Don't worry about motorhome payload

[haybal]

Hi Funsters,

We have been to look at 2 MH's today at the same dealership, we were told by the sales man if we needed anything just ask, he then left us to look around which was great. Every now and then someone came to check we were ok and to see if we needed any help, then I asked a question about usable payload and was told " Don't worry about payload most people run over weight with the amount of gear they carry.
This wasn't the response I was expecting, so when I ask that if there was an accident and the MH was over weight could that not invalidate the insurance his reply was "probably not".

would appreciate your thoughts on this please, this is our first MH we are looking to buy and want it all above board so to speak.

Cheers,
Barry and Hayley

 

[rosalan]

Hello "HA" and a very warm welcome.
As you may see, just like anywhere else in life, Motorhomers reflect a fair cross-section of society. Some people do not give a fig for the law whilst others, possibly aware of the consequences, like to do things right. As for the sales person it is still a matter of caveat emptor, meaning buyer beware, their main task is to sell the vehicle. We bought from a dealer in Essex, got the van we wanted and they proved to be excellent when it came to warranty and later servicing but if they had given the type of advice you were given and I had walked away..... Sadly, at the end of the day, it must be down to you to be aware of some of the pitfalls before buying your first van. So much excellent advise has been given here that I feel sure you are now armed with the knowledge of what is alright and what is not.


Almost the heaviest item on board are the liquids, fuel and water over which you do have control. Another sometimes forgotten item can be bikes fastened to the back. The further they are from the axle, the heavier they become. Good luck!

 

[tonyidle]

If the vehicle is plated at 3500kgs then I don’t think that is the case , you would only be guilty of driving an overweight vehicle.
As far as insurance is concerned , time would pass between accident and claim and weight could probably not be accurately assessed.
This I believe has been stated on previous threads on the subject.

I meant driving a vehicle plated over 3500 - although I didn't make it clear .

 

[Makingtrax]

Almost the heaviest item on board are the liquids, fuel and water over which you do have control. Another sometimes forgotten item can be bikes fastened to the back. The further they are from the axle, the heavier they become. Good luck!

Interesting point you raise about distribution of load. The further the bikes are behind the back axle the heavier they will become on the rear axle only. That will be offset by the force taken off the front axle due to the back axle acting as a lever.

Would need to apply some physics to model that effect but the bikes won't add anymore overall weight however far they are from the back axle. Just have to watch the axle weights.

 

[MikeD]

That sounds light... did that include driver + passenger? Water?
My PVC was supposed to have 450kg payload but after optional solar panel, additional battery, towbar, me & dog plus stuff and I was up to maximum allowable.

We never travel with much water and van driver was not included.

We picked it up near Birmingham, drove straight to Dave Newell to have air assist, alarm and solar panel fitted and then home to the local weigh bridge.

If u take Sandra and i, food. Beer/wine, clothes, bottled water and such i suspect we are a little overweight.

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[two]

i suspect we are a little overweight.

Are you referring to the van, now?
If so, remove all non-essentials, like the bottled water.

 

[haybal]

Hello "HA" and a very warm welcome.
As you may see, just like anywhere else in life, Motorhomers reflect a fair cross-section of society. Some people do not give a fig for the law whilst others, possibly aware of the consequences, like to do things right. As for the sales person it is still a matter of caveat emptor, meaning buyer beware, their main task is to sell the vehicle. We bought from a dealer in Essex, got the van we wanted and they proved to be excellent when it came to warranty and later servicing but if they had given the type of advice you were given and I had walked away..... Sadly, at the end of the day, it must be down to you to be aware of some of the pitfalls before buying your first van. So much excellent advise has been given here that I feel sure you are now armed with the knowledge of what is alright and what is not.


Almost the heaviest item on board are the liquids, fuel and water over which you do have control. Another sometimes forgotten item can be bikes fastened to the back. The further they are from the axle, the heavier they become. Good luck!

Hi rosalan,
Thanks for your input, I am gradually working out what things take priority over others. We are in the process of weighing things like Bikes, chairs, ourselves etc, to try and get a rough estimate of how much usable payload we may need.
I now know how to work out the weight of fluids we may carry (water/diesel) which is a big help, if it comes to uprating the MH we decide on to stay within the law so be it.

Could I be nosey and ask what dealer you went to in Essex? as this is where we are located.

 

[rosalan]

Hi rosalan,
Could I be nosey and ask what dealer you went to in Essex? as this is where we are located.

We bought from Pullingers at Halstead and would buy from them again based upon our experience of their after-sales service.

 

[mitzimad]

Thanks for that chaps, I have the C1 on my licence but looking at a PVC as parking anything bigger is an issue at the moment but thus far haven’t seen anything with a decent payload. I need the payload for kayaks, bikes and fishing gear and am looking to do some serious touring. Hopefully by the time I have visited the Peterborough show I will have more idea.

you need to get a vehicle that is built on the maxi chasisthe van in my avatar was and i could have uprated to 4tonne

 

[Live Life Now]

I've said it before and I will say it again, NAME AND SHAME. We work hard for the money that we so willingly give to these dealers and do trust in SOME of their advice.
If you do not name and shame then other less knowledgeable MHs could be led to a disaster.
No more sycophantic adoration, NAME AND SHAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Some of the comments on this matter are excellent and very informative, Thank you

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[Live Life Now]

I must admit I was a bit disappointed, 4 hr round trip to a dealer that has won awards for customer satisfaction and are a family business. Both MH's were ideal for us, but we are a bit unsure of dealing with this company now.

Bit unsure, RUN A BLOODY MILE

 

[dathers]

Simply don't buy any MH without seeing it weighed, even the manufactures weights are allowed to be within 5% so on 3.5 tonnes thats 175 kilos - its scary!

 

[john lillie]

my mate was a hgv driver and he got done once for overweight, so he panicked me. I have a burstner aviano with gross 3.5t, so I half filled with water, included all bedding and two full bottles of gas, half a tank of fuel and went on weighbridge- weighed in at 3220kg, which allows me 280kg fo me the mrs and the dogs ( we probably weigh 180kg) so 100kg for food and clothing.I was pleasantly surprised, but most of all put my mind at rest, well worth the six quid for peace of mind. Goo luck with your search

 

[Minxy]

We have a Globecar Familyscout which is on the Fiat maxi heavy XL chassis (6.36m), before this we had an Autocruise Accent PVC (6.0m) with a payload of just over 500kg which we didn't exceed so when we bought our Familyscout we were pleasantly surprised as, even though it is bigger the build materials are lighter weight (but no worse quality), it had a stated a payload of over 580kg which was more than sufficient for our needs. We didn't know originally but was advised by another funster that our Familyscout could be uprated to 4250kg 'as is' which I investigate and found someone to do it for a lot less than SVTech charge and whom a lot of funsters have now used. The reason we uprated it was so that we didn't need to have any worries whatsoever if we decided to make use of the large storage area and carrying capacity and as a bonus the road tax is cheaper!

We are now getting a Globecar Campscout in a few weeks on a maxi heavy XL chassis again and a similar payload which we too will uprate to 4250kg (hopefully by the dealer when he registers it with the DVLA), if not then afterwards using John again.

We'll also be selling our Familyscout shortly, once the warranty stuff has been done, and will leave it at 4250kg which any new owner can easily downrate again and still have a usable payload. Having had a vehicle on the heavy chassis I would find it very difficult to go 'down' to a standard one now as the difference in handling, travel etc, is noticeable.

 

[Beemobile]

The salesman should know the weight of the vehicle he's selling and therefore the payload, so a van weighing 51.14 cwt, has a payload of approx 13.82cwt thats= nearly fourteen bags of coal, someone will tell me I'm wrong but that's ok, most motorhome mags give a rough idea of stats. Go to a good dealer with good salesmen/women.

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[Mickey1]

https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/motorhome-weight.148610/
@haybal , check this old post of mine, hope you didn’t have the same dealer.

Mickey

 

[john lillie]

forgot to add, my burstner has solar panel, sattelite system aerial, gaslow twin bottle system, and folding chairs, leads hose, tools etc were all included in the 3220kg, (but not the driver)

 

[G-RMPS]

I only saw a single reference to the chassis. According to SVtech the light ALKO chassis on Fiat derivatives cannot be upgraded from 3850kg. We were mislead by the dealer and our van is not fit for the purpose we described to him. We have weighed our van 6 times so far, and have a spreadsheet listing every single item and its location so we can calculate the weight on each axle. We never have more than half fuel, 20 litres of fresh water, no grey or black water, and just two-up. We do have an awning, but no dogs, bikes, solar panels, satellite. We struggle to meet gross weight and weight on rear axle on every trip. Caveat emptor!

 

[Teuchter]

.

Another point im aware of is someone who bought a motorhome plated at 3850kg and they didnt have a c1...
I thought the dealer would have been obliged to point out to the buyer that they would need their c1 to drive it ..apparently not..
Anyways just some more eg to add to the thread..
Andy

I am also that someone, see my post #102 (2 above your original!)

The Lake district dealer I bought my 1st MoHo from made no mention of any licence restriction!

The other dealer Highbridge of Somerset asked me right at the start and when I told him that my MoHo was 3850 and I had been driving it for nearly a year he was shocked - he told me that the Lakeland lot should have ascertained that I had the correct licence before they sold it to me - part of the "Dealers Code of Practice" I think were the words he used!!

 

[Blue Knight]

[QUOTE="G-RMPS, post: 2781838, member: We never have more than half fuel, 20 litres of fresh water, [/QUOTE]

I really feel for you guys when you'e forced to weigh your van with only half fuel and no water. It's this type of constraint which detracts from the whole MoHo-experience.

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[G-RMPS]

[QUOTE="G-RMPS, post: 2781838, member: We never have more than half fuel, 20 litres of fresh water,

I really feel for you guys when you'e forced to weigh your van with only half fuel and no water. It's this type of constraint which detracts from the whole MoHo-experience.[/QUOTE]

Agreed :-(

 

[Teuchter]

I might be in a minority but I never considered 'payload' on any MH....... just bought it assuming that whatever I bought was 'fit for purpose'.............ignorance is sometimes bliss

The 3500 kg 'limit' means what?...............over and a C1 licence needed.........which again means what ?.............you don't need a medical if you drive anything less than that........... you could carry on forever

Regulations and rules don't always equal commonsense..........if I needed a medical at 70 for my C1 why not everyone?..........or is a 70 year-old driving a Range-Rover any safer ?

Well put BB

When I uprated my van to 4000 Kg no mechanical or any other Alterations were required - purely a paper exercise - carried out very efficiently by SV tech

So when my van was rated at 3500 Kg I was (at 74 years old) legally qualified and entitled to drive my van without a C1 licence, however when I received the uprating certificate it became illegal - regardless of the actual weight of the van!!

I do of course have a C1 licence

 

[Crazylegs]

[QUOTE="G-RMPS, post: 2781838, member: We never have more than half fuel, 20 litres of fresh water,

I really feel for you guys when you'e forced to weigh your van with only half fuel and no water. It's this type of constraint which detracts from the whole MoHo-experience.[/QUOTE]


I couldn’t agree more, and some of the spurious comments that are made about this subject, e.g. your not insured if overweight must make the whole Motorhome thing very daunting to someone considering a purchase.

 

[Jonno1103]

I'm surprised that in many cases renowned dealers have sales people who know less about the product than the prospective buyer.

I'm limited to 3500kg I'm also limited to auto's so buying took a lot of homework before our purchase. I was disappointed with most of the well known dealers we visited. One even tried to suggest that particular standard fit kit was free of charge cost options and he was doing me a favour.

My brother in law was sold on a 4 berth, the usual overcab bed, rear U shape lounge and a metre longer than our Tracker. He was particularly enthused with the extra space he'd gain in the luton... until I explained that just because the van is longer and has two extra berths the 3500kg doesn't change, his payload would probably be less as the base vehicle is heavier. Why pay for wasted space?

Most of the usual products bought for a motorhome, chairs, windbreak, awning mat etc all have their weights advertised on the various websites, you can even go so far as weighing consumables plus cutlery etc at home. With a bit of effort it's not difficult to stay in weight.

I think for new owners it's trial and error, it takes a bit of time to know what's useful, what's not and what is a genuine weight and space thief.

 

[Jonno1103]

On My Licence why is it that my limit is 3500kg but I'm allowed to tow an unbraked 750kg trailer?

Surely it would be safer to have the option of 4250kgs and no trailer?

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[Liverpoollass]

I’m so glad I subscribed to this site as the advice has been great

Me too!!

 

[Cheshirecat57]

I only saw a single reference to the chassis. According to SVtech the light ALKO chassis on Fiat derivatives cannot be upgraded from 3850kg. We were mislead by the dealer and our van is not fit for the purpose we described to him. We have weighed our van 6 times so far, and have a spreadsheet listing every single item and its location so we can calculate the weight on each axle. We never have more than half fuel, 20 litres of fresh water, no grey or black water, and just two-up. We do have an awning, but no dogs, bikes, solar panels, satellite. We struggle to meet gross weight and weight on rear axle on every trip. Caveat emptor!

Actually, caveat emptor does not exonerate vendor from the sales of goods act
Goods haveto be fit for the purpose you intended. The Dealer has a responsibility to match YOUR needs not THEIR stocklist

 

[nicholsong]

Actually, caveat emptor does not exonerate vendor from the sales of goods act
Goods haveto be fit for the purpose you intended. The Dealer has a responsibility to match YOUR needs not THEIR stocklist

Correct, but you need to have evidence of what you stated were your needs - written would be the best, before signing and parting with money, even a deposit.

Problem is many dealers might think you are a 'difficult' customer and they would rather sell to someone else.

I wonder how many salesmen have even looked at the SofG Act never mind been trained in what it means in practice.

Geoff

 

[Reddave999]

As I have stated earlier I am a Newbie and as yet I have not purchased MH yet so please excuse my ignorance but I have to get this right as my intention is to carry flyfishing gear, kayak, two adult cycles and associated gear, plus the usual stuff. So you can see it is going to be a recreational vehicle and thus the weight issue is important. At the moment I have now decided not to go for the Rapido as mentioned above but looking at an Autotrail Mohawk which I think will do the job. I’ll keep you posted but thanks for your advice thus far it’s been really helpful.

Ps any comments on the Autotrail Mohawk would be much aappreciated

 

[G-RMPS]

Correct, but you need to have evidence of what you stated were your needs - written would be the best, before signing and parting with money, even a deposit.

Problem is many dealers might think you are a 'difficult' customer and they would rather sell to someone else.

I wonder how many salesmen have even looked at the SofG Act never mind been trained in what it means in practice.

Geoff

Yes, we just discussed our requirements verbally with the salesman. Someone else in the showroom was desperate to buy the same vehicle so we had to decide on the spot whether to go ahead or forget.

We paid up and took the vehicle home, then got it weighed, and subsequently found the weight issue. We told the dealer we would not use the van and would return with it a week later to discuss options. We were treated in a completely offhand manner, even though we had seriously considered spending significantly more to get a brand new fit-for-purpose vehicle.

We considered legal action but with nothing in writing we felt we were on somewhat shaky ground.

Enough wingeing...we are now experts at weighing stuff, and are sitting in the sun at L’Escale ;-)

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[Ivory55]

On My Licence why is it that my limit is 3500kg but I'm allowed to tow an unbraked 750kg trailer?

Surely it would be safer to have the option of 4250kgs and no trailer?

I am no expert so I might be a little off. There is a limit on overhang past the rear axel based on a formula of chassis length etc. A 3.5 ton chassis would have a smaller distance between axel then a 4.25 ton chassis so less overhang and a shorter van over all , compared to the 4.5 ton . Hope that makes sense, if not we need someone who is cleverer. Haha.