Euro 4 and 5

[ashleyalcaline]

Hello everyone, this question keeps coming up
Just trying to get a general idea of how people are dealing with restriction to anything below euro 6 ? Is this a bigger problem for commercial users ? My current van is only euro 5 but looking at coach conversion which within my budget tends to be euro4 - would appreciate your answers
Regards

 

[nicholsong]

I wouldnt buy Euro6 because I dont want all the electronics and I especially dont want adblue. My motor is Euro3, nice and simple, I dont do Crit Air/ umwelt etc and stay away from places that do.

I am with you jongood

I think that you and Lenny HB and a few others might do a meet-up in some shady glade picked from P4N. Tam Northernraider could be invited.

 

[Lenny HB]

I am with you jongood

I think that you and Lenny HB and a few others might do a meet-up in some shady glade picked from P4N. Tam Northernraider could be invited.

I'd be excluded my van is Euro6.

 

[Northernraider]

Hello everyone, this question keeps coming up
Just trying to get a general idea of how people are dealing with restriction to anything below euro 6 ? Is this a bigger problem for commercial users ? My current van is only euro 5 but looking at coach conversion which within my budget tends to be euro4 - would appreciate your answers
Regards

Planning ahead I've a 1989 mercedes 709d ...6 years time it's excempt from all these restrictions. Added bonus it will also be free from mot and road tax.

If you buy newer you will constantly be forced to buy newer as the craziness grows.

Meanwhile big business is pumping loads of crap in to the air while Joe blogs pays for it

 

[Brains]

In another 19 years - hilarious

err, I presume you realise that a mere 6 years from now all sale of diesel and petrol cars stops ?

The average life of a car is around 20 years.
It means that around 5% of the car fleet is scrapped each year, and 5% of the car fleet is brand new.

The last fossil fuel car to roll of the production lines 2029 will be 10 years old in 2039, half way through its life.

There is expected to be a degree of what is being termed as 'Cubanisation', whereby older fossil fuel cars are kept on the road beyond their normal 'sell by' date, however this will only extend the life, on average, by 2-3 years.

Therefore; it is expected that by 2042, which is as you point out is 19 years from now, fossil fuel cars will be in the minority. As each year passes 5% more of the fossil fuel cars are scrapped to be replaced by EV's.

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[ianp]

Or the current technology of converting diesels to run on hydrogen moves beyond the current 90% hydrogen to diesel ratio of fuel required so we can really make use of that better than 28% increase in efficiency! A plant to produce hydrogen on a commercial basis for fuel use has just been given the go ahead in East Yorkshire and there are plans to introduce 5% hydrogen into the domestic gas network in a couple of years, gradually increasing it until the network supplies hydrogen...... Incidentally I understand that pre E4 engines lend themselves to conversion better than the more complex later models....... more tea vicar?

 

[jongood]

err, I presume you realise that a mere 6 years from now all sale of diesel and petrol cars stops ?

The average life of a car is around 20 years.
It means that around 5% of the car fleet is scrapped each year, and 5% of the car fleet is brand new.

The last fossil fuel car to roll of the production lines 2029 will be 10 years old in 2039, half way through its life.

There is expected to be a degree of what is being termed as 'Cubanisation', whereby older fossil fuel cars are kept on the road beyond their normal 'sell by' date, however this will only extend the life, on average, by 2-3 years.

Therefore; it is expected that by 2042, which is as you point out is 19 years from now, fossil fuel cars will be in the minority. As each year passes 5% more of the fossil fuel cars are scrapped to be replaced by EV's.

In 19 years time I will consider myself very fortunate if I can still get up the steps.

I reckon the older stuff will last much longer than the newer stuff because its so much more fixable and not as finnicky about fuel as the newer stuff ( I can't see them banning chips anytime soon)

On a serious note, IF I have to replace my lovely 7 litre engine, Ive got a massive space to put an alternative powerplant into and another 3 tonnes of design weight to go at.

 

[Northernraider]

There are at this time 3 million historic vehicles registered in the UK, all will still be running on petrol and diesel long after 2030 , and that number will likely increase.

It's madness anyway , the UK is going to be the only country bothering about this as Europe has even more old motors running around than we do.

 

[jongood]

There are at this time 3 million historic vehicles registered in the UK, all will still be running on petrol and diesel long after 2030 , and that number will likely increase.

It's madness anyway , the UK is going to be the only country bothering about this as Europe has even more old motors running around than we do.

Too right! And the older ones only go to Africa and Asia anyway, its the same air thats being polluted.

 

[Northernraider]

Too right! And the older ones only go to Africa and Asia anyway, its the same air thats being polluted.

Aye I mean I've never seen so many old merc vans as I've seen here in Morocco.

I will never believe its more environmentally friendly to dispose of a perfectly good vehicle to make a new one from scratch. Also the amount of plastic in new cars , and the constant having to replace parts in them.

It's clearly driven by money and not the environment.

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[Dazzola]

Part of the problem with newer vehicles is the build quality at the factory, they are now designed to have a life expectancy of only 10 years, yes 10.
This is due to having to produce a recycling policy for every vehicle made, lots of body and chassis parts are now bonded, not welded and the glues start to break down by design, to make recycling easier.

Smaller turbo engines giving lots of power and torque, they meet emissions targets, but are not very long lived.
It's all part of the process.

 

[Northernraider]

Part of the problem with newer vehicles is the build quality at the factory, they are now designed to have a life expectancy of only 10 years, yes 10.
This is due to having to produce a recycling policy for every vehicle made, lots of body and chassis parts are now bonded, not welded and the glues start to break down by design, to make recycling easier.

Smaller turbo engines giving lots of power and torque, they meet emissions targets, but are not very long lived.
It's all part of the process.

Commercialism


That's the process it seems.

 

[jongood]

Aye I mean I've never seen so many old merc vans as I've seen here in Morocco.

I will never believe its more environmentally friendly to dispose of a perfectly good vehicle to make a new one from scratch. Also the amount of plastic in new cars , and the constant having to replace parts in them.

It's clearly driven by money and not the environment.

I reckon it makes more sense to have an exemption for lower milage vehicles. Replacing your average motorhome on environmental grounds, when you factor in the production emissions is never going to make sense.

 

[Dazzola]

Commercialism


That's the process it seems.

Exactly that.
I'm a carbon composites technician and have friends in the motor industry, a few work for a supercar manufacturer, I won't name them but it begins with M and ends with N, you would not believe the build quality of those cars, I've seen underneath one with 35k miles that needed thousands of pounds of repair work, literally disintegrating underneath.

 

[Flightlevel55]

I have a 2015 Peugeot Boxer based Elddis Majestic which does not use Ad Blue. I take it that it's likely to be Euro 5? Is there a way I can find out? Would the V5 tell me anything or the vehicle handbook?

I have a Majestic 125 on a boxer and it’s registered in 2016, is euro 5 and none ad blue. Given they introduced ad blue and euro 6 long before 2016 it just goes to show how long the chasis cabs sit waiting to be built into motorhomes. To be honest when I bought it I went off the reg and assumed euro 6 but soon discovered it wasn’t after i realised the ad blue fill point is just a blank when I went to fill up with diesel.

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[cyberyacht]

My 2016 Marquis 125 was Euro 5 as well, as is my current 2016 Carthago on a Fiat chassis. When I've checked some LEZ areas, I have a suspicion that they think it is Euro 6 based on the registration date. My Crit Air is 2 and the German one 4.

 

[Flairy]

Brains you must be a dealers favourite customer ,I’ll carry on with my euro nothing and see the world.

 

[Lenny HB]

I have a suspicion that they think it is Euro 6 based on the registration date. My Crit Air is 2 and the German one 4.

Crit Air 2 is for Euro 5 & 6, German Umweltplaketteis Euro 4 for the Green 4.

 

[Neil S]

Manchester, Birmingham, Bristol and the Lake District are looking at a collective idea of banning all non Euro 6 vehicles from the M5/M6 corridor down the entire western side of England.

do you seriously think Cumbrian working folks and farmers will put up that shit being told they can’t have their cars and pickups unless they are euro6
Id like to see them try and implement that .
People will rebel against this and rightly so

 

[Neil S]

err, I presume you realise that a mere 6 years from now all sale of diesel and petrol cars stops ?

The average life of a car is around 20 years.
It means that around 5% of the car fleet is scrapped each year, and 5% of the car fleet is brand new.

The last fossil fuel car to roll of the production lines 2029 will be 10 years old in 2039, half way through its life.

There is expected to be a degree of what is being termed as 'Cubanisation', whereby older fossil fuel cars are kept on the road beyond their normal 'sell by' date, however this will only extend the life, on average, by 2-3 years.

Therefore; it is expected that by 2042, which is as you point out is 19 years from now, fossil fuel cars will be in the minority. As each year passes 5% more of the fossil fuel cars are scrapped to be replaced by EV's.

petrol hybrids still in production until 2035
BMW have already stated they will be continuing production of piston engined vehicles for the foreseeable future

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[herald_400rl]

Big sad for my Euro2 then.

 

[Bobby dazzler]

I simply would not buy any diesel vehicle older than 2014/Euro 6

At the moment a 2013 Euro 5 vehicle is priced a few percent less than those that are one year newer and Euro 6, however the reality is they should be half the price.

Sooner or later the older Euro vehicles will find larger and larger areas where they are forbidden.
Today its the centre of 5 cities in the UK.
By the end of 2023 it will be the centre of about 30 UK cities
5-7 years from now it will not only nearly every major city, but also many larger towns.
Then they start to restrict major traffic pinch points such as road bridges, sections of main road forcing the older vehicles to take the long way around

Manchester, Birmingham, Bristol and the Lake District are looking at a collective idea of banning all non Euro 6 vehicles from the M5/M6 corridor down the entire western side of England.

A decade from now will you be able to drive a Euro 5 or earlier van from Lands End to John O'Groats ?

I suspect it will still be possible, but it will be a very convoluted route avoiding all cities, most major towns, the main bridges and most of the motorway system

Don't worry they will soon come for your euro 6 van they won't stop at euro 5

 

[Brains]

Don't worry they will soon come for your euro 6 van they won't stop at euro 5

True, see upthread, Euro 6 should be OK in most cities until the mid 2030's

(Although Paris has declared that all Petrol/Diesel vehicles will be banned by 2030, but suspect this in central Paris only, and dates have a habit of being moved)

 

[Bobby dazzler]

True, see upthread, Euro 6 should be OK in most cities until the mid 2030's

(Although Paris has declared that all Petrol/Diesel vehicles will be banned by 2030, but suspect this in central Paris only, and dates have a habit of being moved)

Should be ok I wouldn't trust anything they say personally I wil keep driving my excellent 312d sprinter that's 25 years old until they lock me up for doing so.

 

[Brains]

Should be ok I wouldn't trust anything they say personally I wil keep driving my excellent 312d sprinter that's 25 years old until they lock me up for doing so.

They'll only lock you up if you don't pay the ever increasing daily fines/Tolls.
As long as you have deep pockets you should be OK for another decade.

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[Neil S]

I simply would not buy any diesel vehicle older than 2014/Euro 6

At the moment a 2013 Euro 5 vehicle is priced a few percent less than those that are one year newer and Euro 6, however the reality is they should be half the price.

Sooner or later the older Euro vehicles will find larger and larger areas where they are forbidden.
Today its the centre of 5 cities in the UK.
By the end of 2023 it will be the centre of about 30 UK cities
5-7 years from now it will not only nearly every major city, but also many larger towns.
Then they start to restrict major traffic pinch points such as road bridges, sections of main road forcing the older vehicles to take the long way around

Manchester, Birmingham, Bristol and the Lake District are looking at a collective idea of banning all non Euro 6 vehicles from the M5/M6 corridor down the entire western side of England.

A decade from now will you be able to drive a Euro 5 or earlier van from Lands End to John O'Groats ?

I suspect it will still be possible, but it will be a very convoluted route avoiding all cities, most major towns, the main bridges and most of the motorway system

a credible link to these proposals banning euro 5 in the Lakes and the N.W of England ?

 

[Bobby dazzler]

They'll only lock you up if you don't pay the ever increasing daily fines/Tolls.
As long as you have deep pockets you should be OK for another decade.

Yeah let's see how much people put up with anyway and to be honest they wouldn't be locking me up anyway and alot more like me I suspect

 

[ianp]

Manchester, Birmingham, Bristol and the Lake District are looking at a collective idea of banning all non Euro 6 vehicles from the M5/M6 corridor down the entire western side of England.

I'm not sure that regional authorities have the legal capacity to limit through traffic on motorways etc as they don't come under their jurisdiction ?

Yeah let's see how much people put up with anyway and to be honest they wouldn't be locking me up anyway and alot more like me I suspect

Don't feed the troll..........

 

[pagey]

err, I presume you realise that a mere 6 years from now all sale of diesel and petrol cars stops ?

The average life of a car is around 20 years.
It means that around 5% of the car fleet is scrapped each year, and 5% of the car fleet is brand new.

The last fossil fuel car to roll of the production lines 2029 will be 10 years old in 2039, half way through its life.

There is expected to be a degree of what is being termed as 'Cubanisation', whereby older fossil fuel cars are kept on the road beyond their normal 'sell by' date, however this will only extend the life, on average, by 2-3 years.

Therefore; it is expected that by 2042, which is as you point out is 19 years from now, fossil fuel cars will be in the minority. As each year passes 5% more of the fossil fuel cars are scrapped to be replaced by EV's.

And I will be 92 and gaga and unlikely to be here

 

[Brains]

a link to these proposals banning euro 5 in the Lakes and the N.W of England ?

Have a google.

There have been several reports of councils and national parks looking into introductions of policies that limit the pollution/number of vehicles, which means something similar to the London Congestion Charge
(Where locals and EV were exempt or got reduced fees)

If London can do a Congestion/LEZ with millions of daily movements on a 125 mile border with thousands of entry/exit points all covered by ANPR, it would be dead easy in the Lake District, as a couple of dozen ANPR cameras could cover all the entry/exits west of the M6

If there is a way of extracting more money from motorists, why would any authority turn down the easy option ?

One article is here but there are many more if you dig around

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[Neil S]

Have a google.

There have been several reports of councils and national parks looking into introductions of policies that limit the pollution/number of vehicles, which means something similar to the London Congestion Charge
(Where locals and EV were exempt or got reduced fees)

If London can do a Congestion/LEZ with millions of daily movements on a 125 mile border with thousands of entry/exit points all covered by ANPR, it would be dead easy in the Lake District, as a couple of dozen ANPR cameras could cover all the entry/exits west of the M6

If there is a way of extracting more money from motorists, why would any authority turn down the easy option ?

One article is here but there are many more if you dig around

A link from Guardian a leftie rag - aye right a virtue of all truth
implement this sort of policy and tourist will go elsewhere