant for purchase price and help with the ev charger, its still too early to say how cost effective it is. Typically the stop rate for ev vehicles is lower than fossil fuelled vehicles because it is believed that the running costs are lower. BUT with the cost of energy prices soaring through the roof this might not be the case. I have an EV tariff with Octopus which gives me 5p/Kw between 0030 and 0430, then at all other times is 25p/Kw. The depot has a flat rate of 25p and not enough chargers for the whole ev fleet, apparently there is a issue with the sites electrical design and what it can handle and presumably what the local substation can supply....I don't know the ins and outs of that but I do know that they had to install faster chargers for the MANs and that reduced the capacity for the Maxus and Nissans.
Ev vans suffer greatly with payload vs driving style and the effective range. One of our city centre drivers struggled to do his route because of his driving style. There is an argument that the way the vans are driven, loaded etc is due to the pressures of having to do your route in a certain way ie morning rush hour traffic, lack of loading bays, people parking in loading bays especially with the massive increase in uber/deliveroo/just eat drivers hogging them, deliveries having to be done before 1030, 1200 etc.
With regards to running them...my insurance is higher than having a LWB Sprinter. The Sprinter was a 316 auto which did a 52 mile round trip commute and on average 50 route miles/day, it averaged 40 mpg. The Milk Float, as I call it, does the same mileage but struggles to get 35 mpg. In fairness, with time the mpg might increase but I'm still not convinced that it is the way forward.

You raise a good point about the present distribution infrastructure and capacity. Little has been said about the cost of replacing and upgrading this at local level to cope with the extra demand for charging EVs (and the extra demand from domestic heat pumps). How many Billions will this require, and will there even be enough copper to provide all the cabling if many other countries follow the UK down the Net-Zero route? Streets will need to be dug up, again. Look how long it is taking Openreach to roll out fibre BB to all homes.

The other fundamental question that is also largely ignored is where will the necessary increase in electricity generation capacity come from. From elsewhere:

"At the point of use the UK consumes about 1,500 Terawatt hours of energy per year. (A terawatt hour is a billion kilowatt hours). A fully electrified country would save a bit on heating and transport (electric cars are more efficient) so the future need comes out at something like 800 to 1,200 TWh (largely depending upon the rollout of heat pumps). Generating that requires 100GW to 150GW of electricity generation running continuously. That’s 25 to 35 Sizewell Cs or about 200 to 300 of the Rolls-Royce small modular reactors.

The UK’s current installed generating capacity (all types) is around 76GW, and in 2020 (the latest available figures) it delivered about 310 TWh. That’s just a quarter of our needs; the other 75 per cent came from fossil fuels (as did about 40 per cent of the electricity). So we need three or four times as much electricity generation and if it’s to be non-emitting that will have to be nuclear, wind, solar or fossil fuel with CO2 capture (which takes 20 to 30 per cent of the power produced and gives the problem of what to do with the captured carbon)."

It is all very well for the early adopters on this forum to tell us how marvellous it is to own an EV. The reality is that as ICEs are phased out, so will mass personal transport by private car be phased out. People on low incomes can forget it. Back on the buses, tough.

The foreseeable overall limit on electricity generation and distribution implies some kind of rationing by priority user otherwise the lights will go out. The reality is that the required number of new nuclear power stations isn't in the Government's latest energy and net-zero emissions strategy. There is over-reliance on more wind energy, and more absurd expansion of solar farms (which is so inefficient at the UK's latitude and hopeless in winter).

Same consideration goes for EV motorhomes. Car charging points are for vehicles under 5m. I am sceptical regarding a limited number of fast chargers for EV goods trucks becoming readily accessible to motorhomes. Unlike EV trucks and EV delivery vans we won't be priority users. That leaves us with home charging, and maybe charging facilities on Club or private campsites. The other possibility of EV cars tugging lightweight caravans is the more likely future scenario. I wish it wasn't.

Personally, I feel that a MH powered by a hydrogen fuel cell would be nicer than a diesel one at some point in the future. I am with Coolcats on this. Unless there is huge investment in the infrastructure to make and distribute hydrogen as a fuel that won't happen.

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[68c]

I once read a Sci Fi story whrreby a modern jetfighter was magically transported to the first world war. Being American they of course decided to fight on the allies side. Asked for a refuel, the nearest they could get was paraffin, "How much do you need?", "About 1,000 gallons for the moment". Took a while but it was provided. After an hour trying to shoot down slow wooden bi-planes with cool running piston engines they returned with little success. When asking fir a refuel it was pointed out they had used all there was in the area and with nothing shot down".
The point of course is technology only works in a complete system geared up to support it.

 

[Gromett]

I'm old enough to remember EVs first time around - I wonder why they didn't gain any traction then?

View attachment 603205

Lithium batteries and Silicon Carbide MOSFets...

 

[Coolcats]

You raise a good point about the present distribution infrastructure and capacity. Little has been said about the cost of replacing and upgrading this at local level to cope with the extra demand for charging EVs (and the extra demand from domestic heat pumps). How many Billions will this require, and will there even be enough copper to provide all the cabling if many other countries follow the UK down the Net-Zero route? Streets will need to be dug up, again. Look how long it is taking Openreach to roll out fibre BB to all homes.

The other fundamental question that is also largely ignored is where will the necessary increase in electricity generation capacity come from. From elsewhere:

"At the point of use the UK consumes about 1,500 Terawatt hours of energy per year. (A terawatt hour is a billion kilowatt hours). A fully electrified country would save a bit on heating and transport (electric cars are more efficient) so the future need comes out at something like 800 to 1,200 TWh (largely depending upon the rollout of heat pumps). Generating that requires 100GW to 150GW of electricity generation running continuously. That’s 25 to 35 Sizewell Cs or about 200 to 300 of the Rolls-Royce small modular reactors.

The UK’s current installed generating capacity (all types) is around 76GW, and in 2020 (the latest available figures) it delivered about 310 TWh. That’s just a quarter of our needs; the other 75 per cent came from fossil fuels (as did about 40 per cent of the electricity). So we need three or four times as much electricity generation and if it’s to be non-emitting that will have to be nuclear, wind, solar or fossil fuel with CO2 capture (which takes 20 to 30 per cent of the power produced and gives the problem of what to do with the captured carbon)."

It is all very well for the early adopters on this forum to tell us how marvellous it is to own an EV. The reality is that as ICEs are phased out, so will mass personal transport by private car be phased out. People on low incomes can forget it. Back on the buses, tough.

The foreseeable overall limit on electricity generation and distribution implies some kind of rationing by priority user otherwise the lights will go out. The reality is that the required number of new nuclear power stations isn't in the Government's latest energy and net-zero emissions strategy. There is over-reliance on more wind energy, and more absurd expansion of solar farms (which is so inefficient at the UK's latitude and hopeless in winter).

Same consideration goes for EV motorhomes. Car charging points are for vehicles under 5m. I am sceptical regarding a limited number of fast chargers for EV goods trucks becoming readily accessible to motorhomes. Unlike EV trucks and EV delivery vans we won't be priority users. That leaves us with home charging, and maybe charging facilities on Club or private campsites. The other possibility of EV cars tugging lightweight caravans is the more likely future scenario. I wish it wasn't.

Personally, I feel that a MH powered by a hydrogen fuel cell would be nicer than a diesel one at some point in the future. I am with Coolcats on this. Unless there is huge investment in the infrastructure to make and distribute hydrogen as a fuel that won't happen.

The Russian : Ukrainian war may just assist with Hydrogen production in that if Russia switches off gas to Europe, gas in some form will be needed by industry so we may see a step change in production out of necessity

 

[Gromett]

For the Hydrogen naysayers, Big industry is taking this seriously it will take time but these Manufacturers are serious about these investments and will want a return its all about the political shaping of how this happens and is really positive for us all and future generations.

Now this is a great use case for hydrogen that I hadn't considered. Quarries would be an ideal use case as they have the space on site to install a wind turbine and battery plant alongside an electolyser. They could produce their own hydrogen on site.

I was sceptical of the hydrogen ICE as it is not as efficient as a Fuel Cell and electric motor. But for a quarry I can see the practical use case.

As I have said before the reason JCB are pushing hydrogen ICE is to try and protect their investment in their ICE production plant and development infrastructure. I couldn't think of a use case where this would be better than a fuel cell, but a quarry is actually a perfect place
thinking about it.

 

[Coolcats]

Now this is a great use case for hydrogen that I hadn't considered. Quarries would be an ideal use case as they have the space on site to install a wind turbine and battery plant alongside an electolyser. They could produce their own hydrogen on site.

I was sceptical of the hydrogen ICE as it is not as efficient as a Fuel Cell and electric motor. But for a quarry I can see the practical use case.

As I have said before the reason JCB are pushing hydrogen ICE is to try and protect their investment in their ICE production plant and development infrastructure. I couldn't think of a use case where this would be better than a fuel cell, but a quarry is actually a perfect place
thinking about it.

And the same thing could apply for Farmers to produce their own Hydrogen for their vehicles. With Homes that are or are going to invest in Solar spare power could also do the same. Rather than the Government building 10 new nuclear reactors how about using that money to help homes insulate and generate thier own power independently of the grid ? Micro generation is an issue in that the big corporates (mainly owned by other countries) would loose money on this.

Again if there were conversion kits for ICE engines people would start to invest in the Hydrogen economy, its also better for the environment than scrapping all vehicles that are currently on the road and possibly a lot cheaper than converting an iCE vehicle to Batteries.

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