French Lockdown

[MITHRANDIR]

Hairdressers were treated equally to other types of businesses, it was the pubs and restaurants that were treated differently. Hairdressers were the example given to me.
At no stage did i suggest that Hairdressers dont need financial assistance. Here is exactly what i said

"Haridressers werent subsidised as it was a supply and demand economic boost. The demand for getting your haircut outweighed supply of haridressers I would have thought so no need to help them out at that time. Pubs were open and needed footfall as people were concerned about going in (rightly or wrongly)."


I can only presume you run a pub and didnt take the pee, like many of your peers did, with excess claims. Fair play to you if correct.

Still waiting to find out how the economy would be boosted by subsidising those hairdressers at that time in comparison to pubs.

Perhaps going back and rereading my whole statement, what i was replying to (Chaser), rather than a sentence within the paragraph would assist in understanding what I wrote, as I believe that has made you read it out of context.

Fair play, yes i did take it out of context, Apologies, but i don't run a pub or anything like, my point is that i couldn't have taken the P even if i was that way inclined, because i have not had any financial aid to take the P with!

 

[Sapper520]

My son, who lives in The Netherlands, tells me his friends and colleagues have much praise for the UK and how we are dealing with the vaccine roll out.

His French, German and Dutch counterparts have nothing but criticism for their own Governments and the EU Commission.

I’m in daily contact with my family out there. Not mine or my sons political views, just feedback from people who are friends and colleagues who are of various EU Nationalities.

 

[suavecarve]

Fair play, yes i did take it out of context, Apologies, but i don't run a pub or anything like, my point is that i couldn't have taken the P even if i was that way inclined, because i have not had any financial aid to take the P with!

Dammit I really cant be offended now

Cheers

 

[Minxy]

Advice.

I would be taking that advice if I were booking the traditional holiday on a plane to Spain or Greece for a fortnight.
I wont be taking that advice for my motorhome holiday.
I made my decision on seeing a chap spend 6 months in Greece in a motorhome and come back alive.

Northernraider may have come back 'alive' but he's now got a serious affliction FFF = feta fettish flabbiness!

Dammit,

I missed the opportunity of being offended at being called out for BS !

What does it mean though? I thought it meant 'brilliant statistics'!

 

[MITHRANDIR]

Dammit I really cant be offended now

Cheers

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[Minxy]

We talk of taking the 'P'! A friend, who would normally take a two week package holiday, has decided to do a staycation. Went on line to book a lodge for five persons for 5 days, £3,365. That's taking the'P'! Her two weeks abroad would cost considerably less.

Depends what 'lodge' they're looking to book though, no doubt that's one of the luxury ones and they do cost a packet, it would be interesting to know what the cost was for a 'like for like' hotel stay.

 

[Sandancers]

The problem is the scientists can't agree and keep changing their minds

My predictions are pretty spot on to be honest if you go back searching threads i predicted the second lockdown to within a fortnight of it happening ...i even predicted the over 100.000 deaths in uk by christmas

You don't need to be a scientist just a free thinker that doesn't follow the herd.

If you think you're going to be told all the facts in advance you've obviously not learned from past events.

Drip fed information at a time when it suits the powers that be thats how it works.

Don't know about any of your previous predictions, but in posting #405 you made a statement, not a prediction, which in an amazing co-incidence was proved to be false by one of the co-designers of the actual OAZ vaccine.

There is a place for free thinking, tho lateral thinking is perhaps a better word. But when the really knowledgeable person speaks it blows all the amateurs out of the water.

I'll just copy this line out of my signature bar for you, do let me know if you don't agree with Darwin.

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science. ― Charles Darwin, The Descent of Man

 

[Sandancers]

That is true, but still no excuse for wasting public money, awarding contracts to companies for supply of PPE equipment who have never made PPE equipment.

It really doesn't matter if the firms had made the PPE before, what matters is that they could make the PPE to the correct standards for delivery at the right timescale. At the time when there was a major world shortage of PPE the price was somewhat irrelevant !

After all, in WW2 many furniture companies suddenly found themselves turning out bits for the Mosquito, it didn't really matter to the RAF that the week before, Joe with the spokeshave was making a dressing table as long as this week he could make a wing.

 

[MITHRANDIR]

In all of this debate, which is good in my view, the talk of staycations is again in my view inherently dangerous, notwithstanding what the outcome or effect the vaccine will have, our island is just not big enough for its population, and regardless what anyone says not geared up for diseases such as covid, sure the economy will benefit from staycations, which businesses sorely need, but at what cost?, maybe there won't be one, but maybe there will be a cost to pay. No one truly knows. Time will tell.
The government could quite easily see this if they took their HOOA, It is obvious that not all types of vacation are the same in terms of risk, i for one won't be having a staycation, but will travel abroad if allowed, because for me is the safer option, and i have to be more careful than most because i have rheumatoid arthritis and take immunosuppressants, covid is everywhere, by changing my behaviour and some habits i feel that is acceptably safe.
Last year in france, we did not have to mix with anyone, not even for fuel or food, we stayed on aires, and still had a thoroughly enjoyable low risk time, some of that is also true for the uk, but the main difference is as i see it the vast amount of aires, not just in france but throughout europe, which the uk just does not have, and the fact that france for example is three times the size with roughly the same population as the uk.
Motorhome travel can be inherently safer than other kinds of vacation, and what is deemed safe for one is not necessarily safe for another. All depends on one's point of view which thankfully are many and varied.
The uk is not, say like New Zealand for example, roughly the same area BUT, with a population of around 5 million, that should in my view be borne in mind when advocating staycations only.

 

[chaser]

Hairdressers were treated equally to other types of businesses, it was the pubs and restaurants that were treated differently. Hairdressers were the example given to me.
At no stage did i suggest that Hairdressers dont need financial assistance. Here is exactly what i said

"Haridressers werent subsidised as it was a supply and demand economic boost. The demand for getting your haircut outweighed supply of haridressers I would have thought so no need to help them out at that time. Pubs were open and needed footfall as people were concerned about going in (rightly or wrongly)."


I can only presume you run a pub and didnt take the pee, like many of your peers did, with excess claims. Fair play to you if correct.

Still waiting to find out how the economy would be boosted by subsidising those hairdressers at that time in comparison to pubs.

Perhaps going back and rereading my whole statement, what i was replying to (Chaser), rather than a sentence within the paragraph would assist in understanding what I wrote, as I believe that has made you read it out of context.

When I said haircut, it was just an example of other business, maybe a bad one I don't know.
My point was ,why always hospitality, when there are just as deserving other business that are not getting the same handouts.

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[suavecarve]

It really doesn't matter if the firms had made the PPE before, what matters is that they could make the PPE to the correct standards for delivery at the right timescale. At the time when there was a major world shortage of PPE the price was somewhat irrelevant !

After all, in WW2 many furniture companies suddenly found themselves turning out bits for the Mosquito, it didn't really matter to the RAF that the week before, Joe with the spokeshave was making a dressing table as long as this week he could make a wing.

There were a few engineering companies that turned their hand to making ventilators if I remember correctly. I think one was a car manufacturer, but that is testing my memory.

If MITHRANDIR had Mr Hancock's local publican in mind, he has a point !

 

[Northernraider]

Don't know about any of your previous predictions, but in posting #405 you made a statement, not a prediction, which in an amazing co-incidence was proved to be false by one of the co-designers of the actual OAZ vaccine.

There is a place for free thinking, tho lateral thinking is perhaps a better word. But when the really knowledgeable person speaks it blows all the amateurs out of the water.

I'll just copy this line out of my signature bar for you, do let me know if you don't agree with Darwin.

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science. ― Charles Darwin, The Descent of Man

Where was it proved to be false?

Your quote was exactly as i said they dont know.

This isthe problem with people interpreting things to what they want to hear.

Basically they cannot say that you won't need an annual vaccine because they haven't a clue.

But many other scientists who arent selling the vaccine do think that like the flu it will be mutation after mutation and it will require annual vaccines.

 

[MITHRANDIR]

It really doesn't matter if the firms had made the PPE before, what matters is that they could make the PPE to the correct standards for delivery at the right timescale. At the time when there was a major world shortage of PPE the price was somewhat irrelevant !

After all, in WW2 many furniture companies suddenly found themselves turning out bits for the Mosquito, it didn't really matter to the RAF that the week before, Joe with the spokeshave was making a dressing table as long as this week he could make a wing.

That is also true, but some of the companies could not make PPE, and did not have the necessary equipment or expertise to manufacture it, to standard, in a timely manner!, i have been in manufacturing for 40 years trust me i know!, at least furniture companies during the second war used some of the same materials as the mosquito namley wood!
One of the companies awarded 109million is a pest control company for gods sake!!!!!!!

 

[Northernraider]

Don't know about any of your previous predictions, but in posting #405 you made a statement, not a prediction, which in an amazing co-incidence was proved to be false by one of the co-designers of the actual OAZ vaccine.

There is a place for free thinking, tho lateral thinking is perhaps a better word. But when the really knowledgeable person speaks it blows all the amateurs out of the water.

I'll just copy this line out of my signature bar for you, do let me know if you don't agree with Darwin.

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science. ― Charles Darwin, The Descent of Man

So lets get this straight you think that by a scientist saying that he doesnt know is him saying you wont need one ?

Ok then

 

[Northernraider]

That is also true, but some of the companies could not make PPE, and did not have the necessary equipment or expertise to manufacture it, to standard, in a timely manner!, i have been in manufacturing for 40 years trust me i know!, at least furniture companies during the second war used some of the same materials as the mosquito namley wood!
One of the companies awarded 109million is a pest control company for gods sake!!!!!!!

Most of the companies given the contract were conservative donators

Make of that what you will

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[suavecarve]

When I said haircut, it was just an example of other business, maybe a bad one I don't know.
My point was ,why always hospitality, when there are just as deserving other business that are not getting the same handouts.

I wouldnt wee it as a handout. I see it as a boost to the economy.

If there were no scheme the pubs would have done some business, but the money that was put into their sector most certainly helped them (as per your local pub)
But the 2.5 billion didnt stay in the pub, it went into the pockets of the waitresses/waiters, the chef, the catering suppliers, the pig farmers, the brewers. this money that went into their pockets then went into the pockets of other people who then moved the money onto others etc etc.

If the money didnt go to the pub and entice people to spend their money, nobody gains. The waiters/waitresses, chefs, catering suppliers etc would have had no income. The money would have remained static. No growth. No enticement to spend.

If I was given £100 by Barclays and gave it to you for a solar panel, you might go and then buy a boat from wildbill who buys some beehives from dbk who pays money he owed to Barclaybasher who puts it in the bank of his choice, and Barclays have the money back

Everyone has gained something and nobody is worst off apart from Barclaybasher who will be in hospital with a thrombosis.

Thats boosting the economy and the service industry is probably the quickest way of circulating that money. For that purpose I think it was a good idea, added to that is that many many people had some enjoyment and socialisation and in my view infections did not rise at all but there would have been some transmissions caused by it. But we have to be able to live.

 

[MITHRANDIR]

I wouldnt wee it as a handout. I see it as a boost to the economy.

If there were no scheme the pubs would have done some business, but the money that was put into their sector most certainly helped them (as per your local pub)
But the 2.5 billion didnt stay in the pub, it went into the pockets of the waitresses/waiters, the chef, the catering suppliers, the pig farmers, the brewers. this money that went into their pockets then went into the pockets of other people who then moved the money onto others etc etc.

If the money didnt go to the pub and entice people to spend their money, nobody gains. The waiters/waitresses, chefs, catering suppliers etc would have had no income. The money would have remained static. No growth. No enticement to spend.

If I was given £100 by Barclays and gave it to you for a solar panel, you might go and then buy a boat from wildbill who buys some beehives from dbk who pays money he owed to Barclaybasher who puts it in the bank of his choice, and Barclays have the money back

Everyone has gained something and nobody is worst off apart from Barclaybasher who will be in hospital with a thrombosis.

Thats boosting the economy and the service industry is probably the quickest way of circulating that money. For that purpose I think it was a good idea, added to that is that many many people had some enjoyment and socialisation and in my view infections did not rise at all but there would have been some transmissions caused by it. But we have to be able to live.

I have not gained anything except a reduction in my savings!!!!!!!!!

 

[Sandancers]

That is also true, but some of the companies could not make PPE, and did not have the necessary equipment or expertise to manufacture it, to standard, in a timely manner!, i have been in manufacturing for 40 years trust me i know!, at least furniture companies during the second war used some of the same materials as the mosquito namley wood!
One of the companies awarded 109million is a pest control company for gods sake!!!!!!!

Go on then, give me a name of a Company that was awarded a contract to make PPE for the UK Gov. then subsequently fully paid for sub-standard or late delivery of the goods.

 

[yodeli]

Come on children... Play nicely....don't get all angry (I know I know you're just chatting... but as a teacher I've always wanted to say this!!! )
How about telling you about my next week end destination! First time since .... AhoooOOOooo I don't remember, so first time since I took some time just for me! No mum, no grand children, no whoever, just me
Have a look at this campsite 138 kms away from my place, and the weather will be lovely.
My diesel tank is full, so won't need to stop anywhere, and it's away enough from the crowd and still not in a complete lost place.

Have a look.

Broken Link Removed

Nice place for a self isolation

Amicalement
Frankie Now you can chat again... I bet you cooled down a bit

 

[Sandancers]

So lets get this straight you think that by a scientist saying that he doesnt know is him saying you wont need one ?

Ok then View attachment 475919

In posting #405 YOU WROTE;

I don't believe the vaccine is a super saviour. It will be an annual vaccine abd you will still require masks and social distancing for the next couple of years.

Folk seem to be ignoring this fact despite it being repeated regularly by health officials



The above was incorrect, I point out that it was incorrect. Do you now claim you were correct ?

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[MITHRANDIR]

Go on then, give me a name of a Company that was awarded a contract to make PPE for the UK Gov. then subsequently fully paid for sub-standard or late delivery of the goods.

This money had to go somewhere, and £109m was agreed with PestFix, a pest control company with assets of £18,000. A modest £21m went to a Spanish businessman who acted as a “go-between” with Chinese factories. Another £155m went to a family office called Ayanda Capital, which supplied 50m masks deemed unsuitable for NHS use.

There you go.

 

[Sandancers]

This money had to go somewhere, and £109m was agreed with PestFix, a pest control company with assets of £18,000. A modest £21m went to a Spanish businessman who acted as a “go-between” with Chinese factories. Another £155m went to a family office called Ayanda Capital, which supplied 50m masks deemed unsuitable for NHS use.

There you go.

So did PestFix supply the correct goods on time or not ?

Are you sure £155m has actually been paid to Ayanda Capital, if so how do you know ?

 

[chaser]

I wouldnt wee it as a handout. I see it as a boost to the economy.

If there were no scheme the pubs would have done some business, but the money that was put into their sector most certainly helped them (as per your local pub)
But the 2.5 billion didnt stay in the pub, it went into the pockets of the waitresses/waiters, the chef, the catering suppliers, the pig farmers, the brewers. this money that went into their pockets then went into the pockets of other people who then moved the money onto others etc etc.

If the money didnt go to the pub and entice people to spend their money, nobody gains. The waiters/waitresses, chefs, catering suppliers etc would have had no income. The money would have remained static. No growth. No enticement to spend.

If I was given £100 by Barclays and gave it to you for a solar panel, you might go and then buy a boat from wildbill who buys some beehives from dbk who pays money he owed to Barclaybasher who puts it in the bank of his choice, and Barclays have the money back

Everyone has gained something and nobody is worst off apart from Barclaybasher who will be in hospital with a thrombosis.

Thats boosting the economy and the service industry is probably the quickest way of circulating that money. For that purpose I think it was a good idea, added to that is that many many people had some enjoyment and socialisation and in my view infections did not rise at all but there would have been some transmissions caused by it. But we have to be able to live.

Apart from the tenners, our local pub, all above board according to the rules, has had 30,000 handout, all the staff bar one are family, all drawing furlough, had a rates and vat holiday, not had to do a stroke of work, no electric bill, no cleaners, no nothing, just sit back and make more doing nothing, than they ever did working for it, and we are supposed to have sympathy for them.
Plus the money isn't going round anywhere, but straight in the bank, so missing out all your other trades.

 

[Minxy]

That is also true, but some of the companies could not make PPE, and did not have the necessary equipment or expertise to manufacture it, to standard, in a timely manner!, i have been in manufacturing for 40 years trust me i know!, at least furniture companies during the second war used some of the same materials as the mosquito namley wood!
One of the companies awarded 109million is a pest control company for gods sake!!!!!!!

But the pest control company would have some knowledge of the requirement for protective clothing, masks etc so not totally 'alien' to them.

 

[MITHRANDIR]

So did PestFix supply the correct goods on time or not ?

Are you sure £155m has actually been paid to Ayanda Capital, if so how do you know ?

Why didn’t I make millions selling PPE during the pandemic?

For the right kind of hustler, coronavirus has been a rich moneymaking scheme

www.ft.com

Read it, then make up your own mind, if it's not true, then the FT, would be liable for damages for slander.
Very unlikely.

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[MITHRANDIR]

But the pest control company would have some knowledge of the requirement for protective clothing, masks etc so not totally 'alien' to them.

True, but knowing what is required is a far cry from manufacturing it in huge quantities.

 

[olley]

So did PestFix supply the correct goods on time or not ?

Are you sure £155m has actually been paid to Ayanda Capital, if so how do you know ?

The story behind Ayanda was reported on tv the other night, they interviewed a guy from there, he said all the items were delivered and he showed one of the masks, which he said were proper FFP3 and they looked like proper masks not the bit of cloth over your face type, he said the NHS refused them because the strap didn't meet some NHS spec.

 

[Minxy]

Apart from the tenners, our local pub, all above board according to the rules, has had 30,000 handout, all the staff bar one are family, all drawing furlough, had a rates and vat holiday, not had to do a stroke of work, no electric bill, no cleaners, no nothing, just sit back and make more doing nothing, than they ever did working for it, and we are supposed to have sympathy for them.
Plus the money isn't going round anywhere, but straight in the bank, so missing out all your other trades.

What you're missing though is that the VAT and rates holidays are just a way to defer the cost, it is still payable with interest, also they still have to pay insurance, utilities etc even at a basic level. They may be putting the dosh in the bank now but at some point it will have to be paid out to cover the costs which haven't stopped. As for the 'staff' being family members, what's the problem with that,? They are still people who used to work and get a wage but now due to being closed don't get it from takings but from furlough instead, so I don't see how that is wrong?

 

[MITHRANDIR]

The story behind Ayanda was reported on tv the other night, they interviewed a guy from there, he said all the items were delivered and he showed one of the masks, which he said were proper FFP3 and they looked like proper masks not the bit of cloth over your face type, he said the NHS refused them because the strap didn't meet some NHS spec.

Not fit for purpose then, and not up to standard.

 

[Minxy]

The story behind Ayanda was reported on tv the other night, they interviewed a guy from there, he said all the items were delivered and he showed one of the masks, which he said were proper FFP3 and they looked like proper masks not the bit of cloth over your face type, he said the NHS refused them because the strap didn't meet some NHS spec.

Yes the straps were wrong, I can't remember why exactly but in use they wouldn't have held the mask correctly on the face so IMV they were 'faulty' and shouldn't have been paid for assuming whoever gave the go ahead did so correctly. It wouldn't have prevented them being used by others though, just not by front line NHS so I suspect this is what happened and they were used by others.

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