Fiat's New Automatic (9 speed with Torque Converter)

2dandaddy said:
Mmmh! Nexus hub! On a Raleigh Motus Grand Tourer! Feeling quite giddy!!! Braw bikes though! Almost makes cycling pleasurable!
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The touring bike I sold just before lockdown had a 14 speed Rohloff hub. Amazing bit of German engineering. ?

The guy who bought it was going to cycle from Alaska to Tierra del Fuego starting this August. Plans probably on hold. ☹
 
I had my new CV20 delivered just on shutdown so it’s been sat at work waiting for hand controls to be fitted, they were done last week and I’ve done about 50 miles locally and I think it’s a great improvement over comfortmatic. This is my second CV20, last one was comfortmatic.
the new auto Is more suited to hand controls, whereas the previous one wasn’t, also, base engine for auto is now 140 instead of the 130, and I feel it does make quite a difference to the performance. I’ve only tried it locally but have included all types of road including country, motorway and some steep local twisty roads.
I can say that I am suitably impressed by performance and drive ability so far.
I am co-owner of a Land Rover service/repair garage so have seen plenty ZF boxes and am pleased Fiat have chosen to go this route ??
 
G30rge said:
I had my new CV20 delivered just on shutdown so it’s been sat at work waiting for hand controls to be fitted, they were done last week and I’ve done about 50 miles locally and I think it’s a great improvement over comfortmatic. This is my second CV20, last one was comfortmatic.
the new auto Is more suited to hand controls, whereas the previous one wasn’t, also, base engine for auto is now 140 instead of the 130, and I feel it does make quite a difference to the performance. I’ve only tried it locally but have included all types of road including country, motorway and some steep local twisty roads.
I can say that I am suitably impressed by performance and drive ability so far.
I am co-owner of a Land Rover service/repair garage so have seen plenty ZF boxes and am pleased Fiat have chosen to go this route ??
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I'm not that impressed with the new PSA or Fiat Euro 6.2 engines. The torque in them is disappointing especially if you're planning to drive a 7-8m motorhome weighing more than 3500 kg. The Pug 140/340nm and the Fiat 140/350nm will struggle and fully laden will pull away from a junction like a Morris Minor and be honest, the cabs are pretty outdated.

It's the reason why this time we've opted for the Ford, far comfier driving, a cab which offers modern tech, a more intuitive dashboard and the standard 130 engine has more pull than the 160 offering from Fiat.
 
Rob Turner said:
I’ve got the 130 Fiat with comfortmatic running at 4.5t and it’s absolutely fine.
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We had the 130 comfortmatic in a 2012 Tracker and it slowed markedly going up hill on a motorway.
 
2dandaddy said:
Ahh! Ye cannae whack an old Wilson pre select gearbox!! Those were the days ( my friend?)
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Where thay the one`s fitted to some Buses?.
ceejayt said:
I guess it is similar to the 8 speed ZF gearbox in my Iveco base vehicle. Hardly ever notice a gear change. Great but of kit. I think it is fitted in the Range Rover
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The 9 speed has allegedly been the gearbox in the Vogue since 2013?. Introduced at That years Geneva Motor Show.

There was some issues in the early days. allegedly software?.
 
Had to use the hill button the other day for the first time. Should be renamed "Sport Mode".

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Jonno1103.
"It's the reason why this time we've opted for the Ford, far comfier driving, a cab which offers modern tech, a more intuitive dashboard and the standard 130 engine has more pull than the 160 offering from Fiat."

I agree that the cab on the Fiat is not as stylish as the Ford one and is in need of a redesign. We have always had A class vans so this is new for us. We looked at the Fords for the last 18 months but decided to stay with the Fiat based van in the end.

I was wondering if you (or anyone) had any torque figures for the Ford 130hp and the Fiat 160hp for comparison?
i realise that real world figures don't always correspond to paper ones but, when I had my last Fiat chipped from 130hp to 160hp, the difference was quite noticeable. It would be interesting to see if the torque figures of the Ford 130hp correspond to the same torque of the Fiat 160hp?
i'm no mechanic, I should state but, I can't get my head around why different engine manufacturers torque figures don't translate to the same output. Would it be gearing?
I don't envisage any situations where I would want to tear away from a junction in a Motorhome anyway although, I sometimes do with my car but we don't feel the same need to rush to get anywhere in a Motorhome - unlike every day car driving.

Our new van is plated at 4.25t but is only 6.89m long. We downsized because we camp differently now and can't see the sense in having a long bedroom sticking out the back just to sleep in and we don't need such a large garage now. Horses for courses?
 
Jonno1103 said:
We had the 130 comfortmatic in a 2012 Tracker and it slowed markedly going up hill on a motorway.
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This is my second 130, the first being at 3500 and a manual.
No problems in the alps, there’s plenty of power, maybe it’s the way I run them in, I don’t know but it’s more than enough.
 
Yes, running in is very important, I would say! There are some who disagree but, why would anyone knowingly thrash a new engine? I ran my own trucks for many years and would still spend as long as it took to run them in.
 
Rodneyplonker said:
Yes, running in is very important, I would say! There are some who disagree but, why would anyone knowingly thrash a new engine? I ran my own trucks for many years and would still spend as long as it took to run them in.
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I used to drive a few years ago when 400hp was a massive truck. I had a Merc for Italy once, a 44, i was king of the road 😂😂.
Today, unless they’ve got 500+ hp and a massive cab they won’t have a night out in the UK 😂😂
I too always ran them in and never had a problem.
I had a F12 305 that would out pull most of today’s trucks. Then my last was a F12 405. Good times, couldn’t do it now though.

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Rob Turner said:
This is my second 130, the first being at 3500 and a manual.
No problems in the alps, there’s plenty of power, maybe it’s the way I run them in, I don’t know but it’s more than enough.
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My local garage owner said to that the Fiat engines aren't run in until around 15k miles, I wonder how many motorhomes reach this having a single owner? The 2012 Tracker had 9000 on it when we bought it in 2017 and had twice that when we sold it last October. The Pegaso 590 we replaced it with has/had the 150 engine and with the A class being lighter proved to be an instant improvement... They're a lovely little van, well made too, alas we haven't got on with the roof bed.

There is always a 5% difference between actual speed and what the speedometer indicates so I'd assume we all tend to travel between 55 -65 mph, could this be classed as thrashing?

Fiat also say that the engines don't need running in as it's done in the factory although they recommend still keeping the revs low for the first couple of hundred miles.
 
Rodneyplonker said:
Is the roof bed you mentioned a pull down one over the driver and passenger seats?
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Yes it is. Nothing wrong with it, it's particularly sturdy with a 260kg load limit and very comfy. The problem we have is that I struggle getting in and out due to severe psoriatic arthropathy and the missus has to climb over me which is akin to tackling K2!

Shame really as it's a lovely van, only a year old and will soon be gracing Brownhills forecourt complete with Mifi, awning, back box and other goodies.
 
I know sweet FA about automatics, even the vocabulary is new to me.

Early in this thread I asked where is the best place to learn the subject. Can one of you boffins now answer the request, please.

A supplementary question; how much braking effect would an automatic have on descent of the Selvio Pass? Would one have to manually select lower gears?

Geoff
 
We've had two Hymers with that arrangement. Very comfy but can be a bit awkward for the person sleeping on the inside particularly, to get in and out... especially if you have mobility issues... which we, fortunately, do not.
We have now changed to an electric drop down bed that drops down to seat level - or anywhere in between! Our reasons for doing so we're different to yours however. We couldn't see the point In having a Long van - just to accommodate either a queen bed or twin ones.... which is what we had plus the pull down up front. It was ok when we took some of our grandchildren away but, these days there are just two of us. We wanted to downsize a bit but retain a reasonable garage and the drop down electric layout suited our needs. We also like the open plan feel of the van. We were a bit tired of the usual "Euro" type lounge seating arrangement with Kitchen, toilet and shower amidships...followed by the rear bedroom. We loved all of them at the time but... moving into a different era now! We've even gone for the new 9 speed gearbox which, as an ex trucker I would not have contemplated in earlier times. 🤭

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Nicholsong.

Not sure about the old Fiat Comfort Matic box but I think with the new 9 speed ZF version You can nudge the stick forwards or backwards to drop or go up gears in order to decend or ascend hills... As required.
 
Jonno1103 said:
My local garage owner said to that the Fiat engines aren't run in until around 15k miles, I wonder how many motorhomes reach this having a single owner?
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Yep that is correct, the software on the Comformatic box is set up to work with a fully run in engine., i.e. 15,000 miles.
I have noticed the Euro 6 engine takes longer to get to it's best performance than the Euro 5 did. Mine got a lot better after 10,000 and now running well at 25,000 miles. Mines 3 years old but milage is obviously down at the moment.
 
Rodneyplonker said:
Jonno1103.
"It's the reason why this time we've opted for the Ford, far comfier driving, a cab which offers modern tech, a more intuitive dashboard and the standard 130 engine has more pull than the 160 offering from Fiat."

I agree that the cab on the Fiat is not as stylish as the Ford one and is in need of a redesign. We have always had A class vans so this is new for us. We looked at the Fords for the last 18 months but decided to stay with the Fiat based van in the end.

I was wondering if you (or anyone) had any torque figures for the Ford 130hp and the Fiat 160hp for comparison?
Click to expand...

We've got the auto Ford with a 170bhp engine as standard. Not bothered about the torque figures, its superb on hills and on the flat.
 
nicholsong said:
I know sweet FA about automatics, even the vocabulary is new to me.

Early in this thread I asked where is the best place to learn the subject. Can one of you boffins now answer the request, please.

A supplementary question; how much braking effect would an automatic have on descent of the Selvio Pass? Would one have to manually select lower gears?

Geoff
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Can't help with the first bit, but as for ascent / descent, the Comfortmatic is effectively a manual gear box, but effectively a standard manual gearbox is being operated through a hydraulic system of sorts that is changing the gear and operating the clutch when the computer tells it to (based on engine load and revs), or if you are in the semi-automatic mode based on the driver's up / down on the selector knob. You just don't have the clutch pedal. It's why it is "robotised" as motors are moving all the levers somewhere under the engine.

Recent comfortmatic have an "up" hill ascent button. Effectively this alters when the system would try and change gear. The computer leaves changes later so and the engine will have higher revs. At the expense of fuel economy over the standard flat change, this can improve the rate of climb on some gradients, even long ones, where the engine would otherwise be revving too slowly and be losing torque.

Decent's are more interesting. As it is effectively a standard gearbox system, it's just a clutch is operated by machinery, you will get an effect of engine braking. But when I was working my way round some of the NC500 last September, in a then very new to me van, even in manual selection mode, I did find a couple of occasions when the computer seemed to want to protect the revving engine and change the system up. There is a hill descent mode button supposedly to tell it not to change up, but that would only really work when in low gears and if you started to go to fast it wanted to disengage. I found myself still leaning heavily on the brakes every 100 yards or so (preferring that to gentle continuous braking) to keep the speeds down on the tighter roads. It may just be that I hadn't got used to it. and to be honest any heavier vehicle will have a degree of mass that is going to want to accelerate downwards, that you are always going to have to work to control.
 
thebriars said:
We've got the auto Ford with a 170bhp engine as standard. Not bothered about the torque figures, its superb on hills and on the flat.
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I bet it is, the 170 engine is superb. I have a feeling that Ford will begin to appear a lot more now due to the engines, their new motorhome specific chassis, far cheaper base vehicle & the cheaper cost options some of which you don't see on the Fiats or Peugeot's.

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The main concern is boiling your brake fluid if braking too frequently and or, for long periods. When on long steep winding descents I take the opportunity to pull off when available especially if the engine keeps overrunning, to let the brakes cool down. Had car brakes boil once in the Alps many years ago when driving a fully loaded estate car. Thank god, when the Brake pedal went down to the floor we were just levelling out but I still managed to overshoot a crossroads! Two minutes earlier and we would have been toast!
 
Jonno1103 said:
I bet it is, the 170 engine is superb. I have a feeling that Ford will begin to appear a lot more now due to the engines, their new motorhome specific chassis, far cheaper base vehicle & the cheaper cost options some of which you don't see on the Fiats or Peugeot's.
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Haven't seen any A Class vans on a Ford for years. 2nd incarnation of the Hymer Exsis is the last one I can remember that was dropped around 2012.
 
Jonno1103 said:
I bet it is, the 170 engine is superb. I have a feeling that Ford will begin to appear a lot more now due to the engines, their new motorhome specific chassis, far cheaper base vehicle & the cheaper cost options some of which you don't see on the Fiats or Peugeot's.
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Watch out for Bailey ’21 models
 
Kannon Fodda said:
Can't help with the first bit, but as for ascent / descent, the Comfortmatic is effectively a manual gear box, but effectively a standard manual gearbox is being operated through a hydraulic system of sorts that is changing the gear and operating the clutch when the computer tells it to (based on engine load and revs), or if you are in the semi-automatic mode based on the driver's up / down on the selector knob. You just don't have the clutch pedal. It's why it is "robotised" as motors are moving all the levers somewhere under the engine.

Recent comfortmatic have an "up" hill ascent button. Effectively this alters when the system would try and change gear. The computer leaves changes later so and the engine will have higher revs. At the expense of fuel economy over the standard flat change, this can improve the rate of climb on some gradients, even long ones, where the engine would otherwise be revving too slowly and be losing torque.

Decent's are more interesting. As it is effectively a standard gearbox system, it's just a clutch is operated by machinery, you will get an effect of engine braking. But when I was working my way round some of the NC500 last September, in a then very new to me van, even in manual selection mode, I did find a couple of occasions when the computer seemed to want to protect the revving engine and change the system up. There is a hill descent mode button supposedly to tell it not to change up, but that would only really work when in low gears and if you started to go to fast it wanted to disengage. I found myself still leaning heavily on the brakes every 100 yards or so (preferring that to gentle continuous braking) to keep the speeds down on the tighter roads. It may just be that I hadn't got used to it. and to be honest any heavier vehicle will have a degree of mass that is going to want to accelerate downwards, that you are always going to have to work to control.
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This may be true for a Comformatic, but not so for a torque converter. Plenty of engine braking on ours without having to change down manually, except on very steep hills.
 

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