Fiat's New Automatic (9 speed with Torque Converter)

Back in the day we had Mercedes Sprinter 2.7s with the Sprintshift (similar to comfortmatic)gearbox which I quite liked but, there was an issue with the auto mode when driving hard as we often were.
It would decide to change gear mid corner under power when grip was essential & gravity reared its ugly head, this was closely followed by the vehicle swapping ends surprising the crap out of the unwary, I was passenger in one which pulled this stunt, 5 tonnes of Mercedes getting very friendly with the scenery, change nappy & carry on.
 
mikeandmary said:
I wonder if this might include Peugeot on their conversions.
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I doubt it as both Citroen and Peugeot use a different engine. The PSA Blue HDi engines have been used with their own auto box for years in their large people carriers, you'd have expected them to fit them to vans by now.

It wasn't that long ago, Euro 5 I think, when the Peugeot Boxer used the same engine as the Transit. Again Ford offered their auto box with it, the first for many years but Peugeot didn't.

If you want an Auto Sleeper or top end Elddis with an auto box, they build them on Ducato bases.

I've never really understood why some converters only choose base vehicles with a manual only option, I have a feeling that Bailey would sell more.
 
Jonno1103 said:
I doubt it as both Citroen and Peugeot use a different engine. The PSA Blue HDi engines have been used with their own auto box for years in their large people carriers, you'd have expected them to fit them to vans by now.

It wasn't that long ago, Euro 5 I think, when the Peugeot Boxer used the same engine as the Transit. Again Ford offered their auto box with it, the first for many years but Peugeot didn't.

If you want an Auto Sleeper or top end Elddis with an auto box, they build them on Ducato bases.

I've never really understood why some converters only choose base vehicles with a manual only option, I have a feeling that Bailey would sell more.
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This has always been a puzzle to me - why don't Peugeot and Citroen get their act together and offer an auto option? Why only Fiat?

And, as you say, Bailey and others must be missing out on sales. I think the British converters get Peugeot bases at a better price than the Fiat Ducato - but these days, with MHs with auto boxes increasing in popularity, it seems short-sighted.
 
We have had a comfortmatic for about 6 years driven equally by Jan and I. mostly in the UK and Spain, we have done over 40,000 milers without problems, 68000 from new. We love it and find that it is easy but of course has some peculiarities; as there is no torque converter just a robotic clutch be careful creeping as your clutch will be slipping, also it can roll back which a standard auto can't. Ours is in a Ducato Major with the 3 litre engine, sadly not made anymore. I feel that the small engines have to work too hard and break when safely out of warranty! Sure the electronic brain is complicated but so is a lot of modern electronics, when did your mobile phone last break down without rough treatment.
For some reason they were not liked by journos or salesmen, neither group noted for their veracity or technical ability and mud sticks. I would have one again, way better than a manual especially in a heavy vehicle in foreign parts when lost, as you must be in the right gear every time.
We are approaching the end of our motorhoming and will not change it now, also the old Adria has a lot of extras/ goodies, so my advice is maximise on the journo/sales BS and buy one now at a good reduction! Buck the trend.

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JustifiedAncient said:
We've had ours since mid-December on our WildAx Solaris XL. Done over 600 miles so far and very pleased. Makes driving in urban areas so much more pleasant. I have no experience of the older Comfortmatic, but I can say that it drives like a traditional automatic. We have it on the 140bhp engine and I would say that it is only just satisfactory on that power level in 'normal' mode. You can switch to 'power' mode but I usually forget to do that.
If you can get it on a 160 or 180bhp engine that would be ideal, but I think fuel economy would be worse.
We didn't even order an automatic, but because there was a shortage of vans with manual transmission in the Autumn we were offered a free upgrade to the new 9-speed auto, which we were delighted to accept. It kinda took the sting out of the RFL increase that came in on 1st Sept.
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Thank you for giving us the benefit of your most useful first hand experience. I've had a few Auto cars with Torque Converters (Chevy Caprice, Pontiac Nova, Jag XJ) and they have always been more controllable when manoeuvring at low speed with no jerkiness. Others I've had such as the variable belt (old Fiesta) and robotised (current Smart car) have not been so good, so I've avoided the Ducato robotised box, however I'm now convinced it's the right time to change to an Auto with the Torque Converter gearbox. Pity there are no MH to suit me on the Ford chassis so I'll have to stick with Fiat.
Thank you everyone for all your comments.
 
Manxcat said:
I've just bought one with the old gearbox. Hope I don't regret it.
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Me too?‍♂️???

it’s like being at work driving old Caterpillar power shift transmissions, kinda nice once you get used to it.???
 
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I was always of the old-school opinion that the only decent gearbox was manual. That was probably true when I started driving in the 70s.

My opinion was changed after driving in harsh winters in North America in the 80s and 90s, when the local vehicles, which invariably had automatic gearboxes, all behaved impeccably whatever the conditions which included very significant snow and ice.

Then, back in the UK I was spending 4-6 hours a day on the stop-start M25. So thought an automatic might be slightly less aggravating. I bought a Citroen C5 (wanted an estate with a big cargo area). The auto gearbox was OK, until it started conking out randomly on uphill stretches.

It was replaced with a Skoda Octavia estate with a DSG auto gearbox and, wow, what a revelation the VAG box was.

More recently I had an Audi A3 Quattro (170BHP) with a DSG gearbox which was an absolute dream to drive.

So I know what to expect from a decent automatic gearbox.

Our motorhome base vehicle is a Renault Master with a robotised gearbox. It is nowhere near as good as the quality DSG boxes I have known. But I still regard it as a useful tool and after a while you learn to live with the lag.

Hopefully the new ZF gearbox will close the gap somewhat.

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Manxcat said:
Well, had a test drive. The salesman gave a good demo and explained it well. I've also watched a good training video.

Quite honestly I liked what I have seen, and I'm looking forward to it.
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Us too. Took delivery in December. Seems fine to me.
 
MyrtleGuru said:
I was always of the old-school opinion that the only decent gearbox was manual. That was probably true when I started driving in the 70s.

My opinion was changed after driving in harsh winters in North America in the 80s and 90s, when the local vehicles, which invariably had automatic gearboxes, all behaved impeccably whatever the conditions which included very significant snow and ice.

Then, back in the UK I was spending 4-6 hours a day on the stop-start M25. So thought an automatic might be slightly less aggravating. I bought a Citroen C5 (wanted an estate with a big cargo area). The auto gearbox was OK, until it started conking out randomly on uphill stretches.

It was replaced with a Skoda Octavia estate with a DSG auto gearbox and, wow, what a revelation the VAG box was.

More recently I had an Audi A3 Quattro (170BHP) with a DSG gearbox which was an absolute dream to drive.

So I know what to expect from a decent automatic gearbox.

Our motorhome base vehicle is a Renault Master with a robotised gearbox. It is nowhere near as good as the quality DSG boxes I have known. But I still regard it as a useful tool and after a while you learn to live with the lag.

Hopefully the new ZF gearbox will close the gap somewhat.
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DSG gearboxes are closer to the Comfortmatic than the torque converter gearbox this thread is about. The difference between a DSG and a Comfortmatic is the former has two clutches which makes for faster gear changes. Gear changes on the 9 speed auto should (hopefully) be almost imperceptible. :)
 
DBK said:
DSG gearboxes are closer to the Comfortmatic than the torque converter gearbox
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I beg to differ. The DSG is close to neither. The architecture and the way of changing gears in a DSG has really no relation whatsoever with what happens in a Comfortmatic.

The Comfortmatic is really a manual gearbox with a manual clutch surrounded by hydraulic actuators that replicate what a human would do to change the gears. The result, while at least as fast as human would be, feels quite slow.

The DSG operates totally differently and the changes are lightning fast, most often imperceptible. The DSG is the result of Porsche research for the PDK which is explained here:

 
Stephane Bosman said:
I beg to differ. The DSG is close to neither. The architecture and the way of changing gears in a DSG has really no relation whatsoever with what happens in a Comfortmatic.

The Comfortmatic is really a manual gearbox with a manual clutch surrounded by hydraulic actuators that replicate what a human would do to change the gears. The result, while at least as fast as human would be, feels quite slow.

The DSG operates totally differently and the changes are lightning fast, most often imperceptible. The DSG is the result of Porsche research for the PDK which is explained here:

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A DSG is effectively two Comfortmatics, one doing gears 1, 3 and 5 the other doing 2, 4 and 6. The two clutches decide which gearbox is connected to the engine. Mechanically both a Comfortmatic and a DSG are very similar although obviously arranged very differently. The new 9 speed gearbox is very different with little in common with either. :)
 
It’s all getting too complicated for my tiny brain. Think I’ll stick to the derailleur on my push bike, then again they’ve now complicated that with electric shifters :-(

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Ahh! Ye cannae whack an old Wilson pre select gearbox!! Those were the days ( my friend?)

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mikeandmary said:
I wonder if this might include Peugeot on their conversions.
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Peugeot uses their own engines and gear boxes. There is a reason the Peugeot and Citroën versions are less expensive then the Fiat while being made in the same factory. Fiat uses Iveco engines and manual gear boxes, pretty high-end stuff, but expensive.
 
ambulancekidd said:
Back in the day we had Mercedes Sprinter 2.7s with the Sprintshift (similar to comfortmatic)gearbox which I quite liked but, there was an issue with the auto mode when driving hard as we often were.
It would decide to change gear mid corner under power when grip was essential & gravity reared its ugly head, this was closely followed by the vehicle swapping ends surprising the crap out of the unwary, I was passenger in one which pulled this stunt, 5 tonnes of Mercedes getting very friendly with the scenery, change nappy & carry on.
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Couldn't they be held in gear when necessary? On our advanced driving courses with auto boxes we were taught to manually select and hold an appropriate gear for cornering and other conditions when it was necessary to prevent the box making its own (less optimal and possibly dangerous) decisions.

I loved the Vauxhall Senator B, 0-90 mph-ish when manually held in D2. Fantastic for response driving in town, pursuits and ambulance or wide load escorts (y)
 
Deneb said:
Couldn't they be held in gear when necessary? On our advanced driving courses with auto boxes we were taught to manually select and hold an appropriate gear for cornering and other conditions when it was necessary to prevent the box making its own (less optimal and possibly dangerous) decisions.

I loved the Vauxhall Senator B, 0-90 mph-ish when manually held in D2. Fantastic for response driving in town, pursuits and ambulance or wide load escorts (y)
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We didn't do any training on automatics of any description but, as the Scottish Ambulance Service moved on, driver training was never refreshed.
The Sprintshift vehicles arrived & were literally thrown at the crews.

One of my mates who was a traffic officer described the Senator as "your favourite armchair with a rocket at the back".
 
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I guess it is similar to the 8 speed ZF gearbox in my Iveco base vehicle. Hardly ever notice a gear change. Great but of kit. I think it is fitted in the Range Rover

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ambulancekidd said:
We didn't do any training on automatics of any description but, as the Scottish Ambulance Service moved on, driver training was never refreshed.
The Sprintshift vehicles arrived & were literally thrown at the crews.
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Crikey. Imagine the repercussions today if the vehicle was involved in a serious collision whilst on a response call, and the driver said, "I wasn't trained in that". :oops:

One of my mates who was a traffic officer described the Senator as "your favourite armchair with a rocket at the back".
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Yes, sums it up nicely :smiley:
 
Probably the best thing that could have been added to the new Ducato.

Ive ran many Mercedes Sprinter Vans and Motorhomes. As Mercedes and VW have decided to supply SWB vans in FWD only. Now I would choose a Fiat.
 
I think the Ducato is in need of modernisation. The dashboard is from another time, the crash test videos we can find coming from Nordic countries are atrocious, sound proofing is decidedly 20th century. Those are starting to weight down and counter-balance the lure of the wide and short cabin. Not sure they can keep it as short and making it safer, though.

I'd say the ZF gearbox is most welcome because the Comfortmatic was really an embarrassment in my not universally shared opinion :)
 

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