Indeed. Slavish adherence to rules of any sort is a bit of a Germano-British thing.
Full time through winter in search of new life
- Thread starter dawsey
- Start date
Many thanks!
Last night we went out for dinner with the current owners of the business we have decided on, and spent the evening asking questions about how they ran the place.
They invited us as having arrived on the campsite to go through some stuff they wanted to do it over food and wine, how civilised. I suspect that they realised the last 2 times, after our marathon question sessions they were left with no time left to eat. With the site up and running for the season they have less time.
It was quite fascinating finding out more about what works for them and what they struggle with. As always their issues were principally with finding staff and managing performance, most especially cleaning staff. It was funny to hear them say they had tried employing local young people as cleaning staff - it ended badly.
paraphrasing and translating - “in the end we became convinced that students don’t even know what the word ‘cleaning’ actually means..” We also found out about the health issues as one of the key reasons for the sale just as they are getting going after taking over in 2018 and soon after seeing the pandemic.
We discussed the unique appeal of the place and its failings, which associations work and which do not, the attitudes of the various national level associations (their views on the UK and German Camping and caravanning clubs, and how they interact with French sites was interesting), the ridiculousness of the ACSI system where believe it or not the site owners have to pay ACSI to become a member to get the privilege of…offering a discount!
Very interesting that they were clear on who the worst (most difficult, picky, complaining) tourists were though, the French, which given that they make up 60% of all the clients is perhaps unsurprising. The French
were not considered the dirtiest, that honour went to the Dutch. They thought the Brits generally OK. I suspected that they were being diplomatic on account of my nationality, then realised they weren’t sparing Beas’s feelings when it came to the French. Maybe cos she’s a celtic Breton they don’t even consider her French..
After we had been very clear on our assessments on where serious investment is needed to make it what it should really be, which is a €3m business, they were far more comfortable to open up on their own views and agree with the key points. Most of the accommodation needs replacing, the swimming pool needs significantly enlarging (it’s much too small for the scale of the site) and all plant replacing. The restaurant needs totally rethinking, 2 of the 3 sanitary blocks need rebuilding, and the small chateau (in reality a decent Manoir) is a 10year project in itself. This is before we even look at the other large and crumbling outbuildings…
So there is a huge amount to do, I get the feeling that most think we are crazy taking such a thing on, but I, and now, thankfully Bea, who at first wanted to run a mile from it has finally come round and is excited by the challenge, even the nearby industrial estate doesn’t seem to be the issue it was for me when I first looked at this place in near darkness in February, where my immediate reaction was that I was in a Betjeman poem. Also, most of the time you can’t really hear the nearby TGV line or Autoroute, have to remember it’s what brings all the passing trade.
The camping area has a dozen campers on it this morning, half brits, half dutch. All are the sorts of rigs you don’t typically see in the free aires, which tend to be the preserve of retirees in giant spacious Motorhomes. We see young families on a long weekend, people in the the little VW vans which are too small and cramped to stay in without extending awnings and putting stuff outside etc, the folks travelling and working (ie earning so don’t mind paying for somewhere nice and quiet to stay), and of course the caravans (or tuggers as you guys call them). We laughed when we asked about the group of Irish travelers with the huge twin axle caravans that were here when we last visited 2 weeks ago, at the time she explained she’d taken the booking not knowing. apparently half of them overstayed and left without paying, and one somehow got away with paying nothing. I think they have learned, but they highlighted the issue they perceive, will the place now attract more? - I didn’t have to caution them about allowing them in again. They just seemed happy that not too much rubbish was left for them to pick up.
We will be making it our mission to add some of you guys to the typical visitor profile, by carefully considering how to deliver what you said you want, large pitches, clean sanitary blocks (assuming we can find the staff…), a very friendly welcome, an excellent restaurant, very competitive prices and a unique offering, even if we can’t promise underfloor heating in the shower blocks as some have said is a preference
While we can’t change the location, it really isn’t that bad as a stopover place being so close to the main routes through western France, and at the end of the 1st days drive. The closet (half-mile) industrial buildings can’t be seen once through the gates and all the views become of the Manoir or the sloping valley in the other direction. We have, in the course of our analysis of this place stayed on nearly every free aire within 40 kilometres of this place, and they are near-universally all cramped with very limited space and very little to see…
Next update will be what and where the place is, once we have signed some paperwork and aren’t legally restricted from sharing. I am certain that one or more of you guys are likely to have stayed here already…
They invited us as having arrived on the campsite to go through some stuff they wanted to do it over food and wine, how civilised. I suspect that they realised the last 2 times, after our marathon question sessions they were left with no time left to eat. With the site up and running for the season they have less time.
It was quite fascinating finding out more about what works for them and what they struggle with. As always their issues were principally with finding staff and managing performance, most especially cleaning staff. It was funny to hear them say they had tried employing local young people as cleaning staff - it ended badly.
paraphrasing and translating - “in the end we became convinced that students don’t even know what the word ‘cleaning’ actually means..” We also found out about the health issues as one of the key reasons for the sale just as they are getting going after taking over in 2018 and soon after seeing the pandemic.
We discussed the unique appeal of the place and its failings, which associations work and which do not, the attitudes of the various national level associations (their views on the UK and German Camping and caravanning clubs, and how they interact with French sites was interesting), the ridiculousness of the ACSI system where believe it or not the site owners have to pay ACSI to become a member to get the privilege of…offering a discount!
Very interesting that they were clear on who the worst (most difficult, picky, complaining) tourists were though, the French, which given that they make up 60% of all the clients is perhaps unsurprising. The French
were not considered the dirtiest, that honour went to the Dutch. They thought the Brits generally OK. I suspected that they were being diplomatic on account of my nationality, then realised they weren’t sparing Beas’s feelings when it came to the French. Maybe cos she’s a celtic Breton they don’t even consider her French..
After we had been very clear on our assessments on where serious investment is needed to make it what it should really be, which is a €3m business, they were far more comfortable to open up on their own views and agree with the key points. Most of the accommodation needs replacing, the swimming pool needs significantly enlarging (it’s much too small for the scale of the site) and all plant replacing. The restaurant needs totally rethinking, 2 of the 3 sanitary blocks need rebuilding, and the small chateau (in reality a decent Manoir) is a 10year project in itself. This is before we even look at the other large and crumbling outbuildings…
So there is a huge amount to do, I get the feeling that most think we are crazy taking such a thing on, but I, and now, thankfully Bea, who at first wanted to run a mile from it has finally come round and is excited by the challenge, even the nearby industrial estate doesn’t seem to be the issue it was for me when I first looked at this place in near darkness in February, where my immediate reaction was that I was in a Betjeman poem. Also, most of the time you can’t really hear the nearby TGV line or Autoroute, have to remember it’s what brings all the passing trade.
The camping area has a dozen campers on it this morning, half brits, half dutch. All are the sorts of rigs you don’t typically see in the free aires, which tend to be the preserve of retirees in giant spacious Motorhomes. We see young families on a long weekend, people in the the little VW vans which are too small and cramped to stay in without extending awnings and putting stuff outside etc, the folks travelling and working (ie earning so don’t mind paying for somewhere nice and quiet to stay), and of course the caravans (or tuggers as you guys call them). We laughed when we asked about the group of Irish travelers with the huge twin axle caravans that were here when we last visited 2 weeks ago, at the time she explained she’d taken the booking not knowing. apparently half of them overstayed and left without paying, and one somehow got away with paying nothing. I think they have learned, but they highlighted the issue they perceive, will the place now attract more? - I didn’t have to caution them about allowing them in again. They just seemed happy that not too much rubbish was left for them to pick up.
We will be making it our mission to add some of you guys to the typical visitor profile, by carefully considering how to deliver what you said you want, large pitches, clean sanitary blocks (assuming we can find the staff…), a very friendly welcome, an excellent restaurant, very competitive prices and a unique offering, even if we can’t promise underfloor heating in the shower blocks as some have said is a preference
While we can’t change the location, it really isn’t that bad as a stopover place being so close to the main routes through western France, and at the end of the 1st days drive. The closet (half-mile) industrial buildings can’t be seen once through the gates and all the views become of the Manoir or the sloping valley in the other direction. We have, in the course of our analysis of this place stayed on nearly every free aire within 40 kilometres of this place, and they are near-universally all cramped with very limited space and very little to see…
Next update will be what and where the place is, once we have signed some paperwork and aren’t legally restricted from sharing. I am certain that one or more of you guys are likely to have stayed here already…
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It seems so good to have a cordial relationship with the owners, but I think I would find it too much to take on. May I ask your ages? As it sounds like a very long term job. Hopefully finding tradesmen will be easy, having friends living in Dept 47 I know how hard it is to get them to come, and they don’t keep appointments. (Seem worse than the Arabs!). Unless of course your background was as a builder/plumber etc.
I wish you both the very best going forward. We have just sold our Motorhome after 33 years so may be looking for bed&b.
Carol
I wish you both the very best going forward. We have just sold our Motorhome after 33 years so may be looking for bed&b.
Carol
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Ha - I’m not sure many will think that a free pitch is adequate reward for cleaning communal sanitary blocks
However if any retired tree surgeons, landscape gardeners, electricians, plumbers and general builders are on here there will be no end of general maintenance with that place, in addition to the big investment jobs like enlarging swimming pools and restoring big old houses...
However, my guess would be that the many retired or semi retired folks gracing this forum will probably be well pleased to not need to be engaging in that type of backbreaking work anymore…. isn’t that why eastern europeans were invented in the first place ?
A few days tree work / clearing undergrowth / repairing fences / hedging and ditching, out in the open with the warm sun on your back - what's not to like?
7 days camping for two days work?
Minxy would be ideal to go around cracking the whip at any slackers.
Minxy would be ideal to go around cracking the whip at any slackers.
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Sounds great to me…
Well, having been through all the inspection reports for asbestos etc and gone through all electrical installation reports and new roofs guarantees and reviewed this morning at length the stuff coning with the sale, including some very fine looking bits of furniture in the chateau, some fantastic looking new industrial wash machines and a huge barn full of spares and tools including multiple ride on mowers and a mini digger we concluded our visit ready to sign the LoI next week, shook hands and readied to leave.
It had rained all night and I’d stupidly parked on a sloping grass pitch at the bottom of the site, other departing vehicles had already turned the access road into a muddy quagmire. Unsurprisingly I got stuck trying to get out. Not wanting to try too hard and make a real mess of the pitch or disturb the owners who had retired to have their customary lunchtime nap, it was time to activate gadget number #55, my patented get out of mud system….
Dropping both front tyres down from 75psi to 25psi in effect doubles the contact patch and what a difference it made, the van was able to haul itself uphill out of the mud without even taking the motorbike off the back. Not too shabby and we didn’t destroy the pitch. The gadget, an inflator chuck and gauge teed into the onboard air suspension compressor line, took both fronts back up to 75psi in about 10minutes.
Well, having been through all the inspection reports for asbestos etc and gone through all electrical installation reports and new roofs guarantees and reviewed this morning at length the stuff coning with the sale, including some very fine looking bits of furniture in the chateau, some fantastic looking new industrial wash machines and a huge barn full of spares and tools including multiple ride on mowers and a mini digger we concluded our visit ready to sign the LoI next week, shook hands and readied to leave.
It had rained all night and I’d stupidly parked on a sloping grass pitch at the bottom of the site, other departing vehicles had already turned the access road into a muddy quagmire. Unsurprisingly I got stuck trying to get out. Not wanting to try too hard and make a real mess of the pitch or disturb the owners who had retired to have their customary lunchtime nap, it was time to activate gadget number #55, my patented get out of mud system….
Dropping both front tyres down from 75psi to 25psi in effect doubles the contact patch and what a difference it made, the van was able to haul itself uphill out of the mud without even taking the motorbike off the back. Not too shabby and we didn’t destroy the pitch. The gadget, an inflator chuck and gauge teed into the onboard air suspension compressor line, took both fronts back up to 75psi in about 10minutes.
Minxy
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Sod that ... I'd rather be the one playing with the power tools... and I don't mean domestic equipment... Gimmie a chainsaw!7 days camping for two days work?
Minxy would be ideal to go around cracking the whip at any slackers.
Just had mine serviced and the petrol hedge cutter so giving Mrs CC a hand in the garden today,, I won’t be taking any prisonersGimmie a chainsaw!
Wouldn’t you prefer to be piloting the mini digger…?Sod that ... I'd rather be the one playing with the power tools... and I don't mean domestic equipment... Gimmie a chainsaw!
The last time I used one I accidentally reversed into a hole I’d just dug..
Minxy
LIFE MEMBER
- Aug 22, 2007
- 33,816
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- Carthago Compactline
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- Since 1996, had Elddis/Swift/Rapido/Rimor/Chausson MHs. Autocruise/Globecar PVCs/Compactline i-138
Of course! Isn't that just a big 'power tool'?Wouldn’t you prefer to be piloting the mini digger…?
The last time I used one I accidentally reversed into a hole I’d just dug..
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Our place in the UK was small, but surrounded on all sides by huge places with big gardens. Every other sunday we’d hear the chorus of the neighbours riding around their huge lawns on their ride on mowers, while I’d ruefully dig our little electric hover mover out for our postage stamp lawn. It’s a small thing but I was so chuffed to see I will be inheriting 2 large ride on movers…
A teeny bit sad there’s no tractor though. I would love an old Massey Ferguson, ideally a 135. It’s what I learned to drive on.
A teeny bit sad there’s no tractor though. I would love an old Massey Ferguson, ideally a 135. It’s what I learned to drive on.
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you buy one and I'll drive it out there for you. I love an adventureOur place in the UK was small, but surrounded on all sides by huge places with big gardens. Every other sunday we’d hear the chorus of the neighbours riding around their huge lawns on their ride on mowers, while I’d ruefully dig our little electric hover mover out for our postage stamp lawn. It’s a small thing but I was so chuffed to see I will be inheriting 2 large ride on movers…
A teeny bit sad there’s no tractor though. I would love an old Massey Ferguson, ideally a 135. It’s what I learned to drive on.
You are on. If anyone finds an runner anywhere for a half decent price I’ll be having it. The MF135 will live forever…(or at least until they have all been shipped to Africa).you buy one and I'll drive it out there for you. I love an adventure
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Stonemags76
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That's one we haven't got, too dear for us
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Wow, have they become that expensive ? I understand they was for a long while high demand for export of the 135 and 165 to developing countries as they loved the simplicity. What about an International?That's one we haven't got, too dear for us
Well. The Letter of Offer has been signed and sent. Binds us to buy under French law assuming we can get the finance. We are buying the business (‘Fonds de Commerce’) outright, then partly borrowing to fund full acquisition of of the land and the walls (the ‘Murs’), which the Fonds must pays ‘rent’ to.
Need to borrow about 3/4million Euros, leaves us a little bit of our own cash to invest in some new statics and overhaul the shower blocks over the winter. Update the pool if any money left. Let’s hope no new pandemic in March or it’s instant bankruptcy
Now for the paperwork, applications, accountants and French banks. We have ruled out using a broker as they are another crowd of Del-boy mickey takers. 2% commission? no thanks. It’s like Asia, everyone wants to put their hand in your pocket when doing something like this. Still, good ol’ blighty also has estate agents, brokers, accountants, conveyancers and good old government (stamp duty) having a dip when buying or selling property, it is just that it is not so complex and costs are much lower.
We will do our own business plan and make our own representations to the banks. The system is very complicated here, the banks, for complex legal reasons outsource the securitisation of the borrowing (it isn’t just secured on the property you are buying (mortgage) unlike almost everywhere else
There are 3 different choices to guarantee/underwrite the debt, and costs start at 1.5% of the borrowed amount. Stamp duty is 7.5%, notaire (conveyancer) fees are roughly double what you’d pay in UK.
The property itself may be inexpensive when compared to the UK, but buying it isn’t
Need to borrow about 3/4million Euros, leaves us a little bit of our own cash to invest in some new statics and overhaul the shower blocks over the winter. Update the pool if any money left. Let’s hope no new pandemic in March or it’s instant bankruptcy
Now for the paperwork, applications, accountants and French banks. We have ruled out using a broker as they are another crowd of Del-boy mickey takers. 2% commission? no thanks. It’s like Asia, everyone wants to put their hand in your pocket when doing something like this. Still, good ol’ blighty also has estate agents, brokers, accountants, conveyancers and good old government (stamp duty) having a dip when buying or selling property, it is just that it is not so complex and costs are much lower.
We will do our own business plan and make our own representations to the banks. The system is very complicated here, the banks, for complex legal reasons outsource the securitisation of the borrowing (it isn’t just secured on the property you are buying (mortgage) unlike almost everywhere else
There are 3 different choices to guarantee/underwrite the debt, and costs start at 1.5% of the borrowed amount. Stamp duty is 7.5%, notaire (conveyancer) fees are roughly double what you’d pay in UK.
The property itself may be inexpensive when compared to the UK, but buying it isn’t
Excellent choice, we have an into 276 my favourite tractor and the one I do my farm work with out of all of them.
Well, we will certainly need a tractor and some implements with 20-odd acres and about 200 mature trees, I will do some research as to whether it would be cheaper to pick up an old workhorse in France or UK. The default would always be UK, used vehicles are generally cheaper, but I’ve seen loads of old tractors over here, often just lying around in fields.
Any ideas of UK values of decent useable workhorses?
Any ideas of UK values of decent useable workhorses?
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2 to3 grand for anything decent but you are right there are lots in France just lying about if you can drop on one.
If you see an agricultural dealers place, have a look around the back, I have seen lots over the years, but couldn't get them back.
Thanks. Bea’s dad has for 35 years run his own small business designing and building weird and wonderful agricultural equipment to assist with harvesting vegetables in Brittany, he is bound to have loads of contacts with Farmers and agricultural dealers. We will try him first, he will probably be able to negotiate the best bargain. Maybe I will find my 135 after all
You need a LamborghiniThanks. Bea’s dad has for 35 years run his own small business designing and building weird and wonderful agricultural equipment to assist with harvesting vegetables in Brittany, he is bound to have loads of contacts with Farmers and agricultural dealers. We will try him first, he will probably be able to negotiate the best bargain. Maybe I will find my 135 after all
While I am a petrolhead, and do own a brace of V8 and a V12, I wouldn’t consider myself in the same league as farmer Clarkson…
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