Full time through winter in search of new life

[tinkertaylor]

It certainly looks like the ‘covid campers’ have all gone back to where they used to holiday.

Maybe, it could also be the cost of living is just stopping holidays full stop.

Couldn't you provide a cheaper static option for a few years to minimise your capital outlay and create some income streams.

Those bell type tents seem popular, solid fuel burner and a decent bed, add some plants a few throws, lighting and your in business.

Make some food hampers using local business products.You could even decorate the tents with items that you stock to sell.

https://belltentboutique.co.uk/products/5m-stargazer-bell-tent

 

[Dutch 68]

More face to face meetings with two of the banks have happened this week. We were expecting offers (as had been communicated) but they didn’t happen. They just asked more questions and told us the offer would be early next week. It’s likely because the European Central Bank base rate decision is this week (it is today), and they are going to raise the base rate again, this time from 4.25 to 4.5%. It will be the second raise since we signed the compromis de vent (exchanged) and the third since we finalised the financial planning and business cases.

We are now expecting the formal offers will be in the 4.5-4.8% range. A full 30% increase in the cost of debt servicing.

Also had an outline estimate of the cost to pay a contractor to fully eradicate the stink tree infestation over 2 years, €100,000. We hadn’t considered that…

While the camping pitches are typically 60-80% utilised this year, the rentals (static caravans etc) are not doing well at all this year, we estimate down 50% on last year, they seem to us to be running about 25-30% capacity - in late July, which should be the peak of the peak season. It certainly looks like the ‘covid campers’ have all gone back to where they used to holiday.

It seems that the opinion of most on here seems valid but you see it different at this stage, I know you have had enough from living full time in a motorhome so personally I would get a nice small cottage for a 6 month rental or so in an area where you would like to be and spend more time looking for a better proposition, there has to be a better site for sale then this one, cosmetic upgrades and additional accommodation building is fine, that’s good investment, spending hundreds of thousands on solving basics which shouldn’t be an issue in the first place is just burning it for the wrong reasons, I don’t know what you have as contingency budget but when you start to pull things apart you will find a lot more expensive surprises, that is just how it works.
There are sites for sale with 2/3 holiday cottages ready to take money from day 1 and with year around income stream and enough acreage to start a glamping site from scratch, which doesn’t need big money to clear rotten infrastructure from site but spend every penny on nice new shiny stuff, and in a nice attractive area, people who stay for a longer period are a much better income stream then 1 night stop over customers

 

[chaser]

It seems that the opinion of most on here seems valid but you see it different at this stage, I know you have had enough from living full time in a motorhome so personally I would get a nice small cottage for a 6 month rental or so in an area where you would like to be and spend more time looking for a better proposition, there has to be a better site for sale then this one, cosmetic upgrades and additional accommodation building is fine, that’s good investment, spending hundreds of thousands on solving basics which shouldn’t be an issue in the first place is just burning it for the wrong reasons, I don’t know what you have as contingency budget but when you start to pull things apart you will find a lot more expensive surprises, that is just how it works.
There are sites for sale with 2/3 holiday cottages ready to take money from day 1 and with year around income stream and enough acreage to start a glamping site from scratch, which doesn’t need big money to clear rotten infrastructure from site but spend every penny on nice new shiny stuff, and in a nice attractive area, people who stay for a longer period are a much better income stream then 1 night stop over customers

You are wasting your time I'm afraid mate, I suggested this from day one.

 

[corconx]

Well I still have faith that hopefully it will happen but maybe time frame stretches and those classic cars and gold watch help get it done. But I hope it works out.

 

[chaser]

Well I still have faith that hopefully it will happen but maybe time frame stretches and those classic cars and gold watch help get it done. But I hope it works out.

The thing about this though is its way overpriced to start with, just have a Google on campsites in France and you will find plenty at half the price of this one and already had the work done , all set up to draw right from the off, and the best of it is , he apparently already has a million in the bank , he could set up in one of these others without worrying about interest rates.
It all seems to crazy for words that's why I still think there is some sort of windup in this.

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[Dutch 68]

You are wasting your time I'm afraid mate, I suggested this from day one.

So have I but I did think it was only right to express this again as the odds are unfortunately changing constantly in the wrong direction

 

[EuroTrotters]

Maybe, it could also be the cost of living is just stopping holidays full stop.

Couldn't you provide a cheaper static option for a few years to minimise your capital outlay and create some income streams.

Those bell type tents seem popular, solid fuel burner and a decent bed, add some plants a few throws, lighting and your in business.

Make some food hampers using local business products.You could even decorate the tents with items that you stock to sell.

https://belltentboutique.co.uk/products/5m-stargazer-bell-tent

View attachment 787446

don't they do a drive away awning one too

 

[brysee]

The thing about this though is its way overpriced to start with, just have a Google on campsites in France and you will find plenty at half the price of this one and already had the work done , all set up to draw right from the off, and the best of it is , he apparently already has a million in the bank , he could set up in one of these others without worrying about interest rates.
It all seems to crazy for words that's why I still think there is some sort of windup in this.

The plot thickens if it is a story it's a good un very keyser soze I like it either way fact or fiction

 

[chaser]

Have a look at this then tell me if there is any sense in this thread.

Buy a campsite in perigueux

Beautiful leisure complex in Perigord Blanc. It has 8 wooden chalets (one of which meets disabled access standards) and 3 caravans, set around a…

france.businessesforsale.com

Buy a campsite in blot l eglise

For sale, beautiful green family campsite with fifty pitches in the Puy-de-Dome, Auvergne, near the magnificent Gorges de la Sioule. Very well…

france.businessesforsale.com

 

[tinkertaylor]

dawsey has done his research and has found a site that ticks all the boxes for location and potential for expansion. His wife works in or worked in marketing so should have a good idea about its potential and how to maximise it.

Going around and around highlighting the downsides and your lower tolerance to risk doesn't add to the thread. He's determined to push on and understands the risks better than all of us.

I hope they succeed and I think they will, fortune favours the brave ( He's not even that brave tbh, the land has value)

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[CAB96]

Also had an outline estimate of the cost to pay a contractor to fully eradicate the stink tree infestation over 2 years, €100,000. We hadn’t considered that…

Could you not argue that the €100k should be knocked off the asking price?

 

[dawsey]

dawsey has done his research and has found a site that ticks all the boxes for location and potential for expansion. His wife works in or worked in marketing so should have a good idea about its potential and how to maximise it.

Going around and around highlighting the downsides and your lower tolerance to risk doesn't add to the thread. He's determined to push on and understands the risks better than all of us.

I hope they succeed and I think they will, fortune favours the brave ( He's not even that brave tbh, the land has value)

Many thanks

Interest rate rises and the weakness of the pound are factored in to a degree, but the two new things that are giving us some pause for thought are the very significantly increased costs to remove the stink trees and other immediate maintenance and repairs - major walls are falling down, owner does nothing, though is obligated under our contract, and, big one this: the site is not going to make close to the projected revenues or the revenues of last year. A hard and inescapable fact is that if the site does not make money then debt cannot be serviced in the critical short term while we invest and develop.

With the rate rises we are no longer under hard obligation. We must communicate the offers, when we receive them, within a week, where it will become clear we can walk.

Maybe it’s time to negotiate a lower price. I suspect we would no longer be welcomed on the site…

 

[chaser]

dawsey has done his research and has found a site that ticks all the boxes for location and potential for expansion. His wife works in or worked in marketing so should have a good idea about its potential and how to maximise it.

Going around and around highlighting the downsides and your lower tolerance to risk doesn't add to the thread. He's determined to push on and understands the risks better than all of us.

I hope they succeed and I think they will, fortune favours the brave ( He's not even that brave tbh, the land has value)

Risk and bravery are all very well, but neither will make this place viable.

 

[Dutch 68]

Have a look at this then tell me if there is any sense in this thread.

Buy a campsite in perigueux

Beautiful leisure complex in Perigord Blanc. It has 8 wooden chalets (one of which meets disabled access standards) and 3 caravans, set around a…

france.businessesforsale.com

Buy a campsite in blot l eglise

For sale, beautiful green family campsite with fifty pitches in the Puy-de-Dome, Auvergne, near the magnificent Gorges de la Sioule. Very well…

france.businessesforsale.com

That first one looks fab, great area too

 

[Dutch 68]

Many thanks

Interest rate rises and the weakness of the pound are factored in to a degree, but the two new things that are giving us some pause for thought are the very significantly increased costs to remove the stink trees and other immediate maintenance and repairs - major walls are falling down, owner does nothing, though is obligated under our contract, and, big one this: the site is not going to make close to the projected revenues or the revenues of last year. A hard and inescapable fact is that if the site does not make money then debt cannot be serviced in the critical short term while we invest and develop.

With the rate rises we are no longer under hard obligation. We must communicate the offers, when we receive them, within a week, where it will become clear we can walk.

Maybe it’s time to negotiate a lower price. I suspect we would no longer be welcomed on the site…

Pleased to see that there is a awakening, we traveled for 8 months last year and trust me, it might seem difficult sometimes but there are real gems out there for sale, which presents much better returns on your hard earned.

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[Minxy]

Many thanks

Interest rate rises and the weakness of the pound are factored in to a degree, but the two new things that are giving us some pause for thought are the very significantly increased costs to remove the stink trees and other immediate maintenance and repairs - major walls are falling down, owner does nothing, though is obligated under our contract, and, big one this: the site is not going to make close to the projected revenues or the revenues of last year. A hard and inescapable fact is that if the site does not make money then debt cannot be serviced in the critical short term while we invest and develop.

With the rate rises we are no longer under hard obligation. We must communicate the offers, when we receive them, within a week, where it will become clear we can walk.

Maybe it’s time to negotiate a lower price. I suspect we would no longer be welcomed on the site…

Surely part of the value of the site is based on the revenue it brings in so it if not as high as you were led to believe, regardless of your lack of getting a low enough interest rate to allow you to pull the plug, this alone should allow you to pull back and/or negotiate a lower price if you still want to go ahead. They would be fools to take 'offence' at this as, from what you've said, they are very unlikely to get anyone else interested at the price they are currently asking especially with all the issues the site has plus they've already incurred costs for all the legal work etc (as you no doubt have), which won't be insignificant.

I admire you for wanting to try to do this but my head is very much saying don't, I can only see a lot of issues, some of which you won't even have discovered yet, which could totally destroy your dream.

Perhaps setting your sights on a smaller more intimate place where you can offer 'high class' type pitches and/or accommodation which would likely give a much better yield with less hassle, is this the way to go? This could then maybe give you the opportunity to expand in the future if finances/a sensible business move make it viable, but without the risk of buying such a large site with all the problems ... and I haven't even mentioned the chef!

 

[tomag]

Stayed at this one really fabulous site in
Commercial for sale in Saint-Jory-de-Chalais - Dordogne - Family run campsite in the heart of the Périgord Vert with 5 bedroomed house, 46 pitches and restaurant France REF: A20585SGE24 | [14149] (frenchestateagents.com)

 

[dawsey]

Have a look at this then tell me if there is any sense in this thread.

Buy a campsite in perigueux

Beautiful leisure complex in Perigord Blanc. It has 8 wooden chalets (one of which meets disabled access standards) and 3 caravans, set around a…

france.businessesforsale.com

Buy a campsite in blot l eglise

For sale, beautiful green family campsite with fifty pitches in the Puy-de-Dome, Auvergne, near the magnificent Gorges de la Sioule. Very well…

france.businessesforsale.com

Looked at both of these, in person, analysed the accounts. They all look great in an advert.

 

[dawsey]

Surely part of the value of the site is based on the revenue it brings in so it if not as high as you were led to believe, regardless of your lack of getting a low enough interest rate to allow you to pull the plug, this alone should allow you to pull back and/or negotiate a lower price if you still want to go ahead. They would be fools to take 'offence' at this as, from what you've said, they are very unlikely to get anyone else interested at the price they are currently asking especially with all the issues the site has plus they've already incurred costs for all the legal work etc (as you no doubt have), which won't be insignificant.

I admire you for wanting to try to do this but my head is very much saying don't, I can only see a lot of issues, some of which you won't even have discovered yet, which could totally destroy your dream.

Perhaps setting your sights on a smaller more intimate place where you can offer 'high class' type pitches and/or accommodation which would likely give a much better yield with less hassle, is this the way to go? This could then maybe give you the opportunity to expand in the future if finances/a sensible business move make it viable, but without the risk of buying such a large site with all the problems ... and I haven't even mentioned the chef!

Sorry Minxy, we will try to get a price reduction first, then see how we can find part alternate finance if that fails, though right now we have reasons to be hopeful.

We’ve already taken people round, and established that potential brit residents love the place, confirming what we see as just some of the enormous potential. We won’t give up so easy.

 

[dawsey]

Pleased to see that there is a awakening, we traveled for 8 months last year and trust me, it might seem difficult sometimes but there are real gems out there for sale, which presents much better returns on your hard earned.

Not an awakening. We’ve always been awake. The market is changing under our feet, so to speak. Just means market value needs to be revisited.

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[chaser]

I am still having a look at campsites, I don't want to divert dawsey thread and thought of starting a new one with this as it is of no interest to this thread.
But look what I have just found for anyone who wants a really cheap go at this, looks incredible value for the money.

View this campsite in Alexain, Mayenne (53), France

2 Bed Campsite for sale in Pays de la Loire, Mayenne (53), Alexain | €88,000

www.french-property.com

 

[MisterB]

If i say some of us are 'rooting' for you, would that put a smile on your face or would that just frustrate you more ... LOL

you WILL make the correct decision for you both ...

best wishes

 

[corconx]

@ Chaser think that doesn’t have anything that dawsey eants. Go start your own thread you aren’t interested in this one.

Carol

 

[chaser]

@ Chaser think that doesn’t have anything that dawsey eants. Go start your own thread you aren’t interested in this one.

Carol

I did say that. Just thought someone else might of been interested.
We can't just go starting other threads for this.
Sorry if I have upset you.

 

[Nanniemate]

If i say some of us are 'rooting' for you, would that put a smile on your face or would that just frustrate you more ... LOL

you WILL make the correct decision for you both ...

best wishes

I am still having a look at campsites, I don't want to divert dawsey thread and thought of starting a new one with this as it is of no interest to this thread.
But look what I have just found for anyone who wants a really cheap go at this, looks incredible value for the money.

View this campsite in Alexain, Mayenne (53), France

2 Bed Campsite for sale in Pays de la Loire, Mayenne (53), Alexain | €88,000

www.french-property.com

Me thinks chaser is secretly looking to buy a campsite

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[Peter and Julie]

I did say that. Just thought someone else might of been interested.
We can't just go starting other threads for this.
Sorry if I have upset you.

I thought it was informative!

 

[carolyn]

@ Chaser think that doesn’t have anything that dawsey eants. Go start your own thread you aren’t interested in this one.

Carol

Sounds like a very good idea anyway as it is making what is a long thread a bit messy. I think chaser is interested in the thread even though he thinks the plan will fail!

Even though lots of us are dubious about it we really want it to work for them both. I think it’s just human nature to worry on others behalf as we’ve invested a lot of reading time each morning in the thread

 

[brysee]

I did say that. Just thought someone else might of been interested.
We can't just go starting other threads for this.
Sorry if I have upset you.

Haha you get a bit of grief chaser must be thick skinned like myself

 

[MisterB]

I think the reality is that everyone would love the venture to be successful, some have made comments because that's what people do, it's a forum and encourages comments to be made.
Even negative comments (if they are truly negative and I'm not so sure they are) can act as checks and balances but i don't see the point over labouring over the same point that only adds or reinforces the opinion of the poster and not much more (and I'm guilty of that myself)

Onwards and upwards people !!

 

[tinkertaylor]

I did say that. Just thought someone else might of been interested.
We can't just go starting other threads for this.
Sorry if I have upset you.

I think it would be a great new thread, the site you have found is very interesting.

dawsey is setting us a great example on how to go about it, we could have a network of French campsites based around this thread and yours, if you start it.

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