Buy British, why not?

[Colinyellowspanner]

Wonder what steel polished up and lacquered would look like. Got to be a better option than the monkey metal alloys

Remember RoStyles? Cortina 1600E, Rover V8, Triumph Stag,etc etc. Sculpted steel, chromed with black highlights. Looked terrific. Why did they disappear?

 

[Coolcats]

Remember RoStyles? Cortina 1600E, Rover V8, Triumph Stag,etc etc. Sculpted steel, chromed with black highlights. Looked terrific. Why did they disappear?

BMW, VW Audi, Honda, Toyota we’re better builds and better finish and in the main did not rust as fast etc etc.

 

[Folkranger]

Fiat has a much bigger market share of base vehicles, but these are converted by scores of manufacturers and sold and 'supported' by hundreds of dealers, which is where many of the problems seem to originate. The california (which is not without problems) is manufactured in house by VW and comes with a standard VW warranty covering the base vehicle and the conversion. It is that approach which I believe would improve quality and service. Whether Fiat/Peugeot/Citroën would set up their own manufacturing or partner with an existing PVC converter I'm not sure but I think it could be good for the consumer.

On the other hand the diversity within the Fiat base range brings the price down to competitive levels with a variety of grades to suit many different customer budgets, unlike the VW "monopoly" which does give quality but at an inflated price and leaves lower budget customers to go elsewhere. I am of the opinion that the quality of motorhomes (and many other products) is mainly influenced by by national quality traits. In the case of the UK quality has been poor in many industries since the 1950s.

 

[wayneewer]

Well a BMW comes with no toys as standard and the Mondeo will get you where you need to go in comparative luxury. By the way, Mondeos are made in Spain. but my point is can anybody justify to me whether they think say German cars and motorhomes are worth some 50% more than British.

I saw a review of a new Hymer which lists at £102k which had extras totalling 40k one of which was a reversing camera

 

[Coolcats]

I saw a review of a new Hymer which lists at £102k which had extras totalling 40k one of which was a reversing camera

Yup but what a build and what quality

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[Colinyellowspanner]

BMW, VW Audi, Honda, Toyota we’re better builds and better finish and in the main did not rust as fast etc etc.

Yes, but they didn’t fit RoStyle (wheels)

 

[EuroTrotters]

I'm actually extremely happy with what I've got, but the point is there is very little choice at the top end of the market from UK manufacturers. IMO the real problem with many sectors in UK is the reluctance to make significant long term investment.

May I ask what base your motorhome is on pleasE?

 

[Coolcats]

Yes, but they didn’t fit RoStyle (wheels)

The Alfa Sud ‘steel’ wheels were as soft as butter they would bend so easily

 

[Richard n Ann]

Remember RoStyles? Cortina 1600E, Rover V8, Triumph Stag,etc etc. Sculpted steel, chromed with black highlights. Looked terrific. Why did they disappear?

Yes i had some but mine were just painted silver and black.. Vauxhall Magnum

PS with chrome ring trims.

 

[jongood]

May I ask what base your motorhome is on pleasE?

MAN L2000 coach chassis.

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[EuroTrotters]

MAN L2000 coach chassis.

Wow nice

 

[Folkranger]

Yup but what a build and what quality

They've done an incredible job of building a quality box out of lightweight materials but there are two amjor failings. 1) the flimsy furniture materials used are good until the screw pull out of the non existent woodwork. 2) They wasted their time trying to make them light (other than as as sales con) as with the extras we view as essential these days it is near impossible to run them under 3.5T so they may as well have used decent materials. Oops I forgot, they did this so they could sell them as sub 3T.

 

[Coolcats]

They've done an incredible job of building a quality box out of lightweight materials but there are two amjor failings. 1) the flimsy furniture materials used are good until the screw pull out of the non existent woodwork. 2) They wasted their time trying to make them light (other than as as sales con) as with the extras we view as essential these days it is near impossible to run them under 3.5T so they may as well have used decent materials. Oops I forgot, they did this so they could sell them as sub 3T.

There are a lot of benefits of composite materials, not least your not chopping down a forest ! Why are you pulling screws out and why do you think it’s a sales con? Good quality furniture does not have to made out of oak.

I can’t disagree that some of the fixtures may seem flimsy but they are still robust enough for there intended purpose and most matériels used in a modern day Motorhome are stable in terms of an accidental flood of water which wood will tend to swell and distort.

I don’t think it’s a con but new materials help keep costs in check, help provide consistent quality.

My neighbour had tenants, who basically wrecked the house the upstairs banister was so loose it would have given way and that was made from solid wood. (along with many other items which were also damaged from misuse ).

 

[MillieMoocher]

We’ve had 2 German vans (Hymer A class) , and now have an Autosleeper PVC

The first Hymer had a leaky garage which was fixed under warranty and also the model suffered from the self-shattering headlights (although we didn’t experience this ourselves I just mention it as an illustration that not all is perfect with German vans).

This was based on a Mercedes as I was convinced the combination of Mercedes and Hymer would be great; however it was a really soggy drive and was very susceptible to side winds and buffering from lorries

The second Fiat based Hymer suffered from a massive water leak due to a poor seal on the joint between the side panel and roof, which allowed water to channel in to the PUAL construction and appear in the garage. The great thing is that due to that construction, it caused water pooling and not damp. This was fixed under warranty.

The screen washers failed as the pressure within the system would cause the pipes to pop off, which was easily fixed with cable ties.

The handles on the cupboards also took on a corroded appearance which were also replaced under warranty.

The Fiats chassis drove much better than the Merc, even the comfortmatic gearbox was great (although the torque converter set up on the first MH was smoother)

The current van has had a problem with the heater since day 1, which has now been replaced under warranty. Additionally the solar panel didn’t work and this was traced down to a connection in the wiring being detached. (I think it had never been connected as snap lock joints don’t come undone on their own)

There are also a number of other things I don’t like about the current van, such as a pathetic fresh and waste water capacity, it’s poor heating set up (lack of outlets, not blown air, location of the heater and water heater taking up space under the bed while other areas which are less accessible would easily accommodate the units). But I knew all this when I bought the van and the key things behind our choice were LAYOUT and PAYLOAD and both these things ticked all the boxes.

I suppose what I’m saying in a round about way is that as far as Motorhomes are concerned, buying British or European doesn’t really make a difference. Neither are flawless, particularly well built, or problem free. Hence when we got the latest MH we went with an open mind, and chose on layout and payload and it just so happened that the one that ticked most boxes was a British make.

Re legendary VW quality, when I was a kid Dad had a Bayfront type 2 Westphalia. That lunched it’s engine by dropping a valve, a well known issue with the 1600.

His next van was also a Type 2 (square shaped) and that set fire to its engine…

 

[Richard Mason]

Still easier to get it fixed in the UK that taking it back to Germany unless you believe that German vans are perfect which in my experience they are not

Well you’d get it fixed by the dealer here I think.

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[two]

Before purchasing my first motorhome, I went round several dealers with large stock (not so easy to do at the moment) and looked inside older models of the type I was after. I was not looking at depreciation in price but in how well they had worn. Most of the Brit vans looked more 'tired' than European ones.

 

[Southdowners]

Well you’d get it fixed by the dealer here I think.

Not possible in every case. Much depends on what the problem is. We've just returned from the manufacturers in Germany after having had work carried out at their premises, work which couldn't be dealt with by the UK dealership.

 

[nicholsong]

I wonder if any manufacturers have thought about producing models for the over 3.5t market which are similar to the under 3.5t but more robust more robust in materials and workmanship. They could give them a different model no./name.

Geoff

 

[funflair]

Well you’d get it fixed by the dealer here I think.

Depends on how competent the dealer is and whether they can do what you want doing

 

[funflair]

Not possible in every case. Much depends on what the problem is. We've just returned from the manufacturers in Germany after having had work carried out at their premises, work which couldn't be dealt with by the UK dealership.

I should have read your post before adding my very similar response.

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[Folkranger]

There are a lot of benefits of composite materials, not least your not chopping down a forest ! Why are you pulling screws out and why do you think it’s a sales con? Good quality furniture does not have to made out of oak.

I can’t disagree that some of the fixtures may seem flimsy but they are still robust enough for there intended purpose and most matériels used in a modern day Motorhome are stable in terms of an accidental flood of water which wood will tend to swell and distort.

I don’t think it’s a con but new materials help keep costs in check, help provide consistent quality.

My neighbour had tenants, who basically wrecked the house the upstairs banister was so loose it would have given way and that was made from solid wood. (along with many other items which were also damaged from misuse ).

I disagree with most of what you have said.
1) My Hymer is not composite materials, it is hollow board and olds screws badly. (the curtain rails which only carry light weight curtains have fallen off due to the screw pulling out of the hollow board.
2) I don't pull the srews out! The flimsy fixtures are not robust enough,
3) The shelves in the cupboards are a single flimsy 2mm skin which sags so I have had to fit supports to hold the shelves up.
4) It is a con when they sell a motorhome with a stated weight of under 3T and without anything other than normal factory extras it weighs over 3.3 Tonnes and therefore cannot be run on a 3.5T license.

I would say that I bought my van for layout, quality and features that I like but they are afr from perfect, just a mile better than most British vans that I've seen.

 

[Bailey58]

My Bailey is 8 years old and nothing has fallen off yet.

 

[Coolcats]

I disagree with most of what you have said.
1) My Hymer is not composite materials, it is hollow board and olds screws badly. (the curtain rails which only carry light weight curtains have fallen off due to the screw pulling out of the hollow board.
2) I don't pull the srews out! The flimsy fixtures are not robust enough,
3) The shelves in the cupboards are a single flimsy 2mm skin which sags so I have had to fit supports to hold the shelves up.
4) It is a con when they sell a motorhome with a stated weight of under 3T and without anything other than normal factory extras it weighs over 3.3 Tonnes and therefore cannot be run on a 3.5T license.

I would say that I bought my van for layout, quality and features that I like but they are afr from perfect, just a mile better than most British vans that I've seen.

That’s fine to disagree even the N&B from what I can tell has similar composite materials, it’s the modern world and never going back to solid wood, I don’t think it’s a sales con people want to drive a MoHo under 3.5T so there has to be a compromise

 

[Coolcats]

My Bailey is 8 years old and nothing has fallen off yet.

Our lowly Hymer PVC conversion has not had anything fall off or screws pulling out in over 3 years either

 

[funflair]

I disagree with most of what you have said.
1) My Hymer is not composite materials, it is hollow board and olds screws badly. (the curtain rails which only carry light weight curtains have fallen off due to the screw pulling out of the hollow board.
2) I don't pull the srews out! The flimsy fixtures are not robust enough,
3) The shelves in the cupboards are a single flimsy 2mm skin which sags so I have had to fit supports to hold the shelves up.
4) It is a con when they sell a motorhome with a stated weight of under 3T and without anything other than normal factory extras it weighs over 3.3 Tonnes and therefore cannot be run on a 3.5T license.

I would say that I bought my van for layout, quality and features that I like but they are afr from perfect, just a mile better than most British vans that I've seen.

I think you will find a lot of composite material in any van including Hymers, "A composite material is a combination of two materials with different physical and chemical properties" so a fibreboard as a combination of fibre and resin/glue is a composite material and there are many other examples right through to Epoxy/Carbon fibre (not much of this in your average van though) or GRP (glass reinforced plastic).

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[mitzimad]

And there is a reason why a VW transporter is a desirable vehicle, comfy drives well and well built. Small enough to be used and parked on a drive not overly tall or long it’s about as perfect a van as you can buy. Also it has that camper icon lifestyle status that other vans do not have.

Maybe all this is just shallow nonsense but you pays your money and takes your choice. Mine has increased in price over the past two years.

Whilst they are great vans that drive like a car unlike the lotus it understeers when cornering which can be disconcerting….then I remember it’s just a van

if your driving a van fast enough to know its over or understeering you really need to look at you driving style as either mean you loosing grip

 

[Coolcats]

if your driving a van fast enough to know its over or understeering you really need to look at you driving style as either mean you loosing grip

Not quite, your correct in that if there is slippage the vehicle is understeering but when comparing the trajectory of the vehicle compared to another for a given 'turn in' you can use the same terminology the VW definitely understeers compared to the lotus even at a lower velocity.........just have to remind myself which vehicle im driving, if I was driving the Lotus in the same way as the transporter it would be oversteering even at Van speeds ....Edited to say I have another quick vehicle that has a lightweight flywheel, the engine is slightly tuned the thing won't work unless the engine temperature is at least 40c you have to feed power all the time come off the loud peddle to quickly and the back will be where the front should be if its damp or wet. So on that one you feed the power or your on the brakes, the engine braking is fierce enough that people think your brake lights are not working.

 

[nicholsong]

That’s fine to disagree even the N&B from what I can tell has similar composite materials, it’s the modern world and never going back to solid wood, I don’t think it’s a sales con people want to drive a MoHo under 3.5T so there has to be a compromise

I think composite materials are OK, particularly carbon-fibre but they have to use different fixings.

At N&B, despite advertising Smove and iSmove at MIRO under 3.5t, the then senior salesman Jurgen Bath(since retired) told us to our face we do not sell a MH under 3.5t, because I think he was taking into account extras like awnings etc. and knew they are not viable at 3.5t. The question was asked by my other half who likes our N&B quality but is resisting taking her C1 licence.

Geoff

 

[Coolcats]

I think composite materials are OK, particularly carbon-fibre but they have to use different fixings.

At N&B, despite advertising Smove and iSmove at MIRO under 3.5t, the then senior salesman Jurgen Bath(since retired) told us to our face we do not sell a MH under 3.5t, because I think he was taking into account extras like awnings etc. and knew they are not viable at 3.5t. The question was asked by my other half who likes our N&B quality but is resisting taking her C1 licence.

Geoff

Thats a fair comment as it is pushing the boundaries to be under 3.5T I have seen the iSmooth and quite like it. I also get why some may think its too flimsy.

 

[jongood]

I disagree with most of what you have said.
1) My Hymer is not composite materials, it is hollow board and olds screws badly. (the curtain rails which only carry light weight curtains have fallen off due to the screw pulling out of the hollow board.
2) I don't pull the srews out! The flimsy fixtures are not robust enough,
3) The shelves in the cupboards are a single flimsy 2mm skin which sags so I have had to fit supports to hold the shelves up.
4) It is a con when they sell a motorhome with a stated weight of under 3T and without anything other than normal factory extras it weighs over 3.3 Tonnes and therefore cannot be run on a 3.5T license.

I would say that I bought my van for layout, quality and features that I like but they are afr from perfect, just a mile better than most British vans that I've seen.

if you must have a Hymer Buy yourself an old style S800, built like a brick outhouse.

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