Don't worry about motorhome payload

[haybal]

Hi Funsters,

We have been to look at 2 MH's today at the same dealership, we were told by the sales man if we needed anything just ask, he then left us to look around which was great. Every now and then someone came to check we were ok and to see if we needed any help, then I asked a question about usable payload and was told " Don't worry about payload most people run over weight with the amount of gear they carry.
This wasn't the response I was expecting, so when I ask that if there was an accident and the MH was over weight could that not invalidate the insurance his reply was "probably not".

would appreciate your thoughts on this please, this is our first MH we are looking to buy and want it all above board so to speak.

Cheers,
Barry and Hayley

 

[G-RMPS]

I am no expert so I might be a little off. There is a limit on overhang past the rear axel based on a formula of chassis length etc. A 3.5 ton chassis would have a smaller distance between axel then a 4.25 ton chassis so less overhang and a shorter van over all , compared to the 4.5 ton . Hope that makes sense, if not we need someone who is cleverer. Haha.

Technically, I believe the overhang should not exceed 60% of the wheelbase. My van is right at the limit. Legally, a bike rack or even a towbar would exceed the limit.

 

[Ivory55]

I was trying to explain you could get a van bigger physically if it was a heavier weight. Being 3.5 ton it limits its size.

 

[Minxy]

I am no expert so I might be a little off. There is a limit on overhang past the rear axel based on a formula of chassis length etc. A 3.5 ton chassis would have a smaller distance between axel then a 4.25 ton chassis so less overhang and a shorter van over all , compared to the 4.5 ton . Hope that makes sense, if not we need someone who is cleverer. Haha.

Not quite right ... the distance between the axles determines how much of an overhang the vehicle can have, the weight actually has nothing to do with it as some 3500kg MHs have massive overhangs due to the layout.

 

[Ivory55]

Yes but if the distance between axel is greater the overhang is greater as % of it is bigger

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[Jonno1103]

As I have stated earlier I am a Newbie and as yet I have not purchased MH yet so please excuse my ignorance but I have to get this right as my intention is to carry flyfishing gear, kayak, two adult cycles and associated gear, plus the usual stuff. So you can see it is going to be a recreational vehicle and thus the weight issue is important. At the moment I have now decided not to go for the Rapido as mentioned above but looking at an Autotrail Mohawk which I think will do the job. I’ll keep you posted but thanks for your advice thus far it’s been really helpful.

Ps any comments on the Autotrail Mohawk would be much aappreciated

The Mohawk is a beautiful Motorhome. None of the preloved Autotrails from around 2012/13 last long on the forecourt. Those with the platinum pack, silver cabs etc look particularly attractive.
Keep an eye on the overhead locker hinges, the screws aren't particularly long but normal use is more than ok.

She'll have around a 725kg payload with the media pack and a twin bike rack taken into consideration but that's another grey area as back then AT used to take 90% water into account when working out the mass in running order so a realistic 25 litres for toilet flushing and dishwashing when on the move will push your payload closer to 800kg. Again trying to manage the fuel tank at around the halfway mark will give you another 45kg.

Rear garage can take upto 250kg. If the one your looking at is preloved, as it's a Frontier make sure the 700w microwave is still there, you may never use it but it's standard kit, same goes for the boom arm round table which fits in the bracket behind the pax seat. She'll also have fresh and waste water tank heaters. Check the carpets too it's been known for the bathroom one to be missing, no doubt for the obvious reason.

Press the shower walls as with any van with a separate shower if they give more than around 12mm walk away.

Water tanks... very generous 135 litre fresh and a not too shabby 85 litre waste. 110ah leisure battery and an 85 watt solar panel.

Lift the locker door which houses the electrics and jot down the build number, Autotrail will be more than happy to talk to you about her. They're also offer factory tours.

This link will give you 12 years worth of AT brochures so you can survey the year your looking at.
https://www.auto-trail.co.uk/downloads/brochures
I'd say around £45k will get you a well cared for 2012 model, you may even find one with less than 15k on the clock.

We love Autorails and wouldn't buy anything else.

Oh if you do take the plunge with the Mohawk, join the Auto Trail owners club.

 

[Ivory55]

Does it have space for 2nd battery, if so is the connection lead there for it. A new lead is about £27 £28 mark.

 

[Jonno1103]

The lead & fuse for the loom has always been an added cost on top of the battery for all of the Autotrails when fitted at a dealer, if it's chosen as an option on a new build the price is all in. It tends to be fitted under the offside transverse facing settee.

 

[bfb]

Personally I would ask to what MTPLM the M/Home can be uprated to. A lot of motorhomes are rated up to 3.5 tonnes because of licensing laws. I can uprate mine to 3.85 tonnes without any modification and with minor mods uprate to 4.2 tonnes. It was obviously ok in the first place but in uprating would need a different licence to drive. There are firms who will do this and register with the DVLA for a fee.

 

[TerryDunlea]

Good idea to ‘Name and Shame ‘ I find the lack of knowledge together with scant regard of the Law , very prevalent in this particular Business .If in doubt consult a Professionally Qualified Engineer , and ALWAYS avoid Dealers such as described !

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[Three wheels]

Hi all.
If you consider that a gallon of water weighs 10lb then it´s easy to see how quick you can go ever weight.
Water tank , grey water tank , Bottled water, then gas bottles x 2, leisure batteries, and thats before you start putting your gear in.
Hey Ho, enjoy

 

[Reddave999]

The Mohawk is a beautiful Motorhome. None of the preloved Autotrails from around 2012/13 last long on the forecourt. Those with the platinum pack, silver cabs etc look particularly attractive.
Keep an eye on the overhead locker hinges, the screws aren't particularly long but normal use is more than ok.

She'll have around a 725kg payload with the media pack and a twin bike rack taken into consideration but that's another grey area as back then AT used to take 90% water into account when working out the mass in running order so a realistic 25 litres for toilet flushing and dishwashing when on the move will push your payload closer to 800kg. Again trying to manage the fuel tank at around the halfway mark will give you another 45kg.

Rear garage can take upto 250kg. If the one your looking at is preloved, as it's a Frontier make sure the 700w microwave is still there, you may never use it but it's standard kit, same goes for the boom arm round table which fits in the bracket behind the pax seat. She'll also have fresh and waste water tank heaters. Check the carpets too it's been known for the bathroom one to be missing, no doubt for the obvious reason.

Press the shower walls as with any van with a separate shower if they give more than around 12mm walk away.

Water tanks... very generous 135 litre fresh and a not too shabby 85 litre waste. 110ah leisure battery and an 85 watt solar panel.

Lift the locker door which houses the electrics and jot down the build number, Autotrail will be more than happy to talk to you about her. They're also offer factory tours.

This link will give you 12 years worth of AT brochures so you can survey the year your looking at.
https://www.auto-trail.co.uk/downloads/brochures
I'd say around £45k will get you a well cared for 2012 model, you may even find one with less than 15k on the clock.

We love Autorails and wouldn't buy anything else.

Oh if you do take the plunge with the Mohawk, join the Auto Trail owners club.

Many thanks Jonno for the sound advice, it’s very reassuring to know and thanks too for the link.

 

[Blue Knight]

Many thanks Jonno for the sound advice, it’s very reassuring to know and thanks too for the link.

My only tip is to ensure that you get a thorough damp check done on any Watertrail before you purchase it.

 

[Crazylegs]

Many thanks Jonno for the sound advice, it’s very reassuring to know and thanks too for the link.

Bare in mind it’s only one persons opinion, the forums of the European brands like Burstner and Hymer seem to have more than their fair share of disenchanted ex Autotrail owners, so as ever lots of research is a sensible way forward.

 

[Cheshirecat57]

As I have stated earlier I am a Newbie and as yet I have not purchased MH yet so please excuse my ignorance but I have to get this right as my intention is to carry flyfishing gear, kayak, two adult cycles and associated gear, plus the usual stuff. So you can see it is going to be a recreational vehicle and thus the weight issue is important. At the moment I have now decided not to go for the Rapido as mentioned above but looking at an Autotrail Mohawk which I think will do the job. I’ll keep you posted but thanks for your advice thus far it’s been really helpful.

Ps any comments on the Autotrail Mohawk would be much aappreciated

I would second the earlier post about definately getting a damp check done, but NOT because it’s an Autotrail, but because it’s a Motorhome and a huge amount of money.........
Check the history and if its not got a RECEIPT ( not just a rubber stamp in a book) for every service, habitation check AND annual damp check, i would personally walk away... there will be another one along to buy

Some may disagree, but I would not buy f rom a dealer more than 1 hour from where I live, especially 2nd hand....

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[Cheshirecat57]

On My Licence why is it that my limit is 3500kg but I'm allowed to tow an unbraked 750kg trailer?

Surely it would be safer to have the option of 4250kgs and no trailer?

I am in the truck industry so weight legislation is an every day thing for me
When the 3500kg “thing” was first talked about in legislation, the 750 kg trailer allowance was added as a nod to jobs for younger drivers which involved pulling small work trailers.
I think if the powers had there way they would not have allowed trailers.

I agree that in some cases 4250 with no trailer would have be better, but a weight licence had to be drawn somewhere, and 90% of light vans for work , 25 years ago, were 3500 kg

 

[Jonno1103]

I would second the earlier post about definately getting a damp check done, but NOT because it’s an Autotrail, but because it’s a Motorhome and a huge amount of money.........
Check the history and if its not got a RECEIPT ( not just a rubber stamp in a book) for every service, habitation check AND annual damp check, i would personally walk away... there will be another one along to buy

Some may disagree, but I would not buy f rom a dealer more than 1 hour from where I live, especially 2nd hand....

Yes I think paperwork for all work done is a given, ok if the van is 10 years or older there's more chance of a few bits missing but 90% of it should still be intact. In this computerised data collated world we live in anything post 2008 should have full covernance... if there is the odd anomaly, use it to your advantage, it's a good haggling tool especially as the dealer, if reputable, will fully service the base vehicle, newly MOT the beast and fully service the habitation area prior to handing over the keys... after a thorough inspection and demonstration, of course.

What if you live more than an hour from any dealer which sells the marques your interested in? I wouldn't dismiss an Elddis Majestic because my two closest Marquis dealers are more than an hour away north or south.

If the dealer is NCC Approved the dampcheck and gascheck together with the relevant paperwork must be completed prior to a sale being finalised. If not, demand them, it's your right.

Remember too that most modern coachbuilt motorhomes come with a ten year body ingress warranty which is transferable between owners plus none of the main players use wood in their fabrication any more, I think Benimar we're one of the last finally converting fully 2 years ago.

Words of caution are all well and good but let's not fall into the trap of filling a potential newbies head full of horror stories which are far fewer than some may think. it's the overriding problem with forums of any description, good time are not really discussed, bad news get's multi page threads greatly skewing feedback.

I'd recommend two checklists. The first covering the generic issues which can be found with all coachbuilt motorhomes, the second being specific to the manufacturer and the models they build.

 

[Cheshirecat57]

I totally agree, no scaremongering here.

 

[MikeD]

My only tip is to ensure that you get a thorough damp check done on any Watertrail before you purchase it.

I would qualify that and say after around 2010 and i would buy my own damp meter and check it my self

 

[Beemobile]

I never took into account fuel, ah well!

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[44658]

All this talk of weight, made me realise why so many owners have handbag dogs. Looking forward to Peterborough and tripping over a few more.
Why do owners walk their dogs around the stands instead of excersing them on the fields?

 

[gus-lopez]

Technically, I believe the overhang should not exceed 60% of the wheelbase. My van is right at the limit. Legally, a bike rack or even a towbar would exceed the limit.

They don't count.
& mine is 66% of the wheel base without the bike rack.

I was trying to explain you could get a van bigger physically if it was a heavier weight. Being 3.5 ton it limits its size.

You can have any length of chassis you want as long as the weight at 3,5T is not exceeded.

 

[Reddave999]

Bare in mind it’s only one persons opinion, the forums of the European brands like Burstner and Hymer seem to have more than their fair share of disenchanted ex Autotrail owners, so as ever lots of research is a sensible way forward.

The Burstner IXEO 585 (2012 model) seems to be meeting some of my requirements and I read somewhere that the payload is in excess of 710kgs I just wondered if you Funsters could confirm and also what your thoughts are.

 

[Blue Knight]

The Burstner IXEO 585 (2012 model) seems to be meeting some of my requirements and I read somewhere that the payload is in excess of 710kgs I just wondered if you Funsters could confirm and also what your thoughts are.

Hi Dave @Reddave999, the advertised payload is about 720kg so once you consider the weight of a few extras and a couple of adjustments for the weight of the materials then you may have around 600kg.

You will need to consider the axle weights but if you are buying the van from a dealer (or even as a private sale) then get them to provide a weighbridge certificate just to be on the safe side.

There are a few articles available on the Burstner so have a read and see what you think.

All the best,

Andrew

 

[Ivory55]

They don't count.
& mine is 66% of the wheel base without the bike rack.

You can have any length of chassis you want as long as the weight at 3,5T is not exceeded.

That’s not quite true, there are laws/rules

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[Cheshirecat57]

That’s not quite true, there are laws/rules

Correct, max length of any rigid is 12metres, so wont affect motorhomes at 3500kgs

Max overhang is 60% of wheelbase up to max 3.7 metres

Most would be more concerned about axle weight with large overhang, especially with bikes and rack

 

[Jonno1103]

The Burstner IXEO 585 (2012 model) seems to be meeting some of my requirements and I read somewhere that the payload is in excess of 710kgs I just wondered if you Funsters could confirm and also what your thoughts are.

Wow bit of a step change in space and size from the Mohawk, if your happy with a combined wet room and less kitchen area why not take a look at a 6.2m PVC or one of the Elddis' which can completely stow away the rear seating giving you loads of space?

 

[Reddave999]

Thanks for that Jonno, just trying get some ideas, I’ve not ruled out the Mohawk, my friend has one and it ticks all the boxes, except parking. I can park a panel van or indeed the Burstner 585, outside my outside my house but anything bigger means parking it well away from it. I still need to do more research, hopefully going to the Peterborough show will help, in the meantime any advice is more than welcome.

 

[Jonno1103]

Thanks for that Jonno, just trying get some ideas, I’ve not ruled out the Mohawk, my friend has one and it ticks all the boxes, except parking. I can park a panel van or indeed the Burstner 585, outside my outside my house but anything bigger means parking it well away from it. I still need to do more research, hopefully going to the Peterborough show will help, in the meantime any advice is more than welcome.

As you've hinted that you're a keen cyclist, Maxxraxx build a rack which sits on a towbar rather than having one bolted to the rear wall, the van's payload isn't affected, it can be removed for security, it's sits at a very comfortable height and when traveling abroad the ferry cost would still be for a bike rack rather than a trailer. It would also still give you the future option of fitting a rear mounted box above it within the same overall length which again can be demounted for a little more driveway or road parking space.

https://maxxraxx.co.uk/

Maybe pre-empt your show visit by building a shortlist. You'll probably know by now that all of the manufacturers have downloadable brochures... Cherry pick the models which fit your requirements, it's very easy to quickly reach saturation point and glaze over so that they all look the same in the end.

 

[funflair]

As you've hinted that you're a keen cyclist, Maxxraxx build a rack which sits on a towbar rather than having one bolted to the rear wall, the van's payload isn't affected,

When you say "the vans payload isn't affected" not sure what you mean by this? any load imposed will come off the van payload and this arrangement compared to carrying bikes inside will put a disproportionate load onto the rear axle.

Martin

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[Jonno1103]

When you say "the vans payload isn't affected" not sure what you mean by this? any load imposed will come off the van payload and this arrangement compared to carrying bikes inside will put a disproportionate load onto the rear axle.

Martin

Hi Martin, As my licence is from May '97 I'm subject to all of the well publicised limitations. I looked for a solution to cycle carrying without them impacting too heavily on the MH's payload, the Tracker's is around 350kg. A Thule rear mounted carrier and it's cycle weight capacity is around 70kg's, as it's fixed to the body it is deducted from the 350kg.

Mounting a detachable carrier on a tow bar impacts the 750kg trailer weight I'm allowed instead, I keep the 350kgs.

We opted for the Maxxraxx as it's less bulky and easier to store in the garage. Weighing only 6kg and adding the 48kg of both bikes I'm well within the 75kg max tow ball weight and it doesn't add a disproportionate load to the 1650kg max rear axle weight... most cycle carriers on motorhomes are rear wall mounted. Allowing for a conservative 5% nose weight of 175kg, I'm well within that too.