Electric Motorhomes at Scale, Can't be Far Away Now.

[DangerMousy]

Another point - what about the environmental cost of digging out the heavy and rare metals, transporting them, making the batteries, transporting them, and then disposing of them? Are not in danger of leaving a huge problem for future generations to deal with. OK for us crinkly folks, but our children and grand children will have a lot to sort out.

What about the environmental cost of extracting the crude oil, transporting it, refining it, transporting it again, and then burning it? Are we not in danger of leaving a huge problem for future generations to deal with - rising global temperatures, air pollution, oil spills, reliance on a finite resource that can't be recycled? OK for us crinkly folks, but our children and grandchildren will have a lot to sort out.

 

[Blaydon]

What about the environmental cost of extracting the crude oil, transporting it, refining it, transporting it again, and then burning it? Are we not in danger of leaving a huge problem for future generations to deal with - rising global temperatures, air pollution, oil spills, reliance on a finite resource that can't be recycled? OK for us crinkly folks, but our children and grandchildren will have a lot to sort out.

I completely agree. That is why we need to look at alternative fuels for ICEs. There are some really interesting results coming through from F1 development and we all know it is through the extreme end of motoring that the best ideas are developed.

Strange if its only 4 years old.....the I-Pace come with an 8 year/100k miles warranty, why isn't he claiming under it?

Yes he is in negotiations with Jaguar, but at the moment they are offering to buy back the car - for £17,000. Not all warranty documents are as good as others.

 

[autorouter]

I completely agree. That is why we need to look at alternative fuels for ICEs. There are some really interesting results coming through from F1 development and we all know it is through the extreme end of motoring that the best ideas are developed.

Yes, it's possible to synthesise a few jerrycans of fuel suitable for F1 from plant material. But the millions of litres required for everyday transport is not going to come from available agricultural land anytime soon. The logistics just don't make sense.

And I certainly wouldn't believe environmental statements from an industry that, as I recall, fought tooth and nail to avoid a ban on lead additives to petrol in spite of the clear evidence of harm.

 

[Blaydon]

I ran my Landrover Discovery on waste oil from the canteen for years. Good economy and the exhaust smelt of chips. Not all alternative fuels have to come from agricultural land.

 

[CAB96]

No one has mentioned the fact that a significant number of motorhomes are kept in storage, not on the driveway. Unless substantial infrastructure is installed at these locations, it cannot be assumed that any motorhome is going to start its journey with a full charge. Whilst some of the journeys will be within a 100 mile or so radius and this viablethis viable "run to the sun" may involve five or six days of long runs. Add in that theseAdd in that thesemay well be "off-grid" and it starts looking problematic. I submit that thiI submit er to the reality of motorhome usage.

That does not address the points raised in my post though

OK.

Storage.

Ah yes, you are referring to the plethora of posts that we see on here, bemoaning the fact that someone's storage site doesn't have a diesel pump, so they always have to make sure they have enough range to fill up next time they fetch the Motorhome from storage?

Next.

Run to the sun.

On this I quite agree.

Those pesky French and those annoying Spaniards are refusing to install electric charging points.

I think we should complain to the European Union and get the Commission to make them install charging points at strategic locations, for the Brit EV Moho's on their annual migration.

Oh, wait a minute, we can't do that anymore

(p.s. apologies for inadvertently mangling your quotes, this phone cursor keeps jumping about the text box).

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[Folkranger]

…and then it will need recharging…..!

What? after only 40 miles?
I only do relatively short journeys which is why I got this particular model. I charge it once a week at home. For longer journeys I have the motorhome and my wife's VW EV which has twice the range.
The savings are great.

 

[autorouter]

I ran my Landrover Discovery on waste oil from the canteen for years. Good economy and the exhaust smelt of chips. Not all alternative fuels have to come from agricultural land.

What kind of oil was it?

 

[Guigsy]

Synthetic fuels currently take about 20 times more energy to make than they contain. The best estimates are that they'll get that down to 5 times with volume production and development. Remembering that ICE aren't that efficient to begin with.

Alternatively you put the energy in a battery and either go about 12 times further. Or you need a twelfth of the wind farms to do each mile.

Even hydrogen looks sensible next to synthetic fuels.

 

[Blaydon]

Synthetic fuels currently take about 20 times

I quite agree - but the key word here is Currently.
If we were to go and make 10 Gallons of petrol from scratch the price would be huge. It is about developing systems and processes that can be expanded to produce alternatives.
I too am very interested in Hydrogen as an alternative. However out lords and masters in government seem very keen to pick one idea and say that is THE answer to EVERYTHING.
What we need is a mixed bag of alternatives. Remember, the stone age did not end because they ran out of rocks. When cars took over from horses, we began to use horse drawn vehicles, and ride them for pleasure. I have a really great set of carving tools but would use them to shave with. Nor would I try and shape wood on my lathe with a razor blade.
We need to have the option for each situation.

 

[Guigsy]

I quite agree - but the key word here is Currently.
If we were to go and make 10 Gallons of petrol from scratch the price would be huge. It is about developing systems and processes that can be expanded to produce alternatives.
I too am very interested in Hydrogen as an alternative. However out lords and masters in government seem very keen to pick one idea and say that is THE answer to EVERYTHING.
What we need is a mixed bag of alternatives. Remember, the stone age did not end because they ran out of rocks. When cars took over from horses, we began to use horse drawn vehicles, and ride them for pleasure. I have a really great set of carving tools but would use them to shave with. Nor would I try and shape wood on my lathe with a razor blade.
We need to have the option for each situation.

But even if they optimise, in ideal circumstances, synthetic fuels still look like they'll take 5 times as much energy to make as they contain (reality is probably worse). And combustion engines are not very efficient. Hence you'll get roughly 12 times as far per unit of energy in a battery car than a car burning on synthetic. So synthetics might be useful for racing and classic cars. But running your diesel motorhome on it will be very costly.

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[The Wino]

But even if they optimise, in ideal circumstances, synthetic fuels still look like they'll take 5 times as much energy to make as they contain (reality is probably worse). And combustion engines are not very efficient. Hence you'll get roughly 12 times as far per unit of energy in a battery car than a car burning on synthetic. So synthetics might be useful for racing and classic cars. But running your diesel motorhome on it will be very costly.

There does seem a reluctance to move on from ice engines whether powered by diesel petrol hydrogen unicorn droppings or whatever which I really struggle to see the logic behind! Maybe it's because batteries that are around now are relatively recently developed or people just like the sound of an engine revving as things like battery life being really low are debunked there's the next myth to keep on old tech then the next.

 

[Guigsy]

There does seem a reluctance to move on from ice engines whether powered by diesel petrol hydrogen unicorn droppings or whatever which I really struggle to see the logic behind! Maybe it's because batteries that are around now are relatively recently developed or people just like the sound of an engine revving as things like battery life being really low are debunked there's the next myth to keep on old tech then the next.

It's starting to feel like the people that kept their horse drawn carts, with the excuse that they liked the smell.

 

[The Wino]

It's starting to feel like the people that kept their horse drawn carts, with the excuse that they liked the smell.

Except the pollution provided was carbon neutral and good for your roses

 

[gus-lopez]

Indeed BMW say that their Munich plant will be building 100% electric

I watched a programme the other night where mercedes were complaining that they could not sell there revamped C63 hybrid as anyone who could be a buyer wanted the monster V8 not what they were being asked to change to.

What kind of oil was it?

My last coach built I could ,& did, run on anything. sunflower,rapeseed, etc; as long as it was less than price per litre of diesel it was win-win- That was one of the reasons gov.uk made manufacturers increase price of cooking oil, to try to stop people using it for road fuel..

There does seem a reluctance to move on from ice engines whether powered by diesel petrol hydrogen unicorn droppings or whatever which I really struggle to see the logic behind!

mainly because like housing ,you need at least 3 sources of fuel to ensure that you are not left high & dry when one is in short supply.
As to the horse & cart it was phased out over time it wasn't forced on the population by the government.
Government should be there solely to work for the people & to ensure there needs are met. Pollution & longevity should be nothing whatsoever to do with them. Nothing!

 

[autorouter]

Government should be there solely to work for the people & to ensure there needs are met. Pollution & longevity should be nothing whatsoever to do with them. Nothing!

What about the people's need for breathable non-polluted air. Or preventing greenhouse gases changing the climate bringing floods, wild fires and lethal heat waves?

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[enark]

It's starting to feel like the people that kept their horse drawn carts, with the excuse that they liked the smell.

Says someone who drives a polluting diesel van?

 

[enark]

There does seem a reluctance to move on from ice engines whether powered by diesel petrol hydrogen unicorn droppings or whatever which I really struggle to see the logic behind! Maybe it's because batteries that are around now are relatively recently developed or people just like the sound of an engine revving as things like battery life being really low are debunked there's the next myth to keep on old tech then the next.

Lucky yous that can afford such luxury as a brand new electric car, many cant so perhaps consider them eh?

And many even if they could have no parking space outside their house to park one..

 

[Guigsy]

Says someone who drives a polluting diesel van?

I'm not claiming it's a good thing. Or denying climate change or the effects of pollution.

 

[Garry - June]

I love the fact so many people are talking about Norway as an example of the way forward and their comparatively large take up of EV's as though they are a shining example... without acknowledging the glaring fact that most of their wealth has and still is from Oil production..

 

[The Wino]

I love the fact so many people are talking about Norway as an example of the way forward and their comparatively large take up of EV's as though they are a shining example... without acknowledging the glaring fact that most of their wealth has and still is from Oil production..

Could we not have benefitted in a similar way from our oil extraction? They have moved on a lot here seem to want to cling to the past

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[The Wino]

I love the fact so many people are talking about Norway as an example of the way forward and their comparatively large take up of EV's as though they are a shining example... without acknowledging the glaring fact that most of their wealth has and still is from Oil production..

Have a quick look at this

Did the U.K. Miss Out on £400 Billion Worth of Oil Revenue? | Natural Resource Governance Institute

resourcegovernance.org

They have had a totally different approach to using their natural resources

 

[gilbaro]

None of this will matter soon when we move back to having the man walking in front with the red flag.
The proliferation of 20mph limits is just the precursor to this!

 

[Viennese]

I won't concern myself with this as I know I couldn't afford an E-camper. I will continue to run my 15 year old diesel relay and will enjoy it.

 

[Peregrinator]

Hydrogen fuel cells are the future

Most companies have stopped their plans on Hydrogen

 

[Guigsy]

Most companies have stopped their plans on Hydrogen

Hydrogen had two apparent advantages.
-it's quicker to refill. Except with BEV you can fill at the supermarket, on the drive. And we've now got cars that'll add 250 miles of charge in 10 minutes. At this point, BEV is way more convenient. Even HGVs are getting a 1MW charging standard to make them more viable.
-it can store the energy until it's needed. But the efficiency isn't great. So you need more generation to compensate. And requires new infrastructure if you want to move it.

Now pilot projects are finding that hydrogen pumps aren't as quick as fossil fuel pumps and they are a pain to maintain. And fuel cells don't last forever. The catalyst or the membrane breaks down. So for high duty use cases like trucks, buses and trains, the fuel cells are being replaced after 2-3 years.

Hydrogen does still have industrial uses. But I think it's dead for road transport.

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[h8ten]

Tesla are using lithium for the 12v now since about 2020.
The system monitors the 12v and alerts if it need changing or if the dc to dc chrager for it from the main battery fails.

They are now on to 16-volt Lithium Ion for the non-drivetrain electrics.

 

[Blaydon]

What kind of oil was it?

It was cooking oil that was taken out of the frier. I’m sure it was vegetables oil but given it was ‘waste’ it seemed to me environmentally sound.
I also used old engine oil after it had been filtered through industrial filters and cut with petrol. Again, waste products. The TD5 engine was bulletproof and it was only ULEZ that forced me to sell the car.

 

[autorouter]

It was cooking oil that was taken out of the frier. I’m sure it was vegetables oil but given it was ‘waste’ it seemed to me environmentally sound.
I also used old engine oil after it had been filtered through industrial filters and cut with petrol. Again, waste products. The TD5 engine was bulletproof and it was only ULEZ that forced me to sell the car.

So when you said

Not all alternative fuels have to come from agricultural land.

did you mean that some 'alternative fuels' were fossil fuels, like engine oil and petrol? In what sense are they 'alternative'? I thought the whole point of 'alternative fuels' was they were an alternative to fossil fuels.

 

[enark]

So when you said

did you mean that some 'alternative fuels' were fossil fuels, like engine oil and petrol? In what sense are they 'alternative'? I thought the whole point of 'alternative fuels' was they were an alternative to fossil fuels.

Think its pretty clear what was said? ‘Some’ & ‘not all’ are a clue?

 

[Guigsy]

While cooking oil can be used as a diesel replacement, there's nowhere near enough for it to make a significant dent in transport. We'd have to fry a lot more chips!

Biofuels straight from crops is also a bit silly. Even in the UK, you get about 6 times more energy out of a field by covering it in solar panels than you do from growing corn or rape seed. And in terms of ecology, a solar farm is way better than a monoculture field covered in pesticides.

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