Disgruntled CAMC Warden Joining Here!

Morning
Have some time so I'll answer some questions I've noted down on a list from these forum pages

First up..I'm not a freemason or anything to do with member number586....whatever that's about !

Gizmoukbadked if I was sacked ,no just quitting with no great drama

Steph and John asked if the deposit will be " bankable",'ive been told that the deposit is non refundable and is meant to stop bookings been cancelled /' moved around at the last minute. As the new booking system is being tweaked there may be an element of transferable deposits but don't hold your breath. It was explained to us that a deposit is way of stabilizing bookings and increasing occupancy

Ezze rider asked if the old bookings and the new system would run in parallel...yep that's what I've told.....uhhhhhh

Swifter asked to know more about the second hand booking system....I don't think the app was designed by a primary school

The new booking system is being adapted from an existing one...it's original form was for booking accommodation and is being tweaked to handle caravans and motorhome. Based on past performance staff are really worried it won't be up to the job and will cause loads of grief
This is the main reason many staff have decided to take an early bath

We have been told it will become active for new bookings in the first quarter of next year and will be announced/ launched in sept/ Oct club magazine

someone asked about regional managers ,all club site are divided regionaly and have a regional manager.they are a mixed bag with wide ranging backgrounds....ours is fine when you learn to manage them as well as the customers,. We keep ours happy by not spending a lot on site upkeep so there bonus is high....seems to work


These are some questions puled from the second half of your posts,I'll read the first half again later and post some more
 
Oldwarden said:
Morning
Have some time so I'll answer some questions I've noted down on a list from these forum pages

First up..I'm not a freemason or anything to do with member number586....whatever that's about !

Gizmoukbadked if I was sacked ,no just quitting with no great drama

Steph and John asked if the deposit will be " bankable",'ive been told that the deposit is non refundable and is meant to stop bookings been cancelled /' moved around at the last minute. As the new booking system is being tweaked there may be an element of transferable deposits but don't hold your breath. It was explained to us that a deposit is way of stabilizing bookings and increasing occupancy

Ezze rider asked if the old bookings and the new system would run in parallel...yep that's what I've told.....uhhhhhh

Swifter asked to know more about the second hand booking system....I don't think the app was designed by a primary school

The new booking system is being adapted from an existing one...it's original form was for booking accommodation and is being tweaked to handle caravans and motorhome. Based on past performance staff are really worried it won't be up to the job and will cause loads of grief
This is the main reason many staff have decided to take an early bath

We have been told it will become active for new bookings in the first quarter of next year and will be announced/ launched in sept/ Oct club magazine

someone asked about regional managers ,all club site are divided regionaly and have a regional manager.they are a mixed bag with wide ranging backgrounds....ours is fine when you learn to manage them as well as the customers,. We keep ours happy by not spending a lot on site upkeep so there bonus is high....seems to work


These are some questions puled from the second half of your posts,I'll read the first half again later and post some more
Click to expand...
Thanks Oldwarden.
 
Thanks Oldwarden, it never made sense to put in a rolling system without deposits.
ezee
 
Given the significance of the change by introducing deposits should this not have to be raised and approved at an AGM \ EGM?

The question was raised at the last AGM -
  • Can the Club start charging non-refundable booking deposits as some members are block-booking sites so that many sites are full months ahead?
with the answer being -
  • As part of the new Overseas and UK sites booking engine programme we are reviewing our current payment terms and conditions in response to member feedback like yours. The first part of the programme introduced the ability for members to book at least one year in advance, removing 'Peak Booking Day' and providing members with an opportunity to make a booking much further in advance at their own leisure. In the event that payment terms change, members will be involved in the process and, of course, notified of any changes in advance. Our ambition is to provide more availability to members by increasing the volume of certain bookings.
Have any C&MC members on here been "involved in the process"?
 
I am not getting involved, the C&MC sounds about as appealing to me as a dose of clap, with so many rules and regulations that it's like being at school



I won't be using them, thankfully
 
You do
pyro said:
I am not getting involved, the C&MC sounds about as appealing to me as a dose of clap, with so many rules and regulations that it's like being at school

View attachment 531544

I won't be using them, thankfully
Click to expand...
You don’t have to get involved as such, we only joined for all the lovely, cheap CL sites around.
If it’s more than a tenner a night I start getting palpitations😄
 
Gellyneck said:
Given the significance of the change by introducing deposits should this not have to be raised and approved at an AGM \ EGM?

Have any C&MC members on here been "involved in the process"?
Click to expand...
Nope!
Been a member for over 20 years and will not be renewing mainly due to cost of pitches but even more disinclined if they introduce deposits.
 
As someone who works, and has to book holiday with at the minimum a week's notice, and who likes to leave arrangements for as late as possible, if the new system means there'll be space for me I might well join The Caravan Club Ltd. On the few occasions I've looked over the past 4 years there's never been space for the days I've wanted.
 
Member of both clubs, but haven't used any CCC sites this year as they just aren't flexible enough.

I hope the CAMC don't go down the same route.

*I generally book a month or a few weeks ahead... and amend as necessary to get the number of days wanted.

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In my view, a much simpler solution to taking deposits would be to increase the 72 hour cancellation limit to, say, 2 weeks, and then impose a pretty strict "2 cancellations closer than two weeks or 2 no shows in a year and all your bookings are cancelled" rule.

I'm a member of both clubs and my first option has been to look at the CAMC sites, because no deposit is needed. In the last two years I've cancelled one night with less than a week's notice and we've probably done about 40 nights on CAMC sites. The one night we cancelled was at High Onn on the way back from the Cotswolds. We'd booked it to check out the site and see if it was a convenient stop off point when heading to/from the South West. As it was we got lucky as that was the weekend that the High Onn site was invaded by travellers, so it's off our list now anyway.
 
Consult the membership? Don't be silly. Haven't used a single CAMC site this year because (a) there are a bit pricey and (b) you have to look up each site individually for the dates you are interested in to find out the cost anyway. Obsfuscation is the name of the game.
 
Hello again
Just a few answers to more questions asked

Shark fighter had issues with the rebrand and name change and that members were not consulted.
Site staff were also not consulted and knew about it at the same time as members

Mike Manning asked about the club selling land for other developments

Yes of course. But a major change is the club giving up the lease on leased sites and buying big mega sites suited to pods,chalets,bars and clubs.

Spawn e git asked about the clubs response to good/bad feedback.....they ignore Google and the club site reviews. They email recent guests with a survey after stays sometimes and we see a choice selection of replays every quarter....we realise these surveys are only used to justify changes already decided and ignore em....sorry of you have given feedback in the past but did you really think the club was listening?
Otter otter asked about Feb renewals and vouchers....again..nothing to do with site staff....we just took the blame and grief when folks turned up on site

Ezzrider commented on our club forum....well if you have been on it you will have an idea , I would say that it's common for awkward posts for the club to be locked after being deluged by silly posts between a few regular writers......very convenient. Check out the " had enough " post on sites to see what I mean

Finally for now
Studio asked if we were trailing a new pitch marking system........God help us if we do.....more the folk to get wrong and run over

Next up the greatest event on club sites for staff
Selection
All site staff have been consulted about next year and within a week we should all know via a huge spreadsheet where everyone is going to work next year

selection is the main event on our calender and this year will be extra interesting for us as heaps of experienced wardens have scarpered and will need replacing

Get those job applications in quickly
bye for now
Oldwarden




 
Stevieb said:
I do think that any comments regarding the CAMC should not be posted here. They are just one persons interpretation and could be misread by people.
Click to expand...
Most posts on here are one person’s interpretation. If you start censoring topics (apart from politics) it could become a slippery road.

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stevewagner said:
Most posts on here are one person’s interpretation. If you start censoring topics (apart from politics) it could become a slippery road.
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I’m sure no one would stop any official from CAMC coming on here and putting the record straight….. although they are strangely silent🤭. People take what they want from people’s contributions, censoring threads (other than outright offensive material and breaches of rules) would be a dangerous route to take.
 
Surely this is a forum, a place for discussion not censorship!?

I’m sorry but there has been too much hurt in this world caused by banning conversations about things because someone may not agree with the content.

there are libel and defamation laws for instances where they are needed and people need to be aware / had a friendly PM to tell them they are getting too close to the bone and moderation where things become insulting against individuals and members.

I’m a paid member of CAMC and whilst I may not agree with all the comments, I do find it interesting where my money is going or not And how people employed using my money are treated. I am an adult and can make my own decisions as to how much credence I give the statements.

what I don’t want, again being a paid member of THIS community (MF), is to have censure of this type. Seen enough of that in my life and i’d be off.

So far, MF has been a very open and comfortable area to be part of. Where discussions have become ‘nasty’ or inappropriate, they have been stopped point blank by Jim and I applaud his application of moderator duties andI have found the balance appropriate.
 
Oldwarden said:
sorry of you have given feedback in the past but did you really think the club was listening?
Click to expand...
Yes I do think they listen and gather evidence in support of change. I can think of a few changes that have been made in the past, the booking system for a start which has been evolving over the years in response to complaints (introduction of cancellation rules and the rolling system spring to mind) and would now appear to heading for the introduction of deposits. Some changes may well have happened without the complaints but if nothing else they make the Club think about change.
ezee
 
Popeye said:
That was JaG , Jean and Graham, pretty sure they're still active, hope so anyway!
Click to expand...
Hi Popeye,
Oh yes, we are not only active...we have resigned from caravanners and now have an Autotrail Cheyenne 740SE. We don't run rallies any more, just attend them and let others do the work, lol.
Good to see you still 'alive and kicking'. We have put off Europe until September 2022, then hope to spend a few months out there. Until then we do rallies with MotorhomeFun and MCC. Still doing around 100 nights a year out.
 
chaser said:
Speaking about twin lakes, there used to be a couple on here , think they were from derby way, who arranged meets there for charity, has anyone any idea what happened to them ,are they still on here, are they still doing meets?
Click to expand...
Oh yes, we are not only active...we have resigned from caravanners and now have an Autotrail Cheyenne 740SE. We don't run rallies any more, just attend them and let others do the work, lol.
Good to see you still 'alive and kicking'. We have put off Europe until September 2022, then hope to spend a few months out there. Until then we do rallies with MotorhomeFun and MCC. Still doing around 100 nights a year out.

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Oldwarden said:
Hello again
Just a few answers to more questions asked

Shark fighter had issues with the rebrand and name change and that members were not consulted.
Site staff were also not consulted and knew about it at the same time as members

Mike Manning asked about the club selling land for other developments

Yes of course. But a major change is the club giving up the lease on leased sites and buying big mega sites suited to pods,chalets,bars and clubs.

Spawn e git asked about the clubs response to good/bad feedback.....they ignore Google and the club site reviews. They email recent guests with a survey after stays sometimes and we see a choice selection of replays every quarter....we realise these surveys are only used to justify changes already decided and ignore em....sorry of you have given feedback in the past but did you really think the club was listening?
Otter otter asked about Feb renewals and vouchers....again..nothing to do with site staff....we just took the blame and grief when folks turned up on site

Ezzrider commented on our club forum....well if you have been on it you will have an idea , I would say that it's common for awkward posts for the club to be locked after being deluged by silly posts between a few regular writers......very convenient. Check out the " had enough " post on sites to see what I mean

Finally for now
Studio asked if we were trailing a new pitch marking system........God help us if we do.....more the folk to get wrong and run over

Next up the greatest event on club sites for staff
Selection
All site staff have been consulted about next year and within a week we should all know via a huge spreadsheet where everyone is going to work next year

selection is the main event on our calender and this year will be extra interesting for us as heaps of experienced wardens have scarpered and will need replacing

Get those job applications in quickly
bye for now
Oldwarden
Click to expand...
So did you fair well from the recent selection or has it not happened yet?
 
jockaneezer said:
In my experience, parachuting "managers" into jobs that they have no direct experience in rarely ends up well. We had a boss at work who said "I don't need to know the process, I only need to know how to manage my staff", I think he had an Honours Degree in Arrogance !
He was one of the worst people I have ever worked under and he was useless at "managing".
Click to expand...

Been there. Grifters with huge egos and the gift of the gab job hopping for even bigger pay packages, always spouting trendy gobbledegook. They never stay in one place very long and usually leave a trail of destruction.

Allegedly transferable management skills are not nearly enough on their own. You need to understand everything about the organisation you are joining and its culture, and that normally takes years of experience.
 
SpeedyDux said:
Been there. Grifters with huge egos and the gift of the gab job hopping for even bigger pay packages, always spouting trendy gobbledegook. They never stay in one place very long and usually leave a trail of destruction.
Click to expand...
How true that is.
As the saying goes...........'Bullsh*t baffles brains'.
I saw that happen first-hand on three occasions with Ivy League marketing and sales whizz-kids in 5 years with an American multinational conglomerate, comprising (among others) Dart Oil, Kraft Foods, Gillette, Duracell............
Plus consultants; people who who borrow your watch and then charge to tell you the time.
 
SpeedyDux said:
Allegedly transferable management skills are not nearly enough on their own. You need to understand everything about the organisation you are joining and its culture, and that normally takes years of experience.
Click to expand...
E.g. the constant shuffling of Gov't ministers from one unrelated dep't to another.
 
The frontline workers always get the flack - if management left their desks and rolled their sleeves up…..Added to this is the upper echelons, executive, trustees, chairpersons who like status and often do more harm than good.
Maybe the machine has now outgrown the sum of its parts.
On a more positive note Three Cheers for Cirencester. Wardens fantastic.

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My Dad was the Chair of the North Essex Caravan Club. Me, I liked the Caravan Club members, and the sites looked great, but I could not stay a whole night on one.

Welcome to your new life of camping for fun :)
 
Managers/executives - must always fail otherwise why would the next new guy get the job based on the 'radical changes to improve the company' he has sold to the human remains dept at the job interview.
 
NorthernSoul said:
But a deposit system is a complication to solve a problem that perhaps doesn't exist.

Achieving high utilisation is something to concern CAMC. Even at busy times on the most popular sites 100% utilisation is unlikely to be achieved. Indeed it may not be desirable to do so. Perhaps CAMC would publish some figures for actual utilisation and cancellations so that we can see if it really is an issue. The popular CAMC sites that I've been on the last couple of years have looked pretty full to me.

The problem of "I want to go away next month and there's nothing available at the one site I want to go to" is a user problem. I don't see why all members need the added complication of deposits to fix that.
Click to expand...
The last couple of CAMC sites we were on had at least one pitch that was not in use. One example was due to the EHU socket not functioning, even though the wardens had called out a local sparks to try to fix it. Aiming for 100% occupancy isn't feasible in the real world.

Just to be clear I like the flexibility of the current booking system although I don't need to cancel or amend a booking very often it is nice to be able to do that without the complication of maybe losing a deposit.
 
Oldwarden said:
Hello again
Just a few answers to more questions asked

Shark fighter had issues with the rebrand and name change and that members were not consulted.
Site staff were also not consulted and knew about it at the same time as members

Mike Manning asked about the club selling land for other developments

Yes of course. But a major change is the club giving up the lease on leased sites and buying big mega sites suited to pods,chalets,bars and clubs.

Spawn e git asked about the clubs response to good/bad feedback.....they ignore Google and the club site reviews. They email recent guests with a survey after stays sometimes and we see a choice selection of replays every quarter....we realise these surveys are only used to justify changes already decided and ignore em....sorry of you have given feedback in the past but did you really think the club was listening?
Otter otter asked about Feb renewals and vouchers....again..nothing to do with site staff....we just took the blame and grief when folks turned up on site

Ezzrider commented on our club forum....well if you have been on it you will have an idea , I would say that it's common for awkward posts for the club to be locked after being deluged by silly posts between a few regular writers......very convenient. Check out the " had enough " post on sites to see what I mean

Finally for now
Studio asked if we were trailing a new pitch marking system........God help us if we do.....more the folk to get wrong and run over

Next up the greatest event on club sites for staff
Selection
All site staff have been consulted about next year and within a week we should all know via a huge spreadsheet where everyone is going to work next year

selection is the main event on our calender and this year will be extra interesting for us as heaps of experienced wardens have scarpered and will need replacing

Get those job applications in quickly
bye for now
Oldwarden
Click to expand...

I was wondering about the CAMC's introduction of pods (and perhaps lodges) etc. Apart from a way to make use of that awkward very small pitch in the corner, the only justification that I find acceptable is to provide separate accommodation for family and friends of Members who want to join them but don't have a caravan or MH. Otherwise, it doesn't fit my expectations of the Club. If I wanted to stay at somewhere like Haven with rows of statics and a Clubhouse, that's where I would go and wouldn't bother with the CAMC. It feels like the direction of travel of the Club will become less touring-friendly.
 
SpeedyDux said:
I was wondering about the CAMC's introduction of pods (and perhaps lodges) etc. Apart from a way to make use of that awkward very small pitch in the corner, the only justification that I find acceptable is to provide separate accommodation for family and friends of Members who want to join them but don't have a caravan or MH. Otherwise, it doesn't fit my expectations of the Club. If I wanted to stay at somewhere like Haven with rows of statics and a Clubhouse, that's where I would go and wouldn't bother with the CAMC. It feels like the direction of travel of the Club will become less touring-friendly.
Click to expand...
I find it hard to believe any survey of members who regularly use the club sites would suggest a demand for pods and lodges. To be cost effective they must be expecting to attract those who do not embrace the “camping” ethos. These guests will probably have a very different set of expectations during their holiday. I can see a new set of issues for the wardens. In France many sites have turned over a large number of pitches to Mobil homes and the whole atmosphere changes. I hope the CAMC limits this development, otherwise I for one will seriously consider whether I retain my membershi.

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