EU driver slapped with London emissions fines totalling £25,000

[SpeedyDux]

What all of it or just the straightforward cases and the local NHS picking up the complications ( because thats the usual experience in Leicester and Middlesbrough)

All of it AFAIK except Hospital Trusts. I think basically it is some kind of commissioning body that sits between the NHS and GPs, community hospitals etc. Whether healthcare provision has improved is somewhat debateable.

"What is Virgin Healthcare new name?

After more than 10 years as part of the Virgin Group, Virgin Care, has today rebranded as HCRG Care Group and has been acquired by Twenty20 Capital bringing together their strengths, capability and expertise in the health and care services sector.1 Dec 2021"

How Virgin became one of the UK's leading healthcare providers

Virgin’s rapid expansion into healthcare has seen it winning contracts for services from immunisation to sexual health

www.theguardian.com

 

[Odd-no-more]

I think keep both where they are and make people work for benefits. The problem with a high minimum wage is it encourages exactly what you've said people not bothering in education as they're still going to earn fairly well anyway.

When the minimum wage is increased other wages will also have to rise to maintain differentials, to pay everyone more we need higher productivity. This requires a rethink of all working practices, this will not happen partly due to shortsighted unions.

 

[gus-lopez]

So ban all cars but I bet there will be a bigger outcry.

That is how it should have been from the outset of the 'congestion' charge . A straight forward ban on all vehicles.

 

[Coolcats]

Where I live primary healthcare has been outsourced to Virgin Healthcare.

Interesting when ours had funding cuts they were taken over by Virgin health care complaints rose and they were placed in to special measures

 

[Coolcats]

When the minimum wage is increased other wages will also have to rise to maintain differentials, to pay everyone more we need higher productivity. This requires a rethink of all working practices, this will not happen partly due to shortsighted unions.

interesting when productivity is the same shouldn't wages be the same? You can’t keep becoming more and more productive. It’s the old adage of if it takes a woman 9 months to have a baby you can’t take 9 women and have a baby in a month!

I recall a time of secretary’s, typing pools dictation machines back in the late 90’s early 00’s I could have a meeting call a dictation machine and by the time I got back to the office a draft was ready for me to edit. Then everyone was told they had to be their own admin no admin support as they were all made redundant under the guise of higher productivity. Yup that meant longer hours for me more productive probably not. For a short period the company saved money on support staff but was this really improved productivity.

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[Odd-no-more]

interesting when productivity is the same shouldn't wages be the same? You can’t keep becoming more and more productive. It’s the old adage of if it takes a woman 9 months to have a baby you can’t take 9 women and have a baby in a month!

I recall a time of secretary’s, typing pools dictation machines back in the late 90’s early 00’s I could have a meeting call a dictation machine and by the time I got back to the office a draft was ready for me to edit. Then everyone was told they had to be their own admin no admin support as they were all made redundant under the guise of higher productivity. Yup that meant longer hours for me more productive probably not. For a short period the company saved money on support staff but was this really improved productivity.

In most jobs productivity can be increased with better planning/better equipment/better working practices. To achieve this everyone has to be onboard and on this country that doesn't happen.

 

[Paul and Val]

A fixed penalty fine and 3 points. Your insurance premiums will go up significantly as well, merely because you were caught committing a victimless crime. Some insurers will treat attendance at a driving awareness course as equivalent to accepting the fixed penalty.

I was OK with 20 mph zones outside schools during the hours when pupils were arriving or leaving. Since then, these zones have proliferated, for reasons that are not easily understood nor justifiable except in terms of the creeping war on cars. A classic example of the thin end of the wedge. The same goes for emissions zones of all kinds. The excuses about reducing emissions / climate change are just that. Mere excuses to gull the public into acceptance of the overweening desire to control everything and everyone until private cars are reserved for the elites.

Very well put. I agree with every word.
Getting back to the original point however, the main problem is that the fine for the congestion zone is FAR TOO HIGH!
A different subject completely is that people who drive high mileages are far more likely to get fined. The three point penalty is far, far to much.
The laws governing motoring offences are ridiculously strong as we are such easy targets.

 

[Paul and Val]

I think if you're caught by a fixed camera you need your eyesight tested.

With respect that is nonsense. Many cameras are hidden and usually at places that are NOT in any way dangerous. There are two near our old house in England, both at the bottom of sections of good road with no junctions. One is at the very end of a downhill section of dual carriageway, behind a sign and the other is on a downhill section with lots of trees in front of it on a very slight right hand curve.
They catch thousands of drivers every year and neither section of road is unsafe.
Where are the cameras outside schools?

 

[Brains]

With respect that is nonsense. Many cameras are hidden and usually at places that are NOT in any way dangerous. There are two near our old house in England, both at the bottom of sections of good road with no junctions. One is at the very end of a downhill section of dual carriageway, behind a sign and the other is on a downhill section with lots of trees in front of it on a very slight right hand curve.
They catch thousands of drivers every year and neither section of road is unsafe.
Where are the cameras outside schools?

That is why they are called 'Revenue Cameras' and not 'speeding cameras' by Yorkshire Police

 

[Coolcats]

In most jobs productivity can be increased with better planning/better equipment/better working practices. To achieve this everyone has to be onboard and on this country that doesn't happen.

Possibly possibly not many jobs are cut to the bone now anyway, if as in your tittle you were a gas engineer would you like to have been tracked on every job, put on performance if you were 5 mins over time all in the name of productivity. So when this type of management control is imposed often shortcuts are taken and re-appointments are made either due to a rushed job or a failure caused by an oversight meaning increased re-visits. All in the name of speeding things up for increased productivity.

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[ctc]

With respect that is nonsense. Many cameras are hidden and usually at places that are NOT in any way dangerous. There are two near our old house in England, both at the bottom of sections of good road with no junctions. One is at the very end of a downhill section of dual carriageway, behind a sign and the other is on a downhill section with lots of trees in front of it on a very slight right hand curve.
They catch thousands of drivers every year and neither section of road is unsafe.
Where are the cameras outside schools?

You know they are there so don't speed. The thousands caught shouldn't have been breaking the law and shouldn't be fined but incarcerated then when the speeders have gone we can get rid of the cameras.

 

[Odd-no-more]

Possibly possibly not many jobs are cut to the bone now anyway, if as in your tittle you were a gas engineer would you like to have been tracked on every job, put on performance if you were 5 mins over time all in the name of productivity. So when this type of management control is imposed often shortcuts are taken and re-appointments are made either due to a rushed job or a failure caused by an oversight meaning increased re-visits. All in the name of speeding things up for increased productivity.

Productivity is not about working quicker, it's about working smarter. When I had my interview I told the manager I will work as hard and as well as I can for you and hit you with a claim for a big pay rise at the end of the year. He told me that pay was negotiated jointly for engineers, I said nothing but thought I will change that. I got the job and worked as well as I could and made myself useful to the company. When I left I was the highest earner in the company apart from the MD and company secretary. I had bypassed the manager who took me on and the MD was in reality my line manager.
I achieved this by working for the company, looking after the customers and bringing in more work. The engineers who just do their jobs and no more are the majority and not as productive.

 

[gus-lopez]

the main problem is that the fine for the congestion zone is FAR TOO HIGH!

Exactly & under eu law not in proportion ,but you can't use that one anymore

The three point penalty is far, far to much.

Yes that is the problem.& why points removal was done away with here up to certaion percentages over.

That is why they are called 'Revenue Cameras' and not 'speeding cameras' by Yorkshire Police

as long as they never said that to my face they woulkd be ok.

then when the speeders have gone we can get rid of the cameras.

You're dreaming. They will remain forever,.they are about control,tracking & power. Just hope the terrorists & fundamentalists never get control of them.

 

[Spriddler]

You're dreaming. They will remain forever,.they are about control,tracking & power. Just hope the terrorists & fundamentalists never get control of them.

 

[Odd-no-more]

View attachment 740802

I'm not sure that's correct, there are many rules and laws that are put in place by the good guys to keep us safe from the bad guys. Ten commandments for a start. It is not legal to kill someone, that is good compliance as far as I'm concerned.

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[SpeedyDux]

You know they are there so don't speed. The thousands caught shouldn't have been breaking the law and shouldn't be fined but incarcerated then when the speeders have gone we can get rid of the cameras.

As you are probably aware, one of the scandals concerned the abusive interpretation of rules/guidance on the positions for the fixed cameras.

A classic example in Bristol was the placing of a Gatso to catch speeders in an underpass, where there is no footpath and no pedestrians. That can only have been a revenue-driven not a safety-driven decision. In fact, the road that had had been the location for 2 or 3 recent fatal RTAs involving pedestrians was the road above the underpass, yet that bogus proximity criterion had been relied on as the excuse to target only drivers using that underpass.

This cynical interpretation completely undermines the overall road safety case for fixed cameras. There are plenty of examples of tricky placement that is likely to catch many more motorists. It undermines public acceptance to the point where cameras get vandalised.

Anyhow back to your point - the latest fixed speed cameras are much less visible than their predecessors. Especially the ones at the back of motorway gantries in the variable speed limit "smart" motorways around the Almondsbury interchange*. They become visible at the last moment, or in your rear view mirror after you passed them, and are painted grey not yellow. I rely on my satnav to give a warning when approaching the gantries that have live cameras. I know you shouldn't exceed the speed limits, but the "smart" motorway section becomes confusing when the variable limits keep changing sometimes just as you pass the signed gantry.

*currently subject to major roadworks and a blanket temporary 50 mph limit, enforced by SPECS average speed cameras. Painted yellow, so more visible.

 

[Coolcats]

Productivity is not about working quicker, it's about working smarter. When I had my interview I told the manager I will work as hard and as well as I can for you and hit you with a claim for a big pay rise at the end of the year. He told me that pay was negotiated jointly for engineers, I said nothing but thought I will change that. I got the job and worked as well as I could and made myself useful to the company. When I left I was the highest earner in the company apart from the MD and company secretary. I had bypassed the manager who took me on and the MD was in reality my line manager.
I achieved this by working for the company, looking after the customers and bringing in more work. The engineers who just do their jobs and no more are the majority and not as productive.

Ok so here is the rub, you could possibly have run your own organisation with your own work protocols as you see them, it seems what you were doing suited you and the company you worked for and good for you.

However not everyone is fit to be self employed, they just do not have the business acumen and you may have found working for a different organisation you would not have been paid so handsomely as the management would want to keep more for themselves. I would respectfully suggest that you cannot just take yourself as an example even though it is clear you were valued as an employee.

I have heard seen and experienced the working smarter narrative before, to me its management speak, of course there are ways to improve process's particularly within older organisations where process and procedure can be updated but many younger organisation are not ladened with past process and procedures, often there is very little slack to improve things.

 

[gus-lopez]

Ten commandments for a start. It is not legal to kill someone, that is good compliance as far as I'm concerned.

Yes but that was from God ,whereas it is those that people elect that cannot lie in bed straight & are wanting compliance that cannot be trusted.

 

[Odd-no-more]

Ok so here is the rub, you could possibly have run your own organisation with your own work protocols as you see them, it seems what you were doing suited you and the company you worked for and good for you.

However not everyone is fit to be self employed, they just do not have the business acumen and you may have found working for a different organisation you would not have been paid so handsomely as the management would want to keep more for themselves. I would respectfully suggest that you cannot just take yourself as an example even though it is clear you were valued as an employee.

I have heard seen and experienced the working smarter narrative before, to me its management speak, of course there are ways to improve process's particularly within older organisations where process and procedure can be updated but many younger organisation are not ladened with past process and procedures, often there is very little slack to improve things.

The point I was making is in most jobs there is room for improvement but most people are not interested in anything but the minimum amount of work, this includes management so things just stay as they are. For increased standards of living we should all work together, as they do in Germany, to raise production and wages. Here employees have no interest in the company doing well and most managers would not think to raise pay when the firm is doing well. So we have "them and us" and do not improve anything.

For myself I have run my own businesses and worked as a manager for others, this was before I started in gas work. That did give me an understanding of how a company functions but that should not be exclusive, people should be taught basic economics at school so they understand pay has to be earned and paid for by the customers. My productivity was higher than my colleagues because I knew this and worked for it. Sadly we lag behind Europe because most workers have no idea where the money comes from, and management want to keep the workforce on the lowest possible pay.

 

[The Wino]

The point I was making is in most jobs there is room for improvement but most people are not interested in anything but the minimum amount of work, this includes management so things just stay as they are. For increased standards of living we should all work together, as they do in Germany, to raise production and wages. Here employees have no interest in the company doing well and most managers would not think to raise pay when the firm is doing well. So we have "them and us" and do not improve anything.

For myself I have run my own businesses and worked as a manager for others, this was before I started in gas work. That did give me an understanding of how a company functions but that should not be exclusive, people should be taught basic economics at school so they understand pay has to be earned and paid for by the customers. My productivity was higher than my colleagues because I knew this and worked for it. Sadly we lag behind Europe because most workers have no idea where the money comes from, and management want to keep the workforce on the lowest possible pay.

I think the whole working from home thing has shown how bad management are. For a lot of companies there only measurement of a persons productivity is how many hours they are at work. I was speaking to someone the other day he worked in sales and his figures were the best in the company by a pretty big margin but his manager was starting to complain as he wasn't in the office early in the mornings ( because he was talking to his sales contacts!) Results are what matters a lot of jobs could be payed based on that rather than the amount of time staring at a blank screen.

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[gus-lopez]

For increased standards of living we should all work together, as they do in Germany, to raise production and wages.

Here employees have no interest in the company doing well and most managers would not think to raise pay when the firm is doing well.

So we have "them and us" and do not improve anything.

That about sums it all up. I can't ever see the unions being on the board 6 working with managment in the UK.

 

[Wherearewenow]

Sorry, you’re wrong. EVs are exempt from the London Congestion Charge.

For now untill pay per mile comes in,

 

[Coolcats]

The point I was making is in most jobs there is room for improvement but most people are not interested in anything but the minimum amount of work, this includes management so things just stay as they are. For increased standards of living we should all work together, as they do in Germany, to raise production and wages. Here employees have no interest in the company doing well and most managers would not think to raise pay when the firm is doing well. So we have "them and us" and do not improve anything.

For myself I have run my own businesses and worked as a manager for others, this was before I started in gas work. That did give me an understanding of how a company functions but that should not be exclusive, people should be taught basic economics at school so they understand pay has to be earned and paid for by the customers. My productivity was higher than my colleagues because I knew this and worked for it. Sadly we lag behind Europe because most workers have no idea where the money comes from, and management want to keep the workforce on the lowest possible pay.

I guess there is a couple of things, I have worked in teams where if the team hits target the manager and team gets thier Bonus payment. A bonus payment is a one off and not linked to pay and pension.

In the teams I would for the first 6 months give more support to the newer weaker performers helping then achieve. Then the next 3 months start focussing on the middle tier to bring them in over their target and the last 3 months on the over achievers that way the target was smashed and everyone wins as the team hits the target.

When you look at management practice they are told to churn the bottom 10% or more of the lower performers (in the name of productivity) which is harsh as one year someone can smash their targets by luck skill or combination of both. The next year market conditions may have changed or it could be personal issues outside of work means the individual does not hit target and in that 10%. Do you churn that individual as many organisations would or does the company take time to support them through a difficult time. My preference is the latter as most individuals will, when they climb out of the personal issue go out of their way to ensure they perform again as they have been supported during a personal crisis/issue. But you do have to have the right management to do this. Most companies have management who are inept and have no interpersonal or management skills.

This may make you chuckle but many sales people don’t understand how the margins mean profitability and discount to the hilt just to get a sale and as they say turnover is vanity and profit is sanity. It’s managements job to ensure their staff understand profitability including turning the lights off when leaving the office.

Just one other point I do believe people go to work to do a good job not just the minimum and management can create an Enviroment to support this work ethic with a velvet glove and an iron fist (the latter normally out of sight unless really needed)

I did exit one person out of a company as they were so inept, they had been given many chances across departments. But ensured they had the best possible leaving package and truly hope they went on to be a success in their dream job (wasn’t to be in the industry he exited from).

 

[Northernraider]

This dude has the right idea

 

[Northernraider]

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[Odd-no-more]

I guess there is a couple of things, I have worked in teams where if the team hits target the manager and team gets thier Bonus payment. A bonus payment is a one off and not linked to pay and pension.

In the teams I would for the first 6 months give more support to the newer weaker performers helping then achieve. Then the next 3 months start focussing on the middle tier to bring them in over their target and the last 3 months on the over achievers that way the target was smashed and everyone wins as the team hits the target.

When you look at management practice they are told to churn the bottom 10% or more of the lower performers (in the name of productivity) which is harsh as one year someone can smash their targets by luck skill or combination of both. The next year market conditions may have changed or it could be personal issues outside of work means the individual does not hit target and in that 10%. Do you churn that individual as many organisations would or does the company take time to support them through a difficult time. My preference is the latter as most individuals will, when they climb out of the personal issue go out of their way to ensure they perform again as they have been supported during a personal crisis/issue. But you do have to have the right management to do this. Most companies have management who are inept and have no interpersonal or management skills.

This may make you chuckle but many sales people don’t understand how the margins mean profitability and discount to the hilt just to get a sale and as they say turnover is vanity and profit is sanity. It’s managements job to ensure their staff understand profitability including turning the lights off when leaving the office.

Just one other point I do believe people go to work to do a good job not just the minimum and management can create an Enviroment to support this work ethic with a velvet glove and an iron fist (the latter normally out of sight unless really needed)

I did exit one person out of a company as they were so inept, they had been given many chances across departments. But ensured they had the best possible leaving package and truly hope they went on to be a success in their dream job (wasn’t to be in the industry he exited from).

I am not a fan of bonus schemes, more often than not they are not thought through well. A couple of examples; my cousin was an advertising salesman for a newspaper they had a bonus scheme, after the first year a bonus was paid on all sales exceeding last years total. This was ok for a few years, my cousin was the best salesman and was selling double the amount of anyone else, but then he had reached the maximum and although he was still selling double the amount on anyone else he received no bonus, newer salespeople were selling a third of the amount he was and getting more pay. He complained to the paper but they said they wouldn't/couldn't change the scheme. My cousin left for a new job and the paper lost the best salesman they ever had. My own firm had a bonus scheme, we received a bonus for every new boiler we sold. Now it is not easy to sell a boiler to someone who has a perfectly working boiler, but it is easy to sell one to someone who has a failed boiler which is beyond economical repair. So all the bonus did was to reward engineers who attended very old broken down boilers and was completely useless as a marketing tool.

British Gas had a bonus for the number of boilers serviced all this did was get engineers to not do a full service, in and out as fast as possible. OK as long as there's no concern for customers.

My old boss, who was ex-british gas, liked a bonus scheme and tried many over the years, including a bonus for not damaging a vehicle with the slogan "bend your van, lose your bonus". It didn't work, I knew it wouldn't, because nobody damages a van deliberately.