Friendly but firm police caution re A frame in France

[big map]

I think I'll just tell them the car has broken down, so I'm recovering it.

But you are only allowed to tow a broken down vehicle to the next exit or the next safe place to leave it (service area).

 

[Brakers]

But you are only allowed to tow a broken down vehicle to the next exit or the next safe place to leave it (service area).

Yes Big map
Yes I realize that I was being facetious.
Best Wishes Tony

 

[Benjii]

I have not read all 17 pages of posts, but although towing dollies are legal in uk for short journeys, are they illegal in the rest of europe as i want to go to Greece soon and I have a A frame towing a Toyota IQ, If Europe is beginning to frown on A frames, how many times will i be pulled up with an A frame than a braked towing dolly. trailers are such a problem to store on campsites and wild camping spots.

 

[GPW]

I have not read all 17 pages of posts, but although towing dollies are legal in uk for short journeys, are they illegal in the rest of europe as i want to go to Greece soon and I have a A frame towing a Toyota IQ, If Europe is beginning to frown on A frames, how many times will i be pulled up with an A frame than a braked towing dolly. trailers are such a problem to store on campsites and wild camping spots.

Basically:
In the UK EVERYTHING is legal unless expressly forbidden by law.
On the continent EVERYTHING is illegal unless expressly allowed by law.

this is why when we (illegally) joined the EU we got several billions new laws arriving.

 

[tonyidle]

I have not read all 17 pages of posts, but although towing dollies are legal in uk for short journeys, are they illegal in the rest of europe as i want to go to Greece soon and I have a A frame towing a Toyota IQ, If Europe is beginning to frown on A frames, how many times will i be pulled up with an A frame than a braked towing dolly. trailers are such a problem to store on campsites and wild camping spots.

A towing dolly is illegal everywhere unless in use for breakdown recovery.

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[old-mo]

On the continent EVERYTHING is illegal unless expressly allowed by law.

this is why when we (illegally) joined the EU we got several billions new laws arriving.

Maybe in that case it is time to leave the EU....

 

[Ivory55]

A towing dolly is illegal everywhere unless in use for breakdown recovery.

Glad you said it as I thought that too but wasn’t sure.

 

[GPW]

Maybe in that case it is time to leave the EU....

.
We already did leave it, with no deal, on 29th March 2019 just as the British act of Parliament laid out and voted through 2 years ago.

The EU and Parliament cannot change that without England repealing the act that was passed.
Technically and legally we are no longer part of the EU, despite the EU and our MPs creating a giant smokescreen pretending we are.

There are no rules.

 

[cornish boy]

.
We already did leave it, with no deal, on 29th March 2019 just as the British act of Parliament laid out and voted through 2 years ago.

The EU and Parliament cannot change that without England repealing the act that was passed.
Technically and legally we are no longer part of the EU, despite the EU and our MPs creating a giant smokescreen pretending we are.

There are no rules.

Are you sure?

According to the Commons Library, on the 27th of March, the Commons voted with a majority of 336 to amend the 29th of March date contained within the Statutory Instrument. The Statutory Instrument was then agreed by the House of Lords.

Broken Link Removed

 

[maison]

@GPW
Now, is that legally accurate, allowing that we were still part of the EU when the law as passed, or is it wishful thinking?

I have no idea, but it’s an interesting proposition. How do we enforce it?

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[GPW]

Well we were never legally part of the EU - that is true, and Cornish boy is right that there was a vote, but that vote votes us
a) back into an illegal entity
and
b) is itself illegal because it gives a foreign power influence over Britain, contrary to existing laws.

I.e. the 27th March vote was treason, just the same as Ed. Heath's initial joining of the EC and Major's formation of the EU.

It's interesting to note that the country voted out (overwhelmingly if you ignore London) but the establishment politicians voted us back in. I.e. this is effectively a class war.

 

[cornish boy]

Well we were never legally part of the EU - that is true, and Cornish boy is right that there was a vote, but that vote votes us
a) back into an illegal entity
and
b) is itself illegal because it gives a foreign power influence over Britain, contrary to existing laws.

I.e. the 27th March vote was treason, just the same as Ed. Heath's initial joining of the EC and Major's formation of the EU.

It's interesting to note that the country voted out (overwhelmingly if you ignore London) but the establishment politicians voted us back in. I.e. this is effectively a class war.

Interested in knowing why you believe that we were never legally part of the EU.

 

[GPW]

Interested in knowing why you believe that we were never legally part of the EU.

Because Edward Health never had the authority to hand over power to a foreign entity.
That was an illegal move which is called 'Treason' and punishable by death.

However when the establishment want to do something, there are no rules.

 

[cornish boy]

Because Edward Health never had the authority to hand over power to a foreign entity.
That was an illegal move which is called 'Treason' and punishable by death.

However when the establishment want to do something, there are no rules.

The Edward Heath no general election/no referendum point which, while a good story, is more bar conversation than legal argument.

I am interested in which part of the Treason Act, Edward Heath contravened?

Taken from the Legislation.Gov.uk website:
Declaration what Offences shall be adjudged Treason. Compassing the Death of the King, Queen, or their eldest Son; violating the Queen, or the King’s eldest Daughter unmarried, or his eldest Son’s Wife; levying War; adhering to the King’s Enemies; killing the Chancellor, Treasurer, or Judges in Execution of their Duty.

Are we really being asked to believe that throughout the last 47 years, the best legal minds in the UK have been too busy with other things to take time and make a name for themselves by challenging the alleged "illegal signing' of the 1972 European Communities Bill.

 

[Jaws]

We thought we were good to go with the Smart Tow system in France. But as I said, we've decided to go for a low loader.

I gather there are a lot of options with these. We'd like it to be light and as easy to store as is possible.

Any advice?

Alternatively, has anyone put a light motorbike or scooter on the back?

We are not exactly spring chooks ( both 70 this year ) but are very happy to have a 125 scoot on a rack to use..
It carries all our weekly shop, gets us out and about visiting places, loads and unloads in minutes, and is fun to use... it allows us to get places we would not normally be able to go, is cheap as chips to run and keep.
We have had quite a few different types over the years. Our present one I bought brand new.. £1500 with FIVE year warranty.. It is a Sym Crox
This is the third Sym we have owned and have no issues with either wear and tear or reliability

We paid £220 new for the rack which is bolted on in place of a tow ball, and it came with the light board too

https://www.watling-towbars.co.uk/motorbike_scooter_carrier.html

I notice they have gone to to £300 inc vat now, but still good value for money

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[GPW]

I am interested in which part of the Treason Act, Edward Heath contravened?

Taken from the Legislation.Gov.uk website:
Declaration what Offences shall be adjudged Treason. Compassing the Death of the King, Queen, or their eldest Son; violating the Queen, or the King’s eldest Daughter unmarried, or his eldest Son’s Wife; levying War; adhering to the King’s Enemies; killing the Chancellor, Treasurer, or Judges in Execution of their Duty.

Are we really being asked to believe that throughout the last 47 years, the best legal minds in the UK have been too busy with other things to take time and make a name for themselves by challenging the alleged "illegal signing' of the 1972 European Communities Bill.

The 1351 treason act? IIRC Blair had that modified, also reading a government website only shows you a) their view and b) the legislative side of the law. At the time it applied.

Here's a brief intro to the legal issues:
http://www.vernoncoleman.com/euillegally.html

The sovereign power belonged to the people, not parliament at that time and Health's actions would have required a vote, which he avoided because he'd lose it. Nothing has changed with the EU avoiding votes they think they'll lose - recall the EU Constitution, voted down so they renamed it and passed it anyway.

Parliament is not above the law, even though they arrogate power and create legislature.

As for the 'best legal minds', the Bar Association is merely a club of unelected people and arrogates much of it's power. Whistleblowing is 'discourages' and you'll find they have everything buttoned down fairly tightly - effectively it's a leg of the establishment and doesn't work for us or our benefit.

 

[Snowbird]

Getting back on subject, I have towed just about everything around Europe and North Africa over the years, boats, trailers and Aframes. Have been pulled by plod several times but only fined once, for being overlength with a 40ft RV and Brian James tri axle trailer with 2 motorbikes, a 60 gallon alloy fuel tank and a Suzuki Vitara on it. The rest of the pulls were obviously out of interest to see how it all worked. I have rencently purchased another Smart car with Aframe and electric braking system and although I may well take my Polish built kneeling trailer with the 2 motorbikes, cooks electric trike and my electric bike inside, I may take the Smarty on its Aframe, have not decided yet. I tow all this stuff around with me for the simple reason that I can if I want. If on the other hand, and on the odd occasion plod wants a back hander, then he can have one with pleasure. Am more than happy to buy him a coffee for the pleasure of having a few toys with me to play with. Sometimes one has to live a little dangerously, and if towing an Aframe is the only thing I have to worry about, I will be more than happy to do it .

 

[bigtwin]

I have not read all 17 pages of posts, but although towing dollies are legal in uk for short journeys, are they illegal in the rest of europe as i want to go to Greece soon and I have a A frame towing a Toyota IQ, If Europe is beginning to frown on A frames, how many times will i be pulled up with an A frame than a braked towing dolly. trailers are such a problem to store on campsites and wild camping spots.

In France only it’d be possibly once but on your journey it’d be more like 8 - 9 times.

Could be more, could be less.

Ian

 

[cornish boy]

The 1351 treason act? IIRC Blair had that modified, also reading a government website only shows you a) their view and b) the legislative side of the law. At the time it applied.

Here's a brief intro to the legal issues:
http://www.vernoncoleman.com/euillegally.html

The sovereign power belonged to the people, not parliament at that time and Health's actions would have required a vote, which he avoided because he'd lose it. Nothing has changed with the EU avoiding votes they think they'll lose - recall the EU Constitution, voted down so they renamed it and passed it anyway.

Parliament is not above the law, even though they arrogate power and create legislature.

As for the 'best legal minds', the Bar Association is merely a club of unelected people and arrogates much of it's power. Whistleblowing is 'discourages' and you'll find they have everything buttoned down fairly tightly - effectively it's a leg of the establishment and doesn't work for us or our benefit.

I have previously read the ramblings and musings of the above General Practitioner turned columnist whose publically stated comments include "it is difficult to avoid the idea that maybe we should keep women out of politics. Let them bake cakes".
So to be honest, I remain unable to place any validity upon his comments.

The 1972 European Commnities Bill went through the Commons and the House of Lords and then received Royal Assent to become an Act of Parliament; there have been twelve General Elections since it became an Act during which anti EU parties failed to use the alleged Treason to gain any significant gains; there has been 47 years for it to have been legally tested and I am certain that if Nigel Farage thought there was any mileage in the story to force Brexit, then he would be all over it like a rash....

To me it remains a great pub/bar story.

But more importantly, this is the wrong forum and thread for this discussion....

Perhaps @Jim could move my posts to the right thread? Thanks in advance Jim.

 

[GPW]

I have previously read the ramblings and musings of the above General Practitioner turned columnist whose publically stated comments include "it is difficult to avoid the idea that maybe we should keep women out of politics. Let them bake cakes".
So to be honest, I remain unable to place any validity upon his comments.

So you were asking the question in order to debunk the illegality of our EU membership. Ok. Your appeal to authority in casting Dr Coleman as a mere GP is a simple diversion and changes nothing, there are plenty of other resources searcheable on the internet that confirms his view.

I note that you skipped over all the issues he brings up and attack him for being a doctor rather than a lawyer: Personally I'd be rather more inclined to trust a doctor!!

The 1972 European Commnities Bill went through the Commons and the House of Lords and then received Royal Assent to become an Act of Parliament;

You again ignore the simple fact that Paliament did not have the authority to do this.

How many more times do I need to explain this to you?

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[GPW]

Getting back on subject, I have towed just about everything around Europe and North Africa over the years,

Just out of interest, what was the reason for towing a campervan with a motorhome?

 

[cornish boy]

So you were asking the question in order to debunk the illegality of our EU membership. Ok. Your appeal to authority in casting Dr Coleman as a mere GP is a simple diversion and changes nothing, there are plenty of other resources searcheable on the internet that confirms his view.

I note that you skipped over all the issues he brings up and attack him for being a doctor rather than a lawyer: Personally I'd be rather more inclined to trust a doctor!!


You again ignore the simple fact that Paliament did not have the authority to do this.

How many more times do I need to explain this to you?

But you haven't explained anything nor proved any facts to me.

You stated it was Treason...
You stated it was illegal....

 

[Larrynwin]

.
We already did leave it, with no deal, on 29th March 2019 just as the British act of Parliament laid out and voted through 2 years ago.

The EU and Parliament cannot change that without England repealing the act that was passed.
Technically and legally we are no longer part of the EU, despite the EU and our MPs creating a giant smokescreen pretending we are.

There are no rules.

Unfortunately the leaving date was recently changed to 12th April by Statutory Instrument so a few more days to go.

 

[Snowbird]

Just out of interest, what was the reason for towing a campervan with a motorhome?

Haha, I know it seems a bit strange, but the campervan was a rare Dehler that I bought in Germany. It had been off the road for several years in a storage facility and I did not want to chance driving it back, so went out with my RMB and picked it up. My fears were unfounded as it passed its UK MOT before I got it home, and after a service it was 100%. The guy I sold it to still has it and tours extensively with it.

 

[spitfire]

Well we were never legally part of the EU - that is true, and Cornish boy is right that there was a vote, but that vote votes us
a) back into an illegal entity
and
b) is itself illegal because it gives a foreign power influence over Britain, contrary to existing laws.

I.e. the 27th March vote was treason, just the same as Ed. Heath's initial joining of the EC and Major's formation of the EU.

It's interesting to note that the country voted out (overwhelmingly if you ignore London) but the establishment politicians voted us back in. I.e. this is effectively a class war.

What country was tgat that voted out UK or England . The latter I think

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[GPW]

But you haven't explained anything nor proved any facts to me.

You stated it was Treason...
You stated it was illegal....

Yes. I'm not sure why you think it's my job to explain this to you, the internet is a huge learning resource. As for proving facts to you, I'm puzzled as to any motive to do so, there's little to gain even if you suddenly change your mind - which of course you won't.

More puzzling is the attitude of people who argue and defend their right to give their and everyone elses power away to some unaccountable foreign power.
The same goes for our MPs, busily handing their (our) power over to Brussells after vociferously and fiercely fighting for it at each election.
It makes no sense, they have no mandate to do that and therefore it is a sign of pure corruption, regardless of our ability to diagnose the exact source.

When there's too much corruption and the stink becomes too great we get things like the yellow vests, income equality historically only goes so far until the pitchforks appear.

 

[cornish boy]

 

[Minxy]

Now that I've just bought a giant bag of popcorn can to Treason 'discussers' please go and start their own thread so we can keep debating a-frame legality!

 

[Mikey RV]

Getting back on subject, I have towed just about everything around Europe and North Africa over the years, boats, trailers and Aframes. Have been pulled by plod several times but only fined once, for being overlength with a 40ft RV and Brian James tri axle trailer with 2 motorbikes, a 60 gallon alloy fuel tank and a Suzuki Vitara on it. The rest of the pulls were obviously out of interest to see how it all worked. I have rencently purchased another Smart car with Aframe and electric braking system and although I may well take my Polish built kneeling trailer with the 2 motorbikes, cooks electric trike and my electric bike inside, I may take the Smarty on its Aframe, have not decided yet. I tow all this stuff around with me for the simple reason that I can if I want. If on the other hand, and on the odd occasion plod wants a back hander, then he can have one with pleasure. Am more than happy to buy him a coffee for the pleasure of having a few toys with me to play with. Sometimes one has to live a little dangerously, and if towing an Aframe is the only thing I have to worry about, I will be more than happy to do it .
View attachment 294406 View attachment 294407 View attachment 294408 View attachment 294409

Taking your smartie on an A frame is a risk you take like others. I have been tempted to A frame our toad on our winter trip. I have mates who have done it for years and never been stopped all through France, spain, and Portugal and back. My worry is if at any time you are involved in a accident the insurance company would be laughing because for them it would be a case of, you should have not been A framing your car so you are not covered. Easy get out for them.

 

[big map]

Taking your smartie on an A frame is a risk you take like others. I have been tempted to A frame our toad on our winter trip. I have mates who have done it for years and never been stopped all through France, spain, and Portugal and back. My worry is if at any time you are involved in a accident the insurance company would be laughing because for them it would be a case of, you should have not been A framing your car so you are not covered. Easy get out for them.

Even if you have informed the insurers of your intention?

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