Full time through winter in search of new life

[dawsey]

It's all about how you design your entrance.
The photo below is River Camping, Lake Bled, which is a good example of 'best practice.'

• Driveway in from main road
• Some external parking for cars and smaller vans and deliveries.
• Two lanes opposite reception which are long enough for 10 motorhomes or caravans.
• roadway kept clear for those on site who have been processed
• Roundabout so that vehicles can be turned around without the need to enter the site
• Fob controlled 'airlock' gates, (one gate must be closed before other will open), all done on a bend, so that it can be easily rammed
• Major facilities around the entry, so that staff can easily be moved to where the rush is (or where it is not)
• The rest of the site has to be secure, berms and hawthorn hedging is probably the cheapest long term solution. (If there is a back gate, they will find it)

There are three ways you can change camp site fees.

• Upfront on booking. However you may have issues with people that book a week and then cancel and you have to refund (a percentage)
• On arrival Card only, no cash, you must have a copy of their photo ID, some will object. They can leave.
• In arrears on departure. which is the easiest option, the one that can be abused most easily, especially if you take cash and no ID

I would strongly say that option three is never available, not even to friends and regulars.
All bookings must be with a card (no cash) and with an photo ID, which you copy.
No card, no ID, no entry.


View attachment 789510

Thanks Brains. Sure that setup looks ideal, and would be great if it was a green field site.

Assuming we go ahead, we will have to work with what we’ve got. Some of the elements you mention are already there or are possible, some aren’t. We do have a clear idea of what to do, it involves additional barriers, cameras, a new booking/check in system and making far more use of the main gate which is currently ‘dumb’. We are investigating the possibility of integrating numberplate recognition as known traveller plates are shared in a main database managed by FNHPA. It’s accessible and updated constantly by campsites when one of them is noted. Though many will of course be using false plates, if they have made mischief anywhere where the site is a member, the number they are using will be noted, added to the system. Sooner or later they will run out of fake plates.

We are very much appreciating the thoughts of everyone, keep the comments coming. This campsite picked up a little over the weekend going into August but still we’d say 35% down. We have not formally communicated anything to the owner yet, but met him in passing yesterday and asked him how he thought the season was going - he expressed confidence of achieving 90% of last year, which is clearly untrue. We can’t work out if it is entirely deliberate disingenuousness or partly just wishful thinking. He doesn’t come across as a particularly devious type, in fact quite the opposite which throws us. less than a week now to D-day.

 

[chaser]

Thanks Brains. Sure that setup looks ideal, and would be great if it was a green field site.

Assuming we go ahead, we will have to work with what we’ve got. Some of the elements you mention are already there or are possible, some aren’t. We do have a clear idea of what to do, it involves additional barriers, cameras, a new booking/check in system and making far more use of the main gate which is currently ‘dumb’. We are investigating the possibility of integrating numberplate recognition as known traveller plates are shared in a main database managed by FNHPA. It’s accessible and updated constantly by campsites when one of them is noted. Though many will of course be using false plates, if they have made mischief anywhere where the site is a member, the number they are using will be noted, added to the system. Sooner or later they will run out of fake plates.

We are very much appreciating the thoughts of everyone, keep the comments coming. This campsite picked up a little over the weekend going into August but still we’d say 35% down. We have not formally communicated anything to the owner yet, but met him in passing yesterday and asked him how he thought the season was going - he expressed confidence of achieving 90% of last year, which is clearly untrue. We can’t work out if it is entirely deliberate disingenuousness or partly just wishful thinking. He doesn’t come across as a particularly devious type, in fact quite the opposite which throws us. less than a week now to D-day.

A couple of points here. Does the site get busy now with the french starting their holidays, is this averaged over the whole season.?
With this booking before hand , does this work against motorhomers who are used to just drawing up without booking, how would this work?

 

[Onemanandhisdog]

I've stayed on UK sites where travellers have been spending the summer and actually paying there way, but one thing i noticed were their number plates were never screwed on, if there was a number plate at all, only ever taped on. So easy to switch, but more to do with moving the vans on each season i think, they left the plastic on the seats and didn't cook or wash in the caravans! I guess they tried to move them on as new at the end of their summer holidays!

 

[MisterB]

Were you sneaky enough to check their plates against the MOT govt website, to see if the plates were legitimate?
I did it in France once and none of them (4) were!

 

[Onemanandhisdog]

Were you sneaky enough to check their plates against the MOT govt website, to see if the plates were legitimate?
I did it in France once and none of them (4) were!

No, can't say I did.

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[Brains]

A couple of points here. Does the site get busy now with the french starting their holidays, is this averaged over the whole season.?
With this booking before hand , does this work against motorhomers who are used to just drawing up without booking, how would this work?

Booking in advance means that the site owner has an idea of occupancy rates on any given day.
They also have money coming in during the winter for the summer bookings.
Many popular sites take bookings to 80% capacity July and August by the previous February.
Talking to site owners in Austria and Germany this summer, they were saying that if you had not booked by Xmas then you were not going to get the prime pitches in the summer.

That does not stop the people that book 1-2 days in advance (I tend to be in this group)

Nor does it stop the 'turn up on the door' group. But they will just have to take what is available.

As software is progressing very fast it is only a matter of time before all bookings on sites with over 40-60 pitches are all done on a computer, either in advance on at the reception.
Payment must be on arrival, entry is via ANPR and/or Fob.

 

[dawsey]

This isn’t the type of site that people ‘book’ for a holiday, it’s 50-75% a passing place, a glorified luxury (dirty, tired spacious luxury, wots that? - shabby chic?) aire de camping car, and a short term weekend glamping place for local students to spend a night in a tent. Loads of on the day coming and going. It’s a place for touring belgian, brit, dutch, german, p*k*y and brit touring outfits to stay a night enroute to or from somewhere else further south. The french that come to stay here only do so because it’s cheap, or there is nowhere else to stay. Some come to go to futuroscope just up the road but that’s about it. It ain’t a destination, it’s just somewhere you pass through and forget. For us the key is that volume of potential traffic. You persuade half of the touring folk who stay to stay one extra night and you’ve just increased your turnover by 50%.

If you build it they will come, if you build it really nice and provide cleanliness, beauty, good service and good food maybe they will stay more than a night

 

[Dutch 68]

Would you not rather live and invest in a place where people go as a destination ? Stunning views are a joy every day, it beats a TV

 

[chaser]

This isn’t the type of site that people ‘book’ for a holiday, it’s 50-75% a passing place, a glorified luxury (dirty, tired spacious luxury, wots that? - shabby chic?) aire de camping car, and a short term weekend glamping place for local students to spend a night in a tent. Loads of on the day coming and going. It’s a place for touring belgian, brit, dutch, german, p*k*y and brit touring outfits to stay a night enroute to or from somewhere else further south. The french that come to stay here only do so because it’s cheap, or there is nowhere else to stay. Some come to go to futuroscope just up the road but that’s about it. It ain’t a destination, it’s just somewhere you pass through and forget. For us the key is that volume of potential traffic. You persuade half of the touring folk who stay to stay one extra night and you’ve just increased your turnover by 50%.

If you build it they will come, if you build it really nice and provide cleanliness, beauty, good service and good food maybe they will stay more than a night

Yes. I'm afraid you paint a worse picture every day, I was slowly coming round to it if you could get a load off the buying price, but relying on passing trade to a site in an industrial area , I just don't get it.

 

[dawsey]

Yes. I'm afraid you paint a worse picture every day, I was slowly coming round to it if you could get a load off the buying price, but relying on passing trade to a site in an industrial area , I just don't get it.

Would you not rather live and invest in a place where people go as a destination ? Stunning views are a joy every day, it beats a TV

Different propositions. We have looked at or physically seen literally dozens of sites in beautiful locations. As I’ve stated many times the best located sites are often naturist, or in fire/flood risk zones. We made an offer on the one of the best of the Dordogne sites, came close to an offer on a naturist site, and made another offer on the best of the uninsurable flood risk sites in the deep south…. We know where the beauty is, and why everyone heads to the South. But every rose has its thorns….

Sites that rely on being ‘the destination’ are an entirely different animal to sites relying on passing or short term/short beak trade. It’s true the location has to be special, the site also. You have to provide kids entertainment, food every morning lunch and evening, and it’s going to be mainly accommodations for famiiies, not tourers. You need a ‘draw’ to get people to commit to book, the business can take a lot of time to develop. We have seen loads. Most create a ‘draw’ or USP by focussing/specialising, ie naturist, or by being nation or language specific, like dutch sites or english sites or french only sites. It can’t be overt, obviously, but it only takes a few seconds to see a sites target market. They do it so the parents and kids can enjoy, and socialise, entertainment in their own language etc etc.

It’s not what we want.

From the very beginning I wanted a large place with land, to develop an aire de camping car type place, but also be able to develop and offer some glamping accommodation. I’d originally hoped not to have to open a restaurant. For this, proximity to towns and transit routes are important. What we have seen is that 90% of touring outfits don’t want to stay on a cheap or free aire de camping car, even for one night. You guys are a significant part of the small proportion who, in general, steer away from campsites. For the other 80-90%, a ‘proper’ campsite is needed, so that’s what our ‘aire’ has to be to be able to capture more of the passing trade. A ‘proper’ campsite just means a place that feels safe, secure, has toilets and showers. Luxuries like a swim pool, grocery and restaurant definitely encourage more of them, and they will pay more for it. If it’s pretty, interesting and well kept inside then all the better. People want their kids to have a good holiday, even the travelling bit. If you provide that, you get the passing trade. Add in some glamping for the local young couples, and add in some statics for cheap holidays near the big theme park for the French (think family holidays to Blackpool or whatever the southern UK equivalent was), then you are pretty diversified in terms of a campsite. It’s why we like this place. Add in the potential of residents, winter workers (from the nearby industry), events (land), weddings, concerts, festivals and even the doomsday back up scenario of a good probability of getting permission for land use change (we have been doing some deep research), then buying this place may even make sense as a decent gamble even with zero turnover…..thus we have the bigger picture.


Yesterday we learned from a specialist that the swim pool equipment is totally obsolete (well, we already knew that). We also learned of a major underground leak that the owner has bodged, with the bodge meaning that the water doesn’t circulate properly, which explains why he struggles to control the bacteria. It’s another €40k, which will be a repair just to a tiny old pool. The good news is that when I had looked at the pool I had originally concluded it would need €50k to sort it out and overhaul the top to make it last a few more years. A new larger pool, which is really needed if we are successful is going to be €175k, but again this is only €25k more than I had estimated.

There’s going to be closer to two million euro needed, we’d previously counted about one and a half, so total required funding goes from 3 to 3.5million, and of course by the end it will be well over four. But this is over 8 years so no real changes or shockers. Looks like only €30-€40k to clear the stink trees though. I’d estimate that if the investments are made astutely, the asset value would rise broadly in line with the investment.

All that’s needed is the ability to repay,……

The developing issue is that the era of super cheap borrowing is gone. A year ago, servicing a million of euro debt (just interest) would have cost maybe fifteen or twenty grand a year. Now it’s more like forty five grand. fifty with other costs, so the eventual two million of funding we need will be 100k a year (just to service debt interest). Repayment on business loans is 15yr thus debt servicing and capital repayment is about €225,000 a year. The business needs to be capable of making three times that to repay the capital from profit. We think it is (capable of that).

All known. But, the big new difference is that we now know what it makes in a really bad year. The weather here continues to be absolutely shocking, cloud and rain every day, the French are reacting to heavy cost of living inflation (food costs are beyond belief) and those critical static caravan customers, the high paying bread and butter of this sites current model are just staying away.

So - the site is probably 40-50% down on last years turnover. Numbers for base turnover and the interest rates we have to pay are outside our boundaries, and crucially outside even the conservative boundary conditions we used in the business case used to persuade French banks to offer us the required funding.

Given this, the price must come down, which it will.

The question is simply this - will the current owners accept the new reality immediately, or will it take time for it to sink in. If it is ultimately the latter, then we will be gone,
and he will have to sell the site for a lower price next year, where, presumably it will have fallen apart even more.

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[Figaro]

I'm amazed if you can get a new build commercial campsite standard pool with all the required extras needed for the kids for 175k ?
I'd have thought closer to 1 million

 

[chaser]

Different propositions. We have looked at or physically seen literally dozens of sites in beautiful locations. As I’ve stated many times the best located sites are often naturist, or in fire/flood risk zones. We made an offer on the one of the best of the Dordogne sites, came close to an offer on a naturist site, and made another offer on the best of the uninsurable flood risk sites in the deep south…. We know where the beauty is, and why everyone heads to the South. But every rose has its thorns….

Sites that rely on being ‘the destination’ are an entirely different animal to sites relying on passing or short term/short beak trade. It’s true the location has to be special, the site also. You have to provide kids entertainment, food every morning lunch and evening, and it’s going to be mainly accommodations for famiiies, not tourers. You need a ‘draw’ to get people to commit to book, the business can take a lot of time to develop. We have seen loads. Most create a ‘draw’ or USP by focussing/specialising, ie naturist, or by being nation or language specific, like dutch sites or english sites or french only sites. It can’t be overt, obviously, but it only takes a few seconds to see a sites target market. They do it so the parents and kids can enjoy, and socialise, entertainment in their own language etc etc.

It’s not what we want.

From the very beginning I wanted a large place with land, to develop an aire de camping car type place, but also be able to develop and offer some glamping accommodation. I’d originally hoped not to have to open a restaurant. For this, proximity to towns and transit routes are important. What we have seen is that 90% of touring outfits don’t want to stay on a cheap or free aire de camping car, even for one night. You guys are a significant part of the small proportion who, in general, steer away from campsites. For the other 80-90%, a ‘proper’ campsite is needed, so that’s what our ‘aire’ has to be to be able to capture more of the passing trade. A ‘proper’ campsite just means a place that feels safe, secure, has toilets and showers. Luxuries like a swim pool, grocery and restaurant definitely encourage more of them, and they will pay more for it. If it’s pretty, interesting and well kept inside then all the better. People want their kids to have a good holiday, even the travelling bit. If you provide that, you get the passing trade. Add in some glamping for the local young couples, and add in some statics for cheap holidays near the big theme park for the French (think family holidays to Blackpool or whatever the southern UK equivalent was), then you are pretty diversified in terms of a campsite. It’s why we like this place. Add in the potential of residents, winter workers (from the nearby industry), events (land), weddings, concerts, festivals and even the doomsday back up scenario of a good probability of getting permission for land use change (we have been doing some deep research), then buying this place may even make sense as a decent gamble even with zero turnover…..thus we have the bigger picture.


Yesterday we learned from a specialist that the swim pool equipment is totally obsolete (well, we already knew that). We also learned of a major underground leak that the owner has bodged, with the bodge meaning that the water doesn’t circulate properly, which explains why he struggles to control the bacteria. It’s another €40k, which will be a repair just to a tiny old pool. The good news is that when I had looked at the pool I had originally concluded it would need €50k to sort it out and overhaul the top to make it last a few more years. A new larger pool, which is really needed if we are successful is going to be €175k, but again this is only €25k more than I had estimated.

There’s going to be closer to two million euro needed, we’d previously counted about one and a half, so total required funding goes from 3 to 3.5million, and of course by the end it will be well over four. But this is over 8 years so no real changes or shockers. Looks like only €30-€40k to clear the stink trees though. I’d estimate that if the investments are made astutely, the asset value would rise broadly in line with the investment.

All that’s needed is the ability to repay,……

The developing issue is that the era of super cheap borrowing is gone. A year ago, servicing a million of euro debt (just interest) would have cost maybe fifteen or twenty grand a year. Now it’s more like forty five grand. fifty with other costs, so the eventual two million of funding we need will be 100k a year (just to service debt interest). Repayment on business loans is 15yr thus debt servicing and capital repayment is about €225,000 a year. The business needs to be capable of making three times that to repay the capital from profit. We think it is (capable of that).

All known. But, the big new difference is that we now know what it makes in a really bad year. The weather here continues to be absolutely shocking, cloud and rain every day, the French are reacting to heavy cost of living inflation (food costs are beyond belief) and those critical static caravan customers, the high paying bread and butter of this sites current model are just staying away.

So - the site is probably 40-50% down on last years turnover. Numbers for base turnover and the interest rates we have to pay are outside our boundaries, and crucially outside even the conservative boundary conditions we used in the business case used to persuade French banks to offer us the required funding.

Given this, the price must come down, which it will.

The question is simply this - will the current owners accept the new reality immediately, or will it take time for it to sink in. If it is ultimately the latter, then we will be gone,
and he will have to sell the site for a lower price next year, where, presumably it will have fallen apart even more.

Mate, are you really serious? You can't make people come to a site like this, there is nothing I can say that I havnt said before, and I really hate saying these things, I would like to see you do well with this idea but this one just keeps getting worse.

 

[Mikey RV]

A swimming pool is a huge big money pit forever.

 

[Coastal Cruiser.]

A swimming pool is a huge big money pit forever.

Use to have a 17’000 gallon Koi pond and that was a money pit would have been cheaper to make it into a swimming pool

 

[dawsey]

Yes, a pool is absolutely a money pit. But it’s a necessary money pit in any decent campsite. one that funds itself.

175k is the price for a modest small-medium sized (15m) new commercial- grade rectangular pool of high quality construction (concrete) and quality surround. A bit more if it’s tiled rather than using a reinforced liner.

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[olley]

If he won't drop the price how about offering half now and the other half interest free over 10-15 years.

 

[chaser]

Yes, a pool is absolutely a money pit. But it’s a necessary money pit in any decent campsite. one that funds itself.

175k is the price for a modest small-medium sized (15m) new commercial- grade rectangular pool of high quality construction (concrete) and quality surround. A bit more if it’s tiled rather than using a reinforced liner.

If you were to advertise this site, what would you put up to be it's good points to get us all to want to come?
Sea. Scenery, hot weather, canal or river , fishing , excellent meals, cheap bar, any of these?

 

[MisterB]

If there is a bodged leak, can it be unbodged ?? if he got to it to bodge it, would someone with a digger and a man who can fix pipes be an answer? 40k on a leak seems excessive, unless its on the pump eqpt etc.

have you considered a salt water pool? it doesnt sound as crazy as you might first think. it certainly reduces the amount of chemicals being used, would that be a good environmental 'gesture' ??
the amount of salt used really is small and often below the level that you can detect it and France certainly isnt short of salt producers, albeit for the table!

it might actually work out the cheaper long term option in terms of running costs and as most parts are usually plastic/pvc etc then its not the corrosive problem that might be first assumed. Solar panels on any buildings close enough to the pool might provide a very cost effective heating source aswell?

hope it goes well next week ....

 

[dawsey]

If there is a bodged leak, can it be unbodged ?? if he got to it to bodge it, would someone with a digger and a man who can fix pipes be an answer? 40k on a leak seems excessive, unless its on the pump eqpt etc.

have you considered a salt water pool? it doesnt sound as crazy as you might first think. it certainly reduces the amount of chemicals being used, would that be a good environmental 'gesture' ??
the amount of salt used really is small and often below the level that you can detect it and France certainly isnt short of salt producers, albeit for the table!

it might actually work out the cheaper long term option in terms of running costs and as most parts are usually plastic/pvc etc then its not the corrosive problem that might be first assumed. Solar panels on any buildings close enough to the pool might provide a very cost effective heating source aswell?

hope it goes well next week ....

40k includes the leak dig and fix. In the main it’s for replacing the veranda and poolside, replacing pumps, dosers and heaters, fences, skimmer and foot wash systems. The leak repair is why it’s a bit more than I thought it would be.

The plan is to properly fix up the existing pool, then, assuming all goes well, to build a new one along side it, maybe with kiddie slides etc.

Commercial sites are not allowed salt pools.

 

[Figaro]

What we have seen is that 90% of touring outfits don’t want to stay on a cheap or free aire de camping car, even for one night.

What research have you done that suggests one night travellers passing through to or from destination campsites want a bells and whistles full facility campsite, and are willing to pay for facilities they probably won't use ?

I know you've done your research and are confident in in your conclusions, but I just can't help feeling your thinking is muddled.

When traveling and wanting an overnight stay, I just want somewhere reasonably level, clean, secure and quiet. If there's a village, shop, services or scenery nearby then so much the better. For that I don't mind free or a CCP at 10-12 euro. Equally happy with either option.

I don't want to pay 25-30 + euro for facilities I won't use, and the hassle that seems to go hand in hand with booking onto a french campsite.

Have you thought of separation for aire and campsite and charging accordingly ?

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[dawsey]

If you were to advertise this site, what would you put up to be it's good points to get us all to want to come?
Sea. Scenery, hot weather, canal or river , fishing , excellent meals, cheap bar, any of these?

Errr, OK I will try.

Sea - No. The nearest coast is about 2hr and 10min on the autoroute.
Scenery - Not really, just factories. Nearest is a big toilet paper factory.
Weather - Poitiers is about in the middle so it’s a mixed bag. It can be hot, but the weather right now is shocking. Rain, wind, every day. about 20C so at least it’s not cold.
There is a tiny stream nearby, about 1m across and not much water. I saw what looked like a very young Trout, but there’s signs saying no fishing as the LA is trying to make local watercourses recover from pollution and erosion. They’re a bigger river about 2km but it smells a bit. You have to cross the railway so it’s about a 4km walk, maybe 6km to find somewhere quiet to fish.
Restaurant - no. It closed. it’s just burned pizza these days. We think we could do better, but have zero experience of running a restaurant. I regularly burn both my beans and my toast. Firing the cook would be an improvement.
Bar - there isn’t one. I reckon I could set one up, I know a bit about pubs. Spent half my life in them.

In short, it isn’t the sort of place anyone would actually choose to stay for a long period, but we think we could make a 1-3 night stay very pleasant.

 

[dawsey]

What research have you done that suggests one night travellers passing through to or from destination campsites want a bells and whistles full facility campsite, and are willing to pay for facilities they probably won't use ?

I know you've done your research and are confident in in your conclusions, but I just can't help feeling your thinking is muddled.

When traveling and wanting an overnight stay, I just want somewhere reasonably level, clean, secure and quiet. If there's a village, shop, services or scenery nearby then so much the better. For that I don't mind free or a CCP at 10-12 euro. Equally happy with either option.

I don't want to pay 25-30 + euro for facilities I won't use.

Have you thought of separation for aire and campsite and charging accordingly ?

Lots - you are looking at it only from your own perspective…

and to answer your question, yes, but it isn’t necessary for some reasons I have already outlined, but also many others..

 

[chaser]

Errr, OK I will try.

Sea - No. The nearest coast is about 2hr and 10min on the autoroute.
Scenery - Not really, just factories. Nearest is a big toilet paper factory.
Weather - Poitiers is about in the middle so it’s a mixed bag. It can be hot, but the weather right now is shocking. Rain, wind, every day. about 20C so at least it’s not cold.
There is a tiny stream nearby, about 1m across and not much water. I saw what looked like a very young Trout, but there’s signs saying no fishing as the LA is trying to make local watercourses recover from pollution and erosion. They’re a bigger river about 2km but it smells a bit. You have to cross the railway so it’s about a 4km walk, maybe 6km to find somewhere quiet to fish.
Restaurant - no. It closed. it’s just burned pizza these days. We think we could do better, but have zero experience of running a restaurant. I regularly burn both my beans and my toast. During the cook would be an improvement.
Bar - there isn’t one. I reckon I could set one up, I know a bit about pubs. Spent half my life in them.

In short, it isn’t the sort of place anyone would actually choose to stay for a long period, but we think we could make a 1-3 night stay very pleasant.

You really are too honest about this place, it must have something to make you want to throw 3 million at it.

 

[Figaro]

You really are too honest about this place, it must have something to make you want to throw 3 million at it.

Apparently not ?

 

[olley]

The challenge

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[dawsey]

Apparently not ?

Yes. Pure and simple, we think it can make money,and provide a lovely experience to short term visitors - but not without a lot of investment.

 

[chaser]

Yes. Pure and simple, we think it can make money,and provide a lovely experience to short term visitors - but not without a lot of investment.

But when you have spent all this money what are you going to end up with that you can't get now for one million all done.?

 

[Brains]

A swimming pool is a huge big money pit forever.

Unless you can open it to the locals for an annual membership fee and a €1 per person per day

 

[DangerMousy]

What research have you done that suggests one night travellers passing through to or from destination campsites want a bells and whistles full facility campsite, and are willing to pay for facilities they probably won't use ?

I think there's always a market for good value transit sites....don't forget that people in tents and caravans probably outnumber MHs by a fair margin and they'll always need somewhere to stop off en route. There's also plenty of motorhomers out there who prefer campsites.....whether its for the perceived extra security, the need for EHU, or just because they prefer it (they don't need a reason).

For example.....if we're staying for just one night then we'll usually look for an aire rather than a campsite....its cheaper and usually easier. But last year we chose to stay at a campsite just outside Modena for around €32 per night instead of the sosta the other side of the city which was only €20. The campsite wasn't even that great: the facilities were dated, it was really noisy because it was tucked into the bend of a motorway exit, and right next to a huge industrial estate. But the weather was really really hot and the thought of being able to cool off in the pool and having a bit of shade was attractive.

And we obviously weren't the only ones as it was pretty busy....with mostly motorhomes, but also a good number of caravans and a few tents. I don't think this forum is particularly representative of the majority of campers its attitude to sites vs aires.

 

[MisterB]

dawsey

Don't ever think of going into the Epitath writing industry ....There must be something nice you can say ...

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