Friendly but firm police caution re A frame in France

[big map]

I think we'll do Scandinavia from now on.

 

[Speve]

I think we'll do Scandinavia from now on.

Think that's a great idea we loved it planning another visit in the future Denmark or Sweden.
Enjoy your trip Andrea.

 

[bigtwin]

Whilst there are undoubtedly exceptions any regular aire user will know trailers are permitted in most Aires.

Malcolm

I think the term tolerated rather than permitted probably covers it better.

Ian

 

[Tootles]

I always research my concerns but am often grateful to find snippets of information on here which alert me to something I need to research.

Top Banana! And, your so right! I researched towing and parking in Skegness, and guess what! NO RESTRICTIONS! Thats because we live in a country where common sense prevails, and we abide by the Road Traffic Act, plus Construction and Use Regulations, not some jumped up area to area of smelly France, where you slip the Gendarme a 50 Euro note.

 

[olley]

No parking restrictions in skeggy because nobody goes to the dump.
And if they do, they don't stop.

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[SuperMike]

As the forum owner do you not feel some responsibility for the accuracy of factual statements on here? As you said everybody has a right to express their own opinions, but when somebody posts statements like ,'it is illegal for motor homes towing trailers to use Aires' without a shred of evidence to corroborate it degrades the value of the forum as an information source. Whilst there are undoubtedly exceptions any regular aire user will know trailers are permitted in most Aires.
Malcolm

That's a bit heavy. One of the great things about Fun is that it is not greatly policed. Jim (may his name be praised, giver of free memeberships to grovellers) would need a full time job for that. People are people, I pick out what people say and if it concerns me, go off and do further research. No matter what anyone says about any subject, be it 'A' frames or putting in a screw, if you intend to use it then it bears checking. Especially if it is muttered by the Very @old-mo EcclesCakeTypeFellowPerson.

Having said all that however, there is one exception. Whatever I write can be considered fact, spot on, undenighable, correct, faughtless, without argument, etc etc.

 

[Tootles]

No parking restrictions in skeggy because nobody goes to the dump.
And if they do, they don't stop.

Thats not nice...........JIM goes there all the time!! And, he lives fairly close!

I hear Coventry is nice this time of year........

 

[Charlie123]

For the record.

I think with hindsight my comments have been a wee bit to the point. Brutal even.

In no way have I set out or intended to be disagreeable or insulting so to those who have caught the winds of my frustration over this legal or not question I unreservedly apologise .....

Not great times for us and further hindrance to our already shredded plans is getting on top so perhaps it's time to withdraw from the forum as no one deserves to listen to an unreasonable idiot like me just because I'm hacked off.

Charlie.

 

[tacr2man]

For the record.

I think with hindsight my comments have been a wee bit to the point. Brutal even.

In no way have I set out or intended to be disagreeable or insulting so to those who have caught the winds of my frustration over this legal or not question I unreservedly apologise .....

Not great times for us and further hindrance to our already shredded plans is getting on top so perhaps it's time to withdraw from the forum as no one deserves to listen to an unreasonable idiot like me just because I'm hacked off.

Charlie.

Dont beat yourself up too much , there are others that dont have any reasons , in the end sticks and stones etc and he who is without

 

[Jim]

As the forum owner do you not feel some responsibility for the accuracy of factual statements on here?

Absolutely not. What would you want me to do; vet every post for accuracy. How would I know what to allow and what not too. Anyway it's not necessary.

Thing is, the one thing forums are exceptionally good at is getting the right answers. On a busy forum (not so much on quiet ones) the right or best answers ALWAYS float to the top and consensus is achieved. If someone posts bad info it will be shown to be bad.

Tell you what, go and find me a thread where someone has posted totally wrong or dangerous information that has not been corrected or questioned before the threads end.

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[Larrynwin]

I think the point is being missed. There was mention earlier in the thread stating that caravans on Aires was a problem but trailers not included in the post.
Aires I understand are for Camping Cars ie Motorhomes and it's likely if a motorhome is towing a trailer it's not a problem whereas a caravan is entirely different.

 

[Tootles]

Having said all that however, there is one exception. Whatever I write can be considered fact, spot on, undenighable, correct, faughtless, without argument, etc etc.

I dont know. What the hell is all this lot, *Funsters* having their monthly's? Does it matter who said what about tugging a car wherever behind whatever and stopping someplace ever? Too many 'insulted' peeps spitting dummies out. Lighten up, it dosent matter.

 

[olley]

Thats not nice...........JIM goes there all the time!! And, he lives fairly close!

I hear Coventry is nice this time of year........

Unlike skeggy which is not nice no matter what time of the year.

 

[tonyidle]

Absolutely not. What would you want me to do; vet every post for accuracy. How would I know what to allow and what not too. Anyway it's not necessary.

Thing is, the one thing forums are exceptionally good at is getting the right answers. On a busy forum (not so much on quiet ones) the right or best answers ALWAYS float to the top and consensus is achieved. If someone posts bad info it will be shown to be bad.

Tell you what, go and find me a thread where someone has posted totally wrong or dangerous information that has not been corrected or questioned before the threads end.

Bit like the rest of t'internet really.

 

[Pia]

@Charlie please don't go....we all have a grump from time to time and sometimes we get things wrong.....but what the heck everyone who is anyone will understand and forgive.....I'm fairly certain

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[yodeli]

No, but my people can arrange a pot of paint and a suitable brush.


JJ

I doubt your people know anything about WHITE paint.... They seem to only know LIGHT BLUE one...!!! Just saying

 

[joka250]

A marathon read from post 1 to the end. Lots of facts, lots of oppinions but no definitive outcome and seemingly things a little too personal at times. What suits me won't necessarily suit any body else so i say what i think andlet all others make up their own minds. I don't won't to tow anything so i rent a car, walk or use public transport, it suits me but not everybody. Do i resent a frame users, no, it what suits them. I don't know the law well enough to comment on the legality, if there is doubt it is for the individual to make up their own minds as to what they should or shouldn't do. If there are consequences it is for them to face. The laws seem vague and often untested so its not always an east decision not helped by people like me sticking their oar in.

The only other point I would make is that as said earlier, many Aires are localy administered and availability can be withdrawn or amended at any time, we all (French included) have part to play in ensuring our actions don't lead to closures as the Aires are a huge benefit, we could do with UK Aires.

 

[Archie H]

We've towed our Smart car behind our Autotrail for six years without a problem. Yesterday though, a policeman approached us while we were having a break in an Aire near the Cherbourg peninsula and told us it was illegal to use an A frame in France. Normally the fine would be 135 euros but as we were on our way home....

He was very pleasant about it, but we didn't want to press the point!

We are thinking of changing to a low loader anyway because we want to go to Spain. We're even tempted to take a lightweight motorbike or scooter on the back, despite our - how shall I put it - advancing years.

Any thoughts?

I have the answer to keep you legal abroad! It's a Smart Carcaddy trailer. Designed specifically for the Smart Car. I kept it and the smart car after I sold my MH. It was last used 2 years ago and I would like to move it on as it is no longer needed. I also have a scooter/Motorcycle rack that I used for my motor bikes with MH. It is also available should you like. If interested in either I can be contacted directly by email at, archiegser@gmail.com or call/sms on 07801 199578 I'm located in East Midlands near Newark.
Picture attached.

 

[TERRY&PAULINE]

I have towed both and find towing a car on an A frame feels more stable than a caravan, I can also use the MH without the car, I cannot go away in a caravan without one, who wants to go abroad anyway
we haven't seen all of our Beautiful Country yet and won't live long enough to do so, every one to their own

 

[moulin 87]

I doubt your people know anything about WHITE paint.... They seem to only know LIGHT BLUE one...!!! Just saying

@yodeli What does the 'code de la route' say about limitations of one vehicle towing another? Are there limitations on maximum speed etc. and are you allowed to tow a another car on the autoroute?

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[spitfire]

Have seen the fun fair folks with a lorry, trailer then a caravan but they are an exception after all it is France and you guys are not on French plates so fair game lol

 

[yodeli]

@moulin 87 Right now, I just have no time to translate. See if google gives some reasonnable translation and if it sounds daft to you , then call me back, I'll have a look!

Dispositions applicables aux ensembles formés par un véhicule remorqueur et un véhicule eu panne ou accidenté.
En savoir plus sur cet article...
L'ensemble ne doit pas dépasser les vitesses maxima suivantes :

12.1. 80 km à l'heure pour les ensembles formés à partir d'un véhicule remorqueur de la catégorie A ou B si le véhicule remorqué est relié au véhicule remorqueur par un attelage rigide ne permettant aucun débattement transversal du véhicule remorqué par rapport au véhicule remorqueur et si le freinage pratiquement simultané du véhicule remorqueur et du véhicule remorqué est assuré par simple action du conducteur du véhicule remorqueur agissant depuis son poste de conduite sur une commande unique sans qu'il cesse de tenir le volant de direction, toutes dispositions étant prises pour qu'une rupture de canalisation sur un des deux véhicules n'entraîne pas la mise hors service du freinage sur le véhicule remorqueur.

12.2. 60 km à l'heure pour les ensembles formés à partir d'un véhicule remorqueur de la catégorie A ou B si le remorquage se fait avec un attelage rigide ne permettant aucun débattement transversal du véhicule remorqué par rapport au véhicule remorqueur mais sans freinage simultané des deux véhicules ou s'il se fait avec soulèvement du train avant du véhicule tracté.
12.3. 60 km à l'heure pour les ensembles formés à partir d'un véhicule remorqueur de la catégorie C si le véhicule remorqué est relié au véhicule remorqueur par un attelage rigide ne permettant aucun débattement transversal du véhicule remorqué par rapport au véhicule remorqueur et si le freinage pratiquement simultané du véhicule remorqueur et du véhicule remorqué est assuré par simple action du conducteur du véhicule remorqueur agissant depuis son poste de conduite sur une commande unique sans qu'il cesse de tenir le volant de direction, toutes dispositions étant prises pour qu'une rupture de canalisation sur un-des deux véhicules n'entraîne pas la mise hors service du freinage sur le véhicule remorqueur.

12.4. 45 km à l'heure pour les ensembles. formés à partir d'un véhicule remorqueur de la catégorie C si le remorquage se fait avec un attelage rigide ne permettant aucun débattement transversal du véhicule remorqué par rapport au véhicule remorqueur mais sans freinage simultané des deux véhicules, ou s'il- se fait avec soulèvement du train avant du véhicule tracté.

12.5. 25 km à l'heure dans tous les autres cas.

12.6. Il n'est pas dérogé aux pouvoirs des préfets et des maires de fixer, par application de l'article R. 225 du code de la route, des mesures plus rigoureuses si l'intérêt de la sécurité ou de l'ordre public l'exige.

Article 13
L'ensemble formé par le véhicule remorqueur défini à l'article 4 ci-dessus et le véhicule en panne ou accidenté doit répondre aux conditions de freinage suivantes :

13.1. Le dispositif principal et le dispositif de secours du seul véhicule remorqueur doivent permettre le respect des dispositions prévues par l'article 32 de l'arrêté du 18 août 1955 susvisé.

13.2. Le dispositif de parcage du seul véhicule remorqueur doit permettre l'immobilisation de l'ensemble sur une déclivité ascendante ou descendante de 12 % dans les conditions prévues par l'article 8 de l'arrêté du 18 août 1955 susvisé.

 

[currynutter]

Who is the most selfish,the three Brit m/h with trailers in the next space and then their cars taking the third space as seen at Gravelines last year.or me who was pi..ed of because I could not get in?

 

[Brakers]

Yodeli's post translated by Colin's

Provisions applicable to the ensembles formed by a towing vehicle and a vehicle had failure or an accident.
More on this article...
The whole should not exceed the following maximum speeds:

12.1. 80 km per hour for the sets formed from a category A tow vehicle or B if the towed vehicle is connected to the towing vehicle by a rigid hitch allowing no transverse deflection of the towed vehicle compared to the towing vehicle and if the virtually simultaneous braking of the towing vehicle and towed vehicle is provided by simple action of the driver of the towing vehicle acting from his cockpit on a single order unless it ceases to hold the Steering, wheel all arrangements being made so that a burst pipe on a two vehicles does not cause the decommissioning of the brake on the towing vehicle.

12.2. 60 km per hour for the sets formed from a towing vehicle of category A or B if the tow is done with a rigid hitch not allowing no transverse deflection of the vehicle towed from the tow vehicle but without simultaneous braking of vehicles or if it is done with the uprising of the train front of the towed vehicle.
12.3. 60 km per hour for the sets formed from a category C towing vehicle if the towed vehicle is connected to the towing vehicle by a rigid hitch, not allowing any cross of the towed vehicle travel in the towing vehicle and if the virtually simultaneous braking of the towing vehicle and towed vehicle is provided by simple action of the driver of the towing vehicle acting from his cockpit on a single order unless it ceases to hold the steering wheel, all provisions being made for a burst pipe on one - of the two vehicles does not result in the decommissioning of the brake on the towing vehicle.

12.4. 45 km per hour for the sets. formed from a category C towing vehicle if the towing is done with a rigid hitch allowing no transverse deflection of the vehicle towed from the tow vehicle but without simultaneous braking of vehicles, or is he... is done with the uprising of the train front of the towed vehicle.

12.5-25 km per hour in all other cases.

12.6. it shall not affect the powers of the prefects and mayors to set more stringent measures pursuant to article r 225 of the code of the road, if required in the interest of the security or public order.

Article 13
The set formed by the towing vehicle defined in article 4 above and the disabled vehicle or accident must meet the following braking conditions:

13.1. the main feature and the only towing vehicle backup feature must allow compliance with the provisions of article 32 of the Decree of 18 August 1955 referred to above.

13.2. the parking of only towing vehicle shall allow the immobilization of the together on a gradient up or down by 12% as provided for by article 8 of the Decree of 18 August 1955 referred to above.
Translated Yodeli's post

 

[yodeli]

I've roughly read it in French and it seems to be a good translation.
I didn't find (yet) if it can be done on the motorway..... But I doubt it. I think only the official towing trucks are allowed to be on the motorways

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[johnp10]

Have seen the fun fair folks with a lorry, trailer then a caravan but they are an exception after all it is France and you guys are not on French plates so fair game lol

UK rules:
They are Motor Tractors (Showman's Tractor) rather than goods vehicles and as such are allowed to carry a fixed generator and pull two trailers.
Speed is limited, I believe to 40mph, not sure.

 

[PeteH]

The car trailer suppliers will be happy now, but those that supplied A frames wont be, so some you win, some you lose I suppose. But I really cant see the point of toads on the back of mohos, as some have said you might as well use a caravan instead, then you have a car to use when you get there.
This must be the reason so many go from caravaning to mohos, then back to caravaning, difficult to get anything right until you have tried it I suppose.
Ah well as long as your happy eh?

They aren't legal in the UK.

The matter has never been tested in court or by parliament so they aren't specifically illegal either. That's as far as it goes no matter what the salesman might tell you.

That is my understanding too. It has never been tested by the courts, unlike "dollys".

Also if you're stopped and made to unhitch but don't happen to have a second driver who can drive the car the fine becomes a minor detail.

I have been is just that position, Sat there, shrugged the shoulders, pointed out SWMBO`s Blue Badge, and proceeded to commence removing all the kit out of the Punto, the Gaurdia, got the message (I was going to abandon it) and waved me on with a "warning"

...my point is that it's not just caravans who can't use Aires..it is ANYONE towing...including motorhomes towing cars or motorhomes towing trailers....though we have seen both in Aires.... obviously disregrding the rules.

Including me, 32ft R-V, twin axle trailer, Overall length some 48+ft.

UK rules:
They are Motor Tractors (Showman's Tractor) rather than goods vehicles and as such are allowed to carry a fixed generator and pull two trailers.
Speed is limited, I believe to 40mph, not sure.

A15, 2 weeks ago, Tri-axle Scania, "Cyclone" ride, and towing a Caravan!. and NOT doing 40 either, about 52 by my Sat Nav!.

My own "take" on it is:-


As someone who started caravanning circa 1970. And went to a R-V, when they told my wife she should no longer travel long distances without regular breaks, May I say:- I have "Toaded" all over the USA, 15000+miles in fact. Where the practice is universally accepted. I have never been able to understand the "European Phobia" against the practice. But then, That`s Europe!. (Stupidity personified IMHO). The pro`s and cons are well known, and as (allegedly) free persons we can make educated choices according to our will. There are known arguments for and against the practice. Having recently returned to the use of a Motor-home, after a 3 year break during which we had a Caravan, that which we discarded largely because neither myself nor my (disabled) wife could sit comfortably in the Seating, whereas now we have a "Captains" chair each with a leg-rest (side bench). I tow an old Punto on "A" frame. AND IT WORKS FOR US!. It is however a Grey area. having (unlike "Dolly" Frames) never been tested in the law courts. BTW, I Know from experience that my (now) rig is far quicker to set -up than a Caravan!. Unless or until they are the subject of a "test" case (as happened with "Dolly" frames) then the legality is not an issue. Any debate as to the "technical" aspect of use is just that, a debate!.

BTW. US Style "tow dollys" are completely reversible!. I know, I brought a Rental car from Florida to Texas on a "U-Haul" one, Behind the R-V when we Bought It!, It is also IMHO an even better device than an "A" frame but has been judged as "legal only for the recovery of disabled vehicles" by the Courts Circa 1975ish.

IF, I decide in the future to go back to Spain, as we did for many years prior to choosing the USA. I would likely buy a Smart and Trailer it, JUST to avoid the hassle of being "pulled" by Spanish "plod" (3 times). Someone makes (made) a trailer with a folding Draw bar, and that would take up the least space on site. ( one guy I know, put plywood base on the trailer and used it for a Gazebo, to Barbecue in / on!).

 

[spitfire]

UK rules:
They are Motor Tractors (Showman's Tractor) rather than goods vehicles and as such are allowed to carry a fixed generator and pull two trailers.
Speed is limited, I believe to 40mph, not sure.

Ah that is interesting Does that apply to the gypsies too ?

 

[Tootles]

we haven't seen all of our Beautiful Country yet and won't live long enough to do so, every one to their own

Top post! Couldnt agree more!! I mean, to stop by the wayside and sample a nice bit of Wensleydale, instead of that Cannonball muck you need a straw to eat.

 

[tonyidle]

Ah that is interesting Does that apply to the gypsies too ?

No part of Motoring Law applies to gypsies. I thought everyone knew that.

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