Fiat's New Automatic (9 speed with Torque Converter)

thebriars said:
Thank goodness, the last Bailey caravan I had was not good.
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👍 My point ,as you probably get, was that more and more will indeed be going ford as the Transit gets better suited to the mo ho ‘job’
 
Interesting, The comment re; Auto braking on downgrade, With the R-V, the 3 speed Chevy box (yes that old) needed to be pulled down one, and gave some effect. So it was always down to the Brakes, I learned early to cadence brake, let it run, brake hard come of and let it run. Never Boiled the fluid, Well did once, another story, But always changed it every 2 year (or less). Brought it over the top from Spain in May with a 15ft trailer on the hook with a Car on, without issue. I used the same technique crossing the Great Divide, 3 times.
 
Rodneyplonker said:
Nicholsong.

Not sure about the old Fiat Comfort Matic box but I think with the new 9 speed ZF version You can nudge the stick forwards or backwards to drop or go up gears in order to decend or ascend hills... As required.
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you can with the comfortmatic as well, you can either flick it up/down when it auto or drive it manually, I quite like it tbh but don't deny i'd like the 9 speed ZF box. I've had my 180bhp tag Comanche chipped to 210bhp, don't see any fuel increase but the torque is noticeably better especially going up long hills, its definitely holds the gears longer and doesn't lose revs like it used to.

it has the factory fitted "up" hill ascent button as well but don't seem to need it since having it chipped but I will be giving it a bash when travelling to Spain in Sept ;)

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Cheshirecat57 said:
👍 My point ,as you probably get, was that more and more will indeed be going ford as the Transit gets better suited to the mo ho ‘job’
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I think you are right. Trigano, makers of Chausson and Benimar to name but a couple of names have used their huge buying power to get a really good deal it would appear with Ford. The 170bhp engine, lots of goodies like stop-start, heated windscreen, lights that follow round corners, and above all a 5 year Ford warranty. It also has a higher rear axle loading than the Fiat.
 
thebriars said:
I think you are right. Trigano, makers of Chausson and Benimar to name but a couple of names have used their huge buying power to get a really good deal it would appear with Ford. The 170bhp engine, lots of goodies like stop-start, heated windscreen, lights that follow round corners, and above all a 5 year Ford warranty. It also has a higher rear axle loading than the Fiat.
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Not to mention that both engine upgrade & gearbox selection are far cheaper too.
 
Jonno1103 said:
Not to mention that both engine upgrade & gearbox selection are far cheaper too.
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No engine upgrade, the 170bhp is standard, certainly for the Benimars. Also the auto box is the only upgrade they do! No habitation upgrade packs.
 
thebriars said:
No engine upgrade, the 170bhp is standard, certainly for the Benimars. Also the auto box is the only upgrade they do! No habitation upgrade packs.
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It's because the Tessoro is imported specifically as a dealer special for Marquis and is specced in a similar way to the their dealer special Mileo & Elddis vans. In essence they come with 99% of Benimar's Sport pack, the only difference is the standard auto box.
In Europe the Transit based MoHo's are 130 as standard and don't have the same standard kit although the Tessy's all have rear reversing sensors as standard and all Transits come with cruise control as standard on all trim levels

The Mk8 facelift Ford 'auto pack' now comes with auto wipers and a heated windscreen option, the former is why the current Remis cab blinds can't be fitted - there's a big lump of plastic behind the rear view mirror. I'm not bothered about auto wipers and pulling the sensor is easy enough, if I can realistically remove the cowling I'll retro fit the blinds.

UK specced Tessy's are a class product and now out sell the Mileo, we spent a lot of time looking at the 463 but opted for the new Tribute F70 due to payload and we didn't want the extra beds. fully loaded they are around £10k cheaper and come in a choice of colours... would have liked a microwave though.

It's a small world as all Benimar, Roller Team & Chausson van conversions are built by Auto Trail in Grimsby and Mobilivetta A class vans are built by Roller Team in Tuscany.
 
Jonno1103 said:
It's because the Tessoro is imported specifically as a dealer special for Marquis and is specced in a similar way to the their dealer special Mileo & Elddis vans. In essence they come with 99% of Benimar's Sport pack, the only difference is the standard auto box.
In Europe the Transit based MoHo's are 130 as standard and don't have the same standard kit although the Tessy's all have rear reversing sensors as standard and all Transits come with cruise control as standard on all trim levels

The Mk8 facelift Ford 'auto pack' now comes with auto wipers and a heated windscreen option, the former is why the current Remis cab blinds can't be fitted - there's a big lump of plastic behind the rear view mirror. I'm not bothered about auto wipers and pulling the sensor is easy enough, if I can realistically remove the cowling I'll retro fit the blinds.

UK specced Tessy's are a class product and now out sell the Mileo, we spent a lot of time looking at the 463 but opted for the new Tribute F70 due to payload and we didn't want the extra beds. fully loaded they are around £10k cheaper and come in a choice of colours... would have liked a microwave though.

It's a small world as all Benimar, Roller Team & Chausson van conversions are built by Auto Trail in Grimsby and Mobilivetta A class vans are built by Roller Team in Tuscany.
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Our Mk8 Ford has auto wipers and Remis blinds.

The auto box is not standard but an option.

Trigano own Marquis, Benimar, Roller Team, Chausson, Mobilvetta, McLouis, Elnagh and Auto Trail, so not really a small world.

Out of 5 new caravans we bought, a Trigano was the only one which did not have to have a major repair within the first year. Indeed it lasted the 5 years we had it without any major faults or any damp.

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thebriars said:
Our Mk8 Ford has auto wipers and Remis blinds.

Trigano own Marquis, Benimar, Roller Team, Chausson, Mobilvetta, McLouis, Elnagh and Auto Trail, so not really a small world.

Out of 5 new caravans we bought, a Trigano was the only one which did not have to have a major repair within the first year. Indeed it lasted the 5 years we had it without any major faults or any damp.
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That's interesting about the wipers, do you have a bulky plastic cowling behind your rear view mirror. The 2019 facelift does and Remis say the cassette blinds can't be fitted to Fords with rain sensing wipers on 2014 models onwards, not even Chausson's platinum vans have them plus i don't think 2020 Tessy's have them either?

By small world I meant regarding how some will by a certain brand but not others.
 
Yes I have the plastic cowl. The blinds are shaped to fit round them in a sort of "Y". Can't see why the 2020 Tessoros don't. Mine is 2019. Could be another make though. See here, part way down the web page:

Transit NB: The Remis instructions are the originals and may say 'cannot be fitted to rain sensor models'. But when available we do supply rain sensor versions and feedback from customers fitting these says (re the instructions only) "the only alteration appears to be the position of the screen centre supports".

http://www.motorcaravanning.co.uk/shopuk/remi_blinds.htm

Ah I understand what you mean about a small world.
 
thebriars said:
Yes I have the plastic cowl. The blinds are shaped to fit round them in a sort of "Y". Can't see why the 2020 Tessoros don't. Mine is 2019. Could be another make though. See here, part way down the web page:

Transit NB: The Remis instructions are the originals and may say 'cannot be fitted to rain sensor models'. But when available we do supply rain sensor versions and feedback from customers fitting these says (re the instructions only) "the only alteration appears to be the position of the screen centre supports".

http://www.motorcaravanning.co.uk/shopuk/remi_blinds.htm

Ah I understand what you mean about a small world.
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Aha! I missed that, I'll email them about availability.
I've finally had decent feedback from a fellow Transit based motorhome owner, thanks it's appreciated.
 
Jonno1103 said:
Aha! I missed that, I'll email them about availability.
I've finally had decent feedback from a fellow Transit based motorhome owner, thanks it's appreciated.
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You're welcome. BTW, they are fitted to 2020 model Benimars with the Ford chassis, however there has been a shortage of them and dealers have been fitting them after delivery.
 
Jonno1103 said:
I'm not that impressed with the new PSA or Fiat Euro 6.2 engines. The torque in them is disappointing especially if you're planning to drive a 7-8m motorhome weighing more than 3500 kg. The Pug 140/340nm and the Fiat 140/350nm will struggle and fully laden will pull away from a junction like a Morris Minor and be honest, the cabs are pretty outdated.

It's the reason why this time we've opted for the Ford, far comfier driving, a cab which offers modern tech, a more intuitive dashboard and the standard 130 engine has more pull than the 160 offering from Fiat.
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does everything I need on a 5.99m, 3500kg vehicle (y)

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Jonno 1103

I'm interested to know if you actually test drove an actual Fiat based 140hp version with the ZF 9 speed auto? Or is it an assumption based on torque? I would be interested in a fair review of actual real world experience because I'm interested in that vehicle... not just speculation! It seems incredible that a new engine/gearbox arrangement would be released if it drove like a Morris Minor!
 
Yes I drove a Auto Trail Tracker, the engine is quite revvy and noisy until you get into gears 7, 8 & 9 and in terms of speed accelerated no better than the older 130 comfortmatic on a 3500kg empty van, a set up which also struggled on loaded vans over 4000kg. I took it for a spin from the dealers and around two roundabouts.

The ford 130 was noticeably quieter on acceleration and reached the speed limit of 60 sooner.

I stand by what I said, the 140 whether it's auto or manual will struggle fitted to a multi passenger carrying loaded van over 3.5t just as the older 130 did.

I suppose the biggest obstacle will be the cost to up grade, if you want a more poerful engine and the 9 speed ZF, the combination is nearly £5000, far more expensive than the 170 & 6 speed selectshift combination on the Ford which is less than £3k
 
nicholsong said:
A supplementary question; how much braking effect would an automatic have on descent of the Selvio Pass? Would one have to manually select lower gears?
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most modern torque converter auto boxes have automatic change down on steep descents. as you brake & slow the box changes down & stays there.
 
Jonno1103's report is consistent with the one I read in Pro Mobil. They wrote the 120 is surprinsingly good but the 140 does not hold a candle to the previous 130.
 
Rodneyplonker said:
So, there is no difference between a 130hp engine and a 140hp engine then? I wonder if Fiat are aware of that?
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There is a difference, the 140 has 30Nm (350) more torque but needs to be doing 2500rpm to release it... The 9 ZF speed box is designed to keep the revs low as the comfortmatic can't cope. The older Iveco multijet II 130 with 3 less gears in the comfortmatic maintained 320Nm at 1800 rpm.

The 6D TEMP engines have to do more work.

The 140 and even the 120 are great for PVC's and low profiles upto 3500kg but will be working just as hard, if not harder to drag along 4250kg+ laden van. The cost option for the 160 ps is the more viable choice for the MoHo's available to those with C1 but you still need to have the revs high to release the 380 Nm. The only realistic choice for the C1 vans is their 180 but...

The new 180 has the same power as the 6B but coupled with the 9 speed torque converter box enjoys 50Nm more than the manual.

Of their class the SEVEL platforms aren't the market leaders, not by a long way, they've just enjoyed the lions share of the converters & coachbuilders focus due to availability (ask why that is as they don't build in the same volume?) and they were the first to produce a motorhome specific chassis.

The Renault's plus the derivatives by Nissan & GM and the Fords have been the better van in terms of driver experience, load & power for over ten years and now that Ford have spent a huge sum in order to make their door locks secure and produce a motorhome specific chassis too I'd expect to see a lot more coachbuilders and converters use them as the cab habitation accessories (Remis blinds etc) become more mainstream.

The Ford chassis and cab is now also lighter than the SEVEL van.

The 130 2.0 litre engine produces 385 Nm (which is more than the Fiat 160) at less than 2000 rpm and the 170 will give you 405 Nm at a shade under 2000 rpm too. The 2.0 litre 170 is also the same weight. Even Fords 105 ps (360Nm) TDCi will pull you along better than Fiats 140 and doesn't need a 9 speed torque converter ZF as the auto option to do it.

For those who dismiss torque? It's the only reason diesel engines exist as they are all about what they can pull.
 
I had a 130bhp comformatic on a light chassis. I found the auto quirky. It was often in wrong gear, revved greatly on hills and decents, and drove me mad switching constantly between 5th and 6th on motorway cruising. The 130bhp was underpowered and I doubt the van was ever over 3200kg fully laden. On rough ground it was very juddery.
I have done a few hundred miles now in my new 140bhp zf9 maxi chassis and the ride, power and smoothness is much improved. I can't compare to the ford offering but for me it is a worthy upgrade and a pleasant driving experience. The auto is buttery smooth. I am not a fast driver but for me the power is a marked improvement and unladen weight is around 400kg more. The ride on the maxi chassis is far better and very noticeably better on particularly bad ground.
 
I run the 130 with a Comfortmatic at 4250 and to be honest it’s fine.
It’s still a bit tight yet as it hasn’t done 4000 miles so it should get even better and hopefully better fuel too, which isn’t bad either at around 26mpg at the moment.
I find it’s got more than enough power, even around the Alps.
 
76zedfour said:
I had a 130bhp comformatic on a light chassis. I found the auto quirky. It was often in wrong gear, revved greatly on hills and decents, and drove me mad switching constantly between 5th and 6th on motorway cruising. The 130bhp was underpowered and I doubt the van was ever over 3200kg fully laden. On rough ground it was very juddery.
I have done a few hundred miles now in my new 140bhp zf9 maxi chassis and the ride, power and smoothness is much improved. I can't compare to the ford offering but for me it is a worthy upgrade and a pleasant driving experience. The auto is buttery smooth. I am not a fast driver but for me the power is a marked improvement and unladen weight is around 400kg more. The ride on the maxi chassis is far better and very noticeably better on particularly bad ground.
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Hi 76 Zedfour, I’ve ordered new van with automatic 160bhp, I have vw automatic now for work and that is brilliant automatic . Good to know your enjoying the new automatic. Regards Danny

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Hi,
I’m thinking about the spec I’d need for a new 5.4m PVC. I definitely want an automatic. It sounds as if the 140 bhp engine should have sufficient performance for this size of van. However after reading the horror stories about people cooking brakes on these vans going downhill, I am wondering whether the 9 speed torque converter auto would be able to hold the van in a low gear to prevent this occurring, is there anyone out there with the experience of this gearbox who can tell me? If not, would it be necessary to specify the hill descent control option? I‘ve only previously seen this specified on SUVs to creep down steep hills off-road, but in this instance is it actually designed to mitigate this issue?
 
Malcyb said:
after reading the horror stories about people cooking brakes on these vans going downhill
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Going down a high mountain pass on brakes will cook them on any commercial vehicle.

Malcyb said:
I am wondering whether the 9 speed torque converter auto would be able to hold the van in a low gear to prevent this occurring
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Any automatic gearbox I have used (AISIN in a Ford S-Max, Mercedes 7G in a GLK and now Sprinter, VW DSG in a Golf, 7 speed double clutch in a Huyndai Tucson, S-Tronic in Audi A6) allows the driver to manually lock a low gear to go down on the engine. The ZF auto gearbox that Fiat now uses in the Ducato is the same one Mercedes mounts in the front wheel drive Sprinter, renaming it 9G. Those gearboxes work like the others, they allow you to lock a lower gear to go downhill.

Malcyb said:
If not, would it be necessary to specify the hill descent control option?
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Hill descent control uses the brakes, not helpful on long downhill roads.
 
StephDeLux said:
Going down a high mountain pass on brakes will cook them on any commercial vehicle.



Any automatic gearbox I have used (AISIN in a Ford S-Max, Mercedes 7G in a GLK and now Sprinter, VW DSG in a Golf, 7 speed double clutch in a Huyndai Tucson, S-Tronic in Audi A6) allows the driver to manually lock a low gear to go down on the engine. The ZF auto gearbox that Fiat now uses in the Ducato is the same one Mercedes mounts in the front wheel drive Sprinter, renaming it 9G. Those gearboxes work like the others, they allow you to lock a lower gear to go downhill.



Hill descent control uses the brakes, not helpful on long downhill roads.
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Thanks, that sounds very promising. Wasn’t meaning to imply that this was a specific issue with this model, just want to ensure this gearbox would allow me to avoid it, and want to be 100% sure as I doubt I’d get the chance to prove it for myself before purchase. Doesn’t sound like the hill descent control will be a particularly useful feature on a van not designed to go seriously off-road.
 
Malcyb said:
Doesn’t sound like the hill descent control will be a particularly useful feature on a van not designed to go seriously off-road.
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Well, if it is in a pack with Traction+ then I'd take it. I think Traction+ is a big plus on a Ducato.

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