Friendly but firm police caution re A frame in France

[Louis]

I like that, But, think supermarket trolleys? pull one backwards and the front wheels tend to go in all directions.

You can’t steer supermarket trolleys

 

[Simbathecat9]

I'm reluctant to dive in in this thread but as a MH owner who tows a Hyundai I10 on an electronically braked A frame, my thoughts:
I accept possibility of being fined or having to separate toad and MH in France but my wife can drive her car if needed. I make sure I have all the paperwork and have enough French to show how it all works. Not had a problem on two trips across France en route to Italy (twice) and to Loire (once).

Convenience of having small car to navigate some tiny roads/hairpins etc around the Italian lakes in my view makes it worthwhile.

MH has cruise control so set that to 55mph and enjoy scenery, only overtake if necessary.

Reversing in straight line is fine but be prepared to unhitch and separate quickly (not forgetting to handbrake car before detaching0

 

[Simbathecat9]

Oops ! Continuing from above! Try and make sure of your route avoiding hairpin bends, use street view to check entrances to campsites (would have done this when caravanning but streetview didn't exist then!).
Noted comments about stability. In general I would agree but I know from direct experience that a toad can snake under the wrong conditions and, by g**** it was more scary than I care to remember. In UK towing a trailer on motorway is still limited to 60 mph but I have had people go past me at 70 or so towing a car behind a MH.

What got me to the A frame was having a disabled wife and biking was not practical for her and having some bad experiences with hire car rip offs in Italy.

Incidentally the toad is great for putting all the gear in that you don't want cluttering up the MH when in transit!!!

 

[gus-lopez]

Sorry, but “negating the coc” ( no such offence BTW) is not illegal on a used vehicle (ie one registered this morning or earlier)
The legislation only covers a newly registered vehice in this country
Dont know and dont care about overseas

I do not however condone driving too fast, which is a real offence

modifying the vehicle from its originsl build design , as per thr cocktail, id contrary to the anti tuning get directive.

Do you have or ever have had an A frame and tow car ??? I ask because it may help qualify you comments if you have...

Yes as I have said before a proper one attached directly to the steering arms each sides for recovery. Which is in reality what they were meant for

If the front wheels are maneuvered into the correct alignment at the start then with the correct technique they will stay in that alignment.

and hoe msny will wait while someone does that? 3

Martin whatever the configuration the A framed car behaves in the same manner as a wagon and drag.... The technicalities can cloud the issue the results are the same.

No it does not nor can it ever unless it is the type that attaches directly to the steering arms underneath.

Unhitch and turn car around, is quicker than trying to find somewhere to turn 43ft around.
View attachment 240205

as above who we have the patience to wait while some one does that,? Also the bike rack is illegal on that mh unless used with additional markers board when not towing. Obscures the lights.

 

[Larrynwin]

modifying the vehicle from its originsl build design , as per thr cocktail, id contrary to the anti tuning get directive.


Yes as I have said before a proper one attached directly to the steering arms each sides for recovery. Which is in reality what they were meant for

and hoe msny will wait while someone does that? 3
No it does not nor can it ever unless it is the type that attaches directly to the steering arms underneath.

as above who we have the patience to wait while some one does that,? Also the bike rack is illegal on that mh unless used with additional markers board when not towing. Obscures the lights.

Not sure about the last paragraph being strictly accurate.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[sweetie]

Not without bikes on

 

[Larrynwin]

I don’t think a marker board on a bike rack is required in the UK.

 

[Mikey RV]

as above who we have the patience to wait while some one does that,? Also the bike rack is illegal on that mh unless used with additional markers board when not towing. Obscures the lights.

Takes less than two minutes to unhitch and remove the whole thing, which is less time than a lot of driver take to think about reversing. Bike rack is perfectly legal and does not obscure lights.

 

[Charlie123]

modifying the vehicle from its originsl build design , as per thr cocktail, id contrary to the anti tuning get directive.


Yes as I have said before a proper one attached directly to the steering arms each sides for recovery. Which is in reality what they were meant for

and hoe msny will wait while someone does that? 3
No it does not nor can it ever unless it is the type that attaches directly to the steering arms underneath.

as above who we have the patience to wait while some one does that,? Also the bike rack is illegal on that mh unless used with additional markers board when not towing. Obscures the lights.

The type of frame apart from its shape bears little resemblance to what we use.

Who cares if someone hasn’t got patience for two minutes.

You keep referring to directives and most usually get the interpretation completely wrong..

 

[sweetie]

Think some do it to wind you up Charlie cause they know you sometimes bite.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[gus-lopez]

Not sure about the last paragraph being strictly accurate.

The requirements are that standing parallel to the vehicle and 3m back you must be able to see the opposite side complete lights unobstructed by anything . The bike rack when lowered, must be above the top of lights or a trailer board complete with number plate is required.
The bike rack when lowered on that van will obstruct the lights.
You see huge amounts of cars wjth totally illegal bike racks these days.

I don’t think a marker board on a bike rack is required in the UK.

probably not but better safe than sorry if unmarked and someone hits it.

You keep referring to directives and most usually get the interpretation completely wrong..

And one of the reasons I no longer do homologation/legalising /importation/residency work for anyone British as, having asked for help,
they suddenly know how it should be done

& another toad passed me onM23 yesterday 75+mph and no breakaway chain

 

[tonyidle]

& another toad passed me onM23 yesterday 75+mph and no breakaway chain

Interesting. The ones I've seen that do have break-away cables appear to have a simple loop attached to both sides of the hitch and looped around the ball. A braked trailer should have a cable looped around or attached to a fixed point on the car that, in the event of the trailer becoming detached, applies the trailer (toad) brakes and then detaches. The other kind is for unbraked trailers.

 

[Charlie123]

They do or should have a breakaway cable like any other braked trailer.

Just cos one clown didn’t have one doesent mean no one has them.

We are as usual,down to the pathetic nit picking now the usual rubbish has been dismissed.

 

[Minxy]

Me thinks someone has a very touchy spot about a-frames ...

 

[Larrynwin]

For and against

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[tonyidle]

They do or should have a breakaway cable like any other braked trailer.

Just cos one clown didn’t have one doesent mean no one has them.

We are as usual,down to the pathetic nit picking now the usual rubbish has been dismissed.

I wasn't nit-picking - it was just an observation. The electronic A frames do the break-away thing electronically therefore allowing the towing vehicle to clear the toad as it brakes to a standstill. Caravans and trailers do the same mechanically. I have seen mechanical A frames with the correct arrangement but some, for no apparent reason, seem to use the unbraked, light, trailer system. As l said it was simply an observation and those I've seen appear to be unaltered by the owner.

Just done a quick Google & looked at a load of pictures of A frames & they all had proper breakaway cables. .

 

[Louis]

Think some do it to wind you up Charlie cause they know you sometimes bite.

Interesting. The ones I've seen that do have break-away cables appear to have a simple loop attached to both sides of the hitch and looped around the ball. A braked trailer should have a cable looped around or attached to a fixed point on the car that, in the event of the trailer becoming detached, applies the trailer (toad) brakes and then detaches. The other kind is for unbraked trailers.

You never loop a breakaway cable around the tow ball, unless you cocked up when fitting tow bar, there should be a purposely attached plate behind the tow ball with a hole for the cable to be attached

 

[2657]

You never loop a breakaway cable around the tow ball, unless you cocked up when fitting tow bar, there should be a purposely attached plate behind the tow ball with a hole for the cable to be attached

Perfectly acceptable to loop the breakaway cable around the towball, may be better practice to use a fixing point but all advice that I have seen, Caravan Club etc points to this being OK.

 

[Louis]

Perfectly acceptable to loop the breakaway cable around the towball, may be better practice to use a fixing point but all advice that I have seen, Caravan Club etc points to this being OK.

As a last resort, if no other fixing point available - from the same sources

 

[Cheshirecat57]

This is tedious
We are all adults
Those that want one, buy one and use it

Those that dont want one...fine....the legislation is what it is.

Move on pleeeeease

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[2657]

This is tedious
We are all adults
Those that want one, buy one and use it

Those that dont want one...fine....the legislation is what it is.

Move on pleeeeease

Nobody forces you to look at the thread

 

[2657]

As a last resort, if no other fixing point available - from the same sources

No mention of 'last resort' on any guides that I have looked at.

Not a breakaway cable admittedly but most unbraked trailers have a breakaway chain and looping round the towball is the only option.

 

[Louis]

No mention of 'last resort' on any guides that I have looked at.

Not a breakaway cable admittedly but most unbraked trailers have a breakaway chain and looping round the towball is the only option.

Thought it was about breakaway cable on braked trailers or a frames? Unbraked trailers should have a chain though

 

[Cheshirecat57]

Nobody forces you to look at the thread

You are absolutely correct
Bye

 

[2657]

Thought it was about breakaway cable on braked trailers or a frames? Unbraked trailers should have a chain though

Yes it was but somehow breakaway cables were mentioned and you said they should never be looped over the towball unless a cock up infitting had been made. This is factually incorrect as many towball installations do not have fixing points, swan neck towballs for example.

I mentioned the chains used on unbraked trailers as a perfectly acceptable and safe use of a breakaway mechanism where looping round the towball is the only option.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[2657]

You are absolutely correct
Bye

Bye bye

 

[Louis]

Yes it was but somehow breakaway cables were mentioned and you said they should never be looped over the towball unless a cock up infitting had been made. This is factually incorrect as many towball installations do not have fixing points, swan neck towballs for example.

I mentioned the chains used on unbraked trailers as a perfectly acceptable and safe use of a breakaway mechanism where looping round the towball is the only option.

You also quoted breakaway chains??
Swan Neck tow bars - as I previously mentioned- if a dedicated attachment is not available for the cable , hooking over the towball is a last resort , but there are other methods to include such towbars.
Anyhow that’s all I’m inputting here, this is what I was taught 32 yrs ago and nothing much has changed since

 

[Charlie123]

This is tedious
We are all adults
Those that want one, buy one and use it

Those that dont want one...fine....the legislation is what it is.

Move on pleeeeease

This is a forum. On a forum we debate. If you do not wish to debate move on pleeeeeeease .

 

[gus-lopez]

Interesting. The ones I've seen that do have break-away cables appear to have a simple loop attached to both sides of the hitch and looped around the ball. A braked trailer should have a cable looped around or attached to a fixed point on the car that, in the event of the trailer becoming detached, applies the trailer (toad) brakes and then detaches. The other kind is for unbraked trailers.

Braked I always use an additional chain ,unbraked I use two.

They do or should have a breakaway cable like any other braked trailer.

Just cos one clown didn’t have one doesent mean no one has them.

We are as usual,down to the pathetic nit picking now the usual rubbish has been dismissed.

It isn't nit-picking it is possibly endangering me & if that occurred would definitely be endangering the person who was doing it so I comment on everything when travelling , illegal racks, use of phones , no seat belt, etc; etc,

 

[Brakers]

It is prohibited to tow a motor vehicle except in the case of a breakdown or an accident

I think I'll just tell them the car has broken down, so I'm recovering it.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}