Current U.K. law on up plating has been changed WITHOUT consultation

[Jonno1103]

Current U.K. law on up plating has been changed WITHOUT consultation.

When up plating from 3500kg RFL will continue to be £365 pa. IT IS NOT being reduced to the PHG rate of £165.

Secondly, the DVLA are no longer changing the V5c to illustrate your new weight. The MTPLM will remain at 3500kg. This means that if your motorhome is detected on road installed Weight In Motion Sensors - WIMS, you WILL be classed as overweight. Currently there is no plan to prosecute although you will receive a letter advising you of weight limits etc.

This legislation is causing a great deal of harm to companies such as SvTech who are currently in constant communication with HMG and it is fully expected to be escalated and discussed on the floor in the House of Commons.

However, one of the reasons why in the short term this is in force is due to the EU's 4th directive and once in place will mean that RFL will illustrate the new entry weight limit. Vans & Moho's will need to be over 4250kg in order to qualify for the reduced RFL.

The Fourth Directive...

The EU will ratify this and it will be in force from January 2025. This means that drivers with post 1997 licences can drive upto 4250kg whether EV or ICE powered. Licences will become digital and some medicals will be self assessment.

Current information from Downing Street strongly suggests that the U.K.'s original stance was to also adopt this following an announcement during the March 2025 budget. The U.K. has historically adopted the first 3 directives and will also adopt No4.

There is now however a strong suggestion that this will be announced during the late October budget and will be in place for newly registered motohomes from March 1st.

This is of course still to be confirmed.

 

[L' Hobo]

So insurance is required but I doubt they'd bother about road tax.

Mot ? Surely if its roadworthy


Uk insurance though will not admitted you that you are always covered by minimum requirement even if mot had expired

I'm not sure where this belief that one is covered by Third party insurance, even if you are driving illegally comes from.

I thought that one had to sign a document saying one would drive the vehicle in a lawful and roadworthy condition. (If you didn't, surely you are breaking the contract?)

Has anyone got a link to this assumption,?

 

[PaulW2]

I'm not sure where this belief that one is covered by Third party insurance, even if you are driving illegally comes from.

I thought that one had to sign a document saying one would drive the vehicle in a lawful and roadworthy condition. (If you didn't, surely you are breaking the contract?)

Has anyone got a link to this assumption,?

I agree. There must obviously be a breakpoint. So I don't tax or MOT my car, drive on threadbare tyres... At some point in this conversation any private company will turn around and say that wasn't the deal.

I think it's governed by the insurance agreement, including its fine print. Violate it and you're up the creek just as you are for comprehensive insurance.

 

[The Wino]

As you are already above the 3500kgs, it shouldn't but keep us informed please!

I don't think anyone knows what the difference will be between say 4250 and 4500. If they align up to 4250 with 3500 it could be a more desirable limit to go to ( higher speed limits and no additional licence required)

 

[gus-lopez]

If we violate those terms the insurer may decline to pay out. Even if it's only third party insurance.

No they cannot.It is illegal.No matter what you do they have to pay 3rd party claims out.That is the law.They will probably then sue you.

This is why I can never understand why anyone pleads guilty to "having no insurance" ,as long as they have taken it out & paid the premium , as you always have 3rd party ,no matter what.

My argument with them is that Internationally N1 Category is for commercial vehicles up to 3500kg max gross weight and now that the vehicle is up-plated to 4200kg and recognised by them as such it cannot still be an N1 vehicle. They say that the law says they cannot change the Category of a vehicle once it has been registered etc. etc.

It may be that a vehicle originally registered as M1 (which has a higher max gross weight) can have the Taxation Class changed to PHG. Someone previously in this thread posts that this has been done in his case.

You need to be careful that they do not turn around & say that if it applies only to up to 3500kgs that they cannot uprate it above that weight? I really can't see how N1 is 'only to 3500kgs ' as what are all the over 3500kgs vehicles classed as ?

If you're travelling through many countries you can't register it in everyone you travel in.

I did 9 months on.my last trip , 11 months on the first one In 2018

it is 6 months in one country in a 12 months period

That's a good point. So what if the vehicle were sorned, it's not on a UK road, so breakingno law

You are breaking the law just doing that .SORN is only allowed on a vehicle parked off road "in the UK" it cannot be sorned outside.

I'm not sure where this belief that one is covered by Third party insurance, even if you are driving illegally comes from.

It is the original law introduced back in the dark ages & was called "road traffic acts" at the outset. It was to compensate people, buildings, road furniture etc;etc; for any damage that you did. There was never any "full comp" at the outset. Nor was their "fire & theft"

Has anyone got a link to this assumption,?

google road traffic acts/ insurance

I agree. There must obviously be a breakpoint. So I don't tax or MOT my car, drive on threadbare tyres... At some point in this conversation any private company will turn around and say that wasn't the deal.

There isn't The insurance company is legally liable if you have a paid for policy.These days they will sue you & bankrupt you for the payments they had to make.

Here is the RTA original when you could still deposit 15k pounds with the attorney general ,that ended up at 500k but was removed in 2019 ,I believe.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpg...-or-security-against-thirdparty-risks/enacted


You will see at 148; 1 & 2 that there are restrictions for which they will not pay out , as in 148;2 except WHAT IS REQUIRED under the law which is 3rd party costs as stated in 148;3-It then states at 148;4 that any liability that they have to pay to 3rd parties under their legal obligations will be recovered from the policy holder.

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[Northernraider]

I'm not sure where this belief that one is covered by Third party insurance, even if you are driving illegally comes from.

I thought that one had to sign a document saying one would drive the vehicle in a lawful and roadworthy condition. (If you didn't, surely you are breaking the contract?)

Has anyone got a link to this assumption,?

Richard gus-lopez will help . He knows the ins and outs better than me and I'm up to my eyes in generator lol

 

[PaulW2]

No they cannot.It is illegal.No matter what you do they have to pay 3rd party claims out.That is the law.They will probably then sue you.

This is why I can never understand why anyone pleads guilty to "having no insurance" ,as long as they have taken it out & paid the premium , as you always have 3rd party ,no matter what.


You need to be careful that they do not turn around & say that if it applies only to up to 3500kgs that they cannot uprate it above that weight? I really can't see how N1 is 'only to 3500kgs ' as what are all the over 3500kgs vehicles classed as ?

it is 6 months in one country in a 12 months period

You are breaking the law just doing that .SORN is only allowed on a vehicle parked off road "in the UK" it cannot be sorned outside.

It is the original law introduced back in the dark ages & was called "road traffic acts" at the outset. It was to compensate people, buildings, road furniture etc;etc; for any damage that you did. There was never any "full comp" at the outset. Nor was their "fire & theft"

google road traffic acts/ insurance

There isn't The insurance company is legally liable if you have a paid for policy.These days they will sue you & bankrupt you for the payments they had to make.

Here is the RTA original when you could still deposit 15k pounds with the attorney general ,that ended up at 500k but was removed in 2019 ,I believe.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpg...-or-security-against-thirdparty-risks/enacted


You will see at 148; 1 & 2 that there are restrictions for which they will not pay out , as in 148;2 except WHAT IS REQUIRED under the law which is 3rd party costs as stated in 148;3-It then states at 148;4 that any liability that they have to pay to 3rd parties under their legal obligations will be recovered from the policy holder.

There isn't The insurance company is legally liable if you have a paid for policy.These days they will sue you & bankrupt you for the payments they had to make.

Here is the RTA original when you could still deposit 15k pounds with the attorney general ,that ended up at 500k but was removed in 2019 ,I believe.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpg...-or-security-against-thirdparty-risks/enacted


You will see at 148; 1 & 2 that there are restrictions for which they will not pay out , as in 148;2 except WHAT IS REQUIRED under the law which is 3rd party costs as stated in 148;3-It then states at 148;4 that any liability that they have to pay to 3rd parties under their legal obligations will be recovered from the policy holder.

Interesting, thanks

 

[Emmit]

No they cannot.It is illegal.No matter what you do they have to pay 3rd party claims out.That is the law.They will probably then sue you.

This is why I can never understand why anyone pleads guilty to "having no insurance" ,as long as they have taken it out & paid the premium , as you always have 3rd party ,no matter what.


You need to be careful that they do not turn around & say that if it applies only to up to 3500kgs that they cannot uprate it above that weight? I really can't see how N1 is 'only to 3500kgs ' as what are all the over 3500kgs vehicles classed as ?

it is 6 months in one country in a 12 months period

You are breaking the law just doing that .SORN is only allowed on a vehicle parked off road "in the UK" it cannot be sorned outside.

It is the original law introduced back in the dark ages & was called "road traffic acts" at the outset. It was to compensate people, buildings, road furniture etc;etc; for any damage that you did. There was never any "full comp" at the outset. Nor was their "fire & theft"

google road traffic acts/ insurance

There isn't The insurance company is legally liable if you have a paid for policy.These days they will sue you & bankrupt you for the payments they had to make.

Here is the RTA original when you could still deposit 15k pounds with the attorney general ,that ended up at 500k but was removed in 2019 ,I believe.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpg...-or-security-against-thirdparty-risks/enacted


You will see at 148; 1 & 2 that there are restrictions for which they will not pay out , as in 148;2 except WHAT IS REQUIRED under the law which is 3rd party costs as stated in 148;3-It then states at 148;4 that any liability that they have to pay to 3rd parties under their legal obligations will be recovered from the policy holder.

Only in relation to the below comment.
"You are breaking the law just doing that .SORN is only allowed on a vehicle parked off road "in the UK" it cannot be sorned outside"

Whilst I accept that that is what the DVLA say, I've yet to find that piece of legislation written down. I've looked, but I cannot find it
Just because DVLA say it, it doesn't make it Law.

 

[nicholsong]

Only in relation to the below comment.
"You are breaking the law just doing that .SORN is only allowed on a vehicle parked off road "in the UK" it cannot be sorned outside"

Whilst I accept that that is what the DVLA say, I've yet to find that piece of legislation written down. I've looked, but I cannot find it
Just because DVLA say it, it doesn't make it Law.

A quite bright DVLA employee informed me pointedly 'The SORN form does not ask where the vehicle is kept'

 

[L' Hobo]

A quite bright DVLA employee informed me pointedly 'The SORN form does not ask where the vehicle is kept'

But sorn stands for, STATUTORY OFF ROAD NOTIFICATION.

doesn't the statutory bit means it's the law that it MUST be off road?

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[gus-lopez]

Just because DVLA say it, it doesn't make it Law.

Making a SORN

last paragraphhttps://www.gov.uk/sorn-statutory-off-road-notification

 

[Northernraider]

But sorn stands for, STATUTORY OFF ROAD NOTIFICATION.

doesn't the statutory bit means it's the law that it MUST be off road?

Well if its abroad its technically off UK roads ain't it lol.

Be under no illusion the whole thing is just so the UK gov doesn't lose money.
Something I'm sure no one in Europe gives a damm about