Electric Motorhomes at Scale, Can't be Far Away Now.

[The Wino]

So when you said

did you mean that some 'alternative fuels' were fossil fuels, like engine oil and petrol? In what sense are they 'alternative'? I thought the whole point of 'alternative fuels' was they were an alternative to fossil fuels.

Not just that but from a pollution point of view burning used cooking oil and engine oil in controlled conditions in an incinerator to produce electricity to power EVs is likely to produce a lot less harmful by products.

 

[Barriesimpson]

There comes a point when you realise it is not your problem, and there is nothing you can do about it. We are here for 10 minutes or so, and we have to live with what we have. If we buy an electric vehicle (the biggest scam of this century) we can maybe feel better and think we are helping the environment. But we are not, we are merely migrating one problem to another. Climate change has always existed on this planet and always will, trying to change it is futile. So I for one, am not about to restrict my enjoyment of the short time I have here, if I want to run a V8 engined car that does 10 miles to the gallon, I will. If I want to fly a private jet across the world, I will. If I want to burn gas to heat my motorhome, I will. And above all, if I want to eat meat, I will - I don't care about the cow farts. If I'm lucky, I maybe have another 20 years on this planet and I have no intention of curbing my enjoyment. When the planet goes 'bang' I'll be long gone, so it does not affect me. Sorry for being a realist (Not really ).

 

[Guigsy]

There comes a point when you realise it is not your problem, and there is nothing you can do about it. We are here for 10 minutes or so, and we have to live with what we have. If we buy an electric vehicle (the biggest scam of this century) we can maybe feel better and think we are helping the environment. But we are not, we are merely migrating one problem to another. Climate change has always existed on this planet and always will, trying to change it is futile. So I for one, am not about to restrict my enjoyment of the short time I have here, if I want to run a V8 engined car that does 10 miles to the gallon, I will. If I want to fly a private jet across the world, I will. If I want to burn gas to heat my motorhome, I will. And above all, if I want to eat meat, I will - I don't care about the cow farts. If I'm lucky, I maybe have another 20 years on this planet and I have no intention of curbing my enjoyment. When the planet goes 'bang' I'll be long gone, so it does not affect me. Sorry for being a realist.

CO2 in the atmosphere has doubled in a few generations. The climate has changed in my lifetime. The world is not an unchanging monolith. We are contributing to the changes.

 

[Barriesimpson]

CO2 in the atmosphere has doubled in a few generations. The climate has changed in my lifetime. The world is not an unchanging monolith. We are contributing to the changes.

We are not.

 

[Guigsy]

We are not.

The extra CO2 comes from fossil fuels. The ratio of carbon isotopes proves it.

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[The Wino]

There comes a point when you realise it is not your problem, and there is nothing you can do about it. We are here for 10 minutes or so, and we have to live with what we have. If we buy an electric vehicle (the biggest scam of this century) we can maybe feel better and think we are helping the environment. But we are not, we are merely migrating one problem to another. Climate change has always existed on this planet and always will, trying to change it is futile. So I for one, am not about to restrict my enjoyment of the short time I have here, if I want to run a V8 engined car that does 10 miles to the gallon, I will. If I want to fly a private jet across the world, I will. If I want to burn gas to heat my motorhome, I will. And above all, if I want to eat meat, I will - I don't care about the cow farts. If I'm lucky, I maybe have another 20 years on this planet and I have no intention of curbing my enjoyment. When the planet goes 'bang' I'll be long gone, so it does not affect me. Sorry for being a realist.

Where does that stop for other people who think their own enjoyment is more important than who things belong to etc as it doesn't affect them?

 

[Blaydon]

The point I am trying to make is we need diversity. If we all go electric, our infrastructure will not be able to cope. The current opposition work for some but not for all.

 

[Guigsy]

The point I am trying to make is we need diversity. If we all go electric, our infrastructure will not be able to cope. The current opposition work for some but not for all.

The grid has much less load on it than it did 30 years ago. Energy efficiency has been really effective. And EVs won't create large peak loads. The overall volume of energy that we need to generate does need to increase. But even if all new cars were EVs tomorrow, it would take nearly 10 years before they made up half the cars on the road. Yes, lots of work is required, but it's totally feasible.

 

[Blaydon]

I beg to differ but that’s what discussion is about.
However I’m sure we both agree we need to wean ourselves off oil based fuels and climate change is very real and very scary.

The grid has much less load on it than it did 30 years ago. Energy efficiency has been really effective. And EVs won't create large peak loads. The overall volume of energy that we need to generate does need to increase. But even if all new cars were EVs tomorrow, it would take nearly 10 years before they made up half the cars on the road. Yes, lots of work is required, but it's totally feasible.

 

[enark]

CO2 in the atmosphere has doubled in a few generations. The climate has changed in my lifetime. The world is not an unchanging monolith. We are contributing to the changes.

You are all contributing by scrapping perfectly good diesel and petrol cars just to have the latest fad.

Slow down, yes stop making ICE cars in say twenty years and then let EVs take over in time..

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[The Wino]

You are all contributing by scrapping perfectly good diesel and petrol cars just to have the latest fad.

Slow down, yes stop making ICE cars in say twenty years and then let EVs take over in time..

Why stop in 20 years rather than in 5 years unless it's because you don't fancy one!

 

[Googlebot]

You are all contributing by scrapping perfectly good diesel and petrol cars just to have the latest fad.

Slow down, yes stop making ICE cars in say twenty years and then let EVs take over in time..

We went EV as the ICE was stuffed, I don’t think anyone with any financial sense at all would chuck away a perfectly good ICE car for an EV.

 

[nicholsong]

Our Honda HR-V is 24 yo and looks and runs fine and our N&B Arto is 22 yo in a few weeks and is also great. I think both could run another 10 years with not many problems. The Honda owes us only £2K from 7 years ago and the Arto £27.5K from 15 years ago. The Honda only rarely goes as far as the airport 30km away but the Arto goes annually to Greece or France, about 5000 miles a year.

An EV could replace the Honda but at what pverall cost, even charging at home, and a MH EV, if available, would at present not be practical for the longer trips. So ICE it is for us for the forseeable future.

 

[autorouter]

You are all contributing by scrapping perfectly good diesel and petrol cars just to have the latest fad.

Slow down, yes stop making ICE cars in say twenty years and then let EVs take over in time..

Every single second you are running an ICE engine, you are converting fossil fuels into CO2. I understand the logic of being reluctant to scrap perfectly good ICE engines, but why is anyone manufacturing brand new ICE engines, or buying them, when they know they can do nothing but spew out CO2 to make climate change worse?

 

[enark]

Every single second you are running an ICE engine, you are converting fossil fuels into CO2. I understand the logic of being reluctant to scrap perfectly good ICE engines, but why is anyone manufacturing brand new ICE engines, or buying them, when they know they can do nothing but spew out CO2 to make climate change worse?

And every EV purchased means somewhere another vehicle is been scrapped.

An EV has about 60% of the carbon footprint of an ICE car, so my V70 which ive run for 12 years is way less of a contributor to global warming than someone who has had 3-4 cars in that time, EV or ICE.

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[enark]

Why stop in 20 years rather than in 5 years unless it's because you don't fancy one!

No, because ICE cars will long have a perfectly usable lifespan.

And the majority of the world dont care anyway,….

 

[Guigsy]

And every EV purchased means somewhere another vehicle is been scrapped.

An EV has about 60% of the carbon footprint of an ICE car, so my V70 which ive run for 12 years is way less of a contributor to global warming than someone who has had 3-4 cars in that time, EV or ICE.

And every new ICE car means another ICE scraped.

We're not saying everyone has to buy an EV right now. But when they do need replacing, it ought to be an EV.

 

[The Wino]

No, because ICE cars will long have a perfectly usable lifespan.

And the majority of the world dont care anyway,….

Are you saying people ought to be allowed to continue to use ice cars for 20 years ( given a suitable taxation regeme to encourage change ) which seems perfectly reasonable or that they should be able to buy new ice cars for the next 20 years which sounds bonkers given the strides ev cars are making?

 

[gus-lopez]

What about the people's need for breathable non-polluted air. Or preventing greenhouse gases changing the climate bringing floods, wild fires and lethal heat waves?

You can't keep everyone alive & to attempt to do so overloads the health service.

Could we not have benefitted in a similar way from our oil extraction?

Yes if the gov.uk had any interest in the people rather than the profits

They have had a totally different approach to using their natural resources

Yes ,ring fenced so they could not be pissed up the wall like the UK did

Why stop in 20 years rather than in 5 years unless it's because you don't fancy one!

why not let people choose without any gov.uk pressure ,lez zones ,etc?

but why is anyone manufacturing brand new ICE engines,

we need them here for the generators that are back yp to the electric supply as no one has enough

Are you saying people ought to be allowed to continue to use ice cars for 20 years ( given a suitable taxation regeme to encourage change ) which seems perfectly reasonable or that they should be able to buy new ice cars for the next 20 years which sounds bonkers given the strides ev cars are making?

there should be no gov. interference . Just take there taxes & keep their noses out.

 

[enark]

And every new ICE car means another ICE scraped.

We're not saying everyone has to buy an EV right now. But when they do need replacing, it ought to be an EV.

I havent purchased an ICE car since 2013………

And what about the countless millions who cant have an EV - cost, parking and charging. Ok for those with their own driveway!!

And more casualties in the daft net zero mumbo jumbo https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2d3zlkl4kro

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[The Wino]

You can't keep everyone alive & to attempt to do so overloads the health service.

Yes if the gov.uk had any interest in the people rather than the profits

Yes ,ring fenced so they could not be pissed up the wall like the UK did

why not let people choose without any gov.uk pressure ,lez zones ,etc?

we need them here for the generators that are back yp to the electric supply as no one has enough

there should be no gov. interference . Just take there taxes & keep their noses out.

Should the government stop prosecuting people for crimes against others as well then? If you believe in climate change or even just that poor air quality affects health why should people be allowed to reduce others quality of life?

 

[PaulW2]

Should the government stop prosecuting people for crimes against others as well then? If you believe in climate change or even just that poor air quality affects health why should people be allowed to reduce others quality of life?

We always have argued about these questions and always will.

Proposition: Any inequality at all, of income or anything else, is a travesty which needs to be corrected.

versus

Proposition: Any claim at all on my resources and liberty is an unwarranted incursion which should be resisted.

Both of these are positions for which strong arguments can be marshalled. All our societies settle somewhere in the middle. And we almost never manage to persuade each other that our individual take on it is better than the other's.

 

[autorouter]

And every EV purchased means somewhere another vehicle is been scrapped.

So what? Every ICE purchased means somewhere another vehicle is being scrapped. That's the way it works.

 

[autorouter]

An EV has about 60% of the carbon footprint of an ICE car, so my V70 which ive run for 12 years is way less of a contributor to global warming than someone who has had 3-4 cars in that time, EV or ICE.

A new EV has a bit more of a carbon footprint than a new ICE. However an EV doesn't produce any 'tailpipe' CO2, so after 6 months to a year it has an equal carbon footprint to an ICE.

After that, it produces very little or no CO2 depending on how the electricity is generated. An ICE keeps producing large amounts of CO2 every year. Your 12 year old V70 has produced 12 years worth of CO2 emissions from burning fossil fuels, and keeps on producing them.

Of course if you maintain that everyone changes their car after a year, then you could claim the emissions are equal. Or if everyone changes their car after 2 years the emissions are only 50% reduced. But if like you they change after 12 years the emissions are down to 8%.

 

[PaulW2]

A new EV has a bit more of a carbon footprint than a new ICE. However an EV doesn't produce any 'tailpipe' CO2, so after 6 months to a year it has an equal carbon footprint to an ICE.

After that, it produces very little or no CO2 depending on how the electricity is generated. An ICE keeps producing large amounts of CO2 every year. Your 12 year old V70 has produced 12 years worth of CO2 emissions from burning fossil fuels, and keeps on producing them.

Of course if you maintain that everyone changes their car after a year, then you could claim the emissions are equal. Or if everyone changes their car after 2 years the emissions are only 50% reduced. But if like you they change after 12 years the emissions are down to 8%.

Do you have a source for those numbers?

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[Blaydon]

Do you have a source for those numbers?

There are many ‘facts’ and ‘Statistics’ on the interweb, mind you, as Albert Einstein said, you can’t trust everything you read on the Net.

 

[autorouter]

Do you have a source for those numbers?

How clean are electric cars?

How much CO2 can electric cars really save compared to diesel and petrol cars? To answer this question we have developed a tool (see below) that compiles…

www.transportenvironment.org

 

[Jim]

THOR unveils hybrid Class A motorhome with 500-mile range

THOR Industries recently zoomed past a major milestone on its trailblazing journey into the electric future, and it did so in a first-of-its-kind hybrid recreational vehicle.

The THOR Test Vehicle, which debuted at the 2024 Elkhart Dealer Open House, is the world’s first hybrid Class A motorhome. This sleek demonstration vehicle is built on THOR’s exclusive Harbinger EV Chassis, the first electric chassis custom designed to power Class A motorhomes.

“Electrification will play a central role in the future of the RV industry,” said THOR Industries President and CEO Bob Martin. “THOR’s Harbinger platform positions our family of companies to efficiently bring best-in-class hybrid Class A products to the market. These innovative vehicles will create significant points of differentiation for our companies by delivering superior experiences to consumers.”

Easing Range Anxiety​

Developed in collaboration with Harbinger Motors, a leader in medium-duty EV innovation, the hybrid chassis is powered by an electric motor and battery system that is recharged by a low-emissions gasoline range extender while being driven. Roof top solar panels also feed the batteries. The chassis can be configured with three to six 35kWh batteries. This clever system delivers an estimated 500 miles of range, alleviating range anxiety and delivering ultimate travel freedom and sustainability.

RVs built on this hybrid chassis will be commercially available in 2025 from the THOR family of companies. The product is expected to qualify as a Near-Zero Emission Vehicles (NZEV) under the Advanced Clean Truck legislation adopted by the California Air Resources Board.

“We founded Harbinger with a mission to modernize the medium-duty vehicle industry,” said Harbinger Motors CEO and Co-Founder John Henry Harris. “Our collaboration with THOR and its innovators has allowed us to advance that objective in the RV segment by creating the basis for products that will enhance every aspect of the RVing experience.”

The Test Vehicle is about 20% more aerodynamic than similar RVs because of its tapered front and rear. This design innovation, which supports greater range, directly results from THOR’s recent investment in aerodynamic research.

An 800-volt electrical architecture allows for rapid charging at DC Fast Charger locations, which allows owners to spend less time charging and more time exploring.

The vehicle can also charge at current campsite electric hookups, as well as charging via the range extender and solar power.

Benefits Beyond Mobility​

This innovative chassis adds value even while sitting in the owner’s driveway. Its battery pack can provide backup home power and charge electric toys and tools, such as e-bikes and power drills. In the future, it will allow owners to potentially sell power stored in the vehicle’s batteries back to the grid.

The Test Vehicle’s electric powertrain also delivers excellent acceleration and torque for confident highway driving on mountain roads and through rough terrain.

In keeping with THOR’s holistic approach to electrification, the THOR Test Vehicle's design innovations go beyond the powertrain. Its double-wishbone front suspension provides a smooth ride and excellent handling. Production models built on the chassis will have a steer-by-wire system that gives THOR’s operating companies flexibility to design cockpits to meet their owners’ wants and needs. Class-leading Advanced Driver Assistance System (ADAS) features provide a safe, smooth ride and excellent handling.

World’s First Hybrid Class A Motorhome

The THOR Test Vehicle embodies THOR’s commitment to electrifying the future of RV adventure.

www.thorindustries.com

 

[AndyPK]

I bet it’s not cheap…..!!

 

[Googlebot]

I bet it’s not cheap…..!!

Yup, but neither is anything new now.

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