Are you allowed in the outside lane of a motorway?

[TheMobileWanderer]

What I find annoying when driving a lorry is the mega milers doing 45mph in the middle lane, rolling road block.

The basic driving test is imv pathetically poor. Everyone should have to sit in a HGV to be aware of the difficulties such drivers face repeatedly, daily, so they know not to sit in middle lane at stupid mph. If they won't speed up to avoid obstructing an HGV, in my world that should earn them an ticket.

 

[Nigel P]

Peace of cake if you have mastered the Swindon Magic Roundabout

View attachment 1020693

Many times. Taking a coach round it always seemed easiest to just follow the outermost route rather than trying to negotiate all the smaller ones, at 42ft it was tricky trying not to block adjoining lanes at each junction.

 

[stewartwebr]

Many times. Taking a coach round it always seemed easiest to just follow the outermost route rather than trying to negotiate all the smaller ones, at 42ft it was tricky trying not to block adjoining lanes at each junction.

The few times I have used it I always have no idea how I got on and off and what rules I broke. Thankfully, no longer living in that area

 

[TheMobileWanderer]

I've never seen or heard of a 3 lane DUAL carriageway, contradiction in terms....three and dual, dual meaning two.

Dual refers to the separate carriageways, i.e. the two each side of a central reservation/medial divide. That's not to be confused with the number of lanes.

 

[TheMobileWanderer]

When I took my test in about 1963, one of the examiners questions was, " when can you overtake on the left" to which I replied " On a one-way street and when the car in front is stationary and signalling to turn right".
"Correct" he said! ( I had been warned it was one of his favourite questions.)

What's a Motorway if it's not a one-way road?

It may seem to be a one-way 'street' but both the one-way street and a motorway are defined in the Road Traffic Act. A motorway is therefore not a one-way street.

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[TheMobileWanderer]

I think a few of you need to do a speed awareness course. Like what I did. Came out still confused.

Seems like some need to re-sit their test.
The only limits that a normal driver needs to know are those that apply to the vehicle they're driving. The Police are the one's who need to know the various elements that determine it for all vehicles. On a motorway, they will know (plod is a different breed from traffic enforcement), and they aren't afraid to show it.

 

[TheMobileWanderer]

can someone point me in the direction of the legislation thats says trailers are not allowed in the outside lane of a 3 or more lane highway please as this is a constant e of debate in our office and ive also asked traffic police to verify it and I havnt found 1 that can prove it im sure the legislation covers motorways ie roads wuth blue signage not normal roads with green signage.

Google 'Road Traffic Act' England. Substitute region as appropriate. Eg Scotland/NI.

The highway code might help too.

 

[TheMobileWanderer]

How about 3 lane dual carriageways? Are the rules different? I know 3.5t + are limited to 60mph, but can you still use the 3rd lane ?

You know?
Actually, 3.5t can do 70mph on a motorway. They are also allowed in the overtaking lane if they are not required to be fitted with a speed limiter and aren't towing.

 

[TheMobileWanderer]

As far as I am aware, undertaking IS NOT ILLEGAL, however, if by your actions you are involved in a RTC, (Road Traffic Crash), the Highway Code can be used in a court of law to apportion blame.

It is an offence to overtake on the left except in certain circumstances.

The highway code is not law and so would not be used in Court. The Road Traffic Act is the law that is referred to in court.

The highway code is a simplistic explanation of what drivers should or should not do. It's incumbent on every driver to know how they should drive the vehicle they are behind the wheel of.

If they don't know or think they can argue a variation, just for them or because they think they know better or think the law should be different, they can argue it and they can do so in court.

Little point arguing with a police officer because it may simply invite that cop, to examine the whole vehicle. That may involve a delay whilst they get things organised to require the vehicle to be taken to a weighbridge and weighed. It may involve the roof being examined for anything that could be considered insecure.

All in all, it could ruin a drivers happiness, if that were to result in them missing a ferry.

 

[TheMobileWanderer]

Your not being controversial Jock but your not answering my question and it seems no one knows the answer

Is the answer not in the highway code? Have you googled the Road Traffic Act?

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[TheMobileWanderer]

Not many motorways have 25% (1 in 4) gradients

It's kind of a moot point. If someone gets reported for speeding and tries to argue the sat nav showed they weren't, they'll have no defence. It's not recognised as a speed measuring device for the purpose of the Road Traffic Act.

 

[Carpmart]

All I know is that if I’m doing 60-65 mph on a motorway and someone is to the right of me in lanes 2/3/4 and have no intentions of following the Highway Code, I proceed in my lane which is at that point moving faster than their lane…. Gotta be safer than me moving from lane one to two to three (to four) and back again.

Poor lane discipline is the reason UK motorways flow so terribly…

We should have all motorway speed cameras repurposed and focused purely on this!

 

[bigtwin]

It's not recognised as a speed measuring device for the purpose of the Road Traffic Act.

Neither is a speedometer, what’s your point?

Would I be correct in saying that you are, or were, a serving occifer?

Ian

 

[jongood]

You know?
Actually, 3.5t can do 70mph on a motorway. They are also allowed in the overtaking lane if they are not required to be fitted with a speed limiter and aren't towing.

Ive liked this because I'm pretty sure you meant to say over 3.5t?

 

[jongood]

Seems like some need to re-sit their test.
The only limits that a normal driver needs to know are those that apply to the vehicle they're driving. The Police are the one's who need to know the various elements that determine it for all vehicles. On a motorway, they will know (plod is a different breed from traffic enforcement), and they aren't afraid to show it.

I'm a big fan of re-testing, Imho a rolling 10 year assessment of every driving class would make a much bigger difference to road safety than 20mph limits.

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[dunnah01]

I'm hoping a lot of posters on here are just being facetious.

 

[The Wino]

GPS measures your speed along the surface of the earth. Strictly speaking it is only truly accurate if you’re travelling along a level road; it’s less accurate if you’re travelling up or down hill. This is because you are travelling along the hypotenuse of the right angled triangle rather than the base. It’s a small difference: 3% if you’re travelling along a 1 in 4 slope, but different nonetheless.

Is that always true? Our GPS also indicates height it could well be corrected to indicate speed allowing for descent or ascent.

 

[Orion]

You know?
Actually, 3.5t can do 70mph on a motorway. They are also allowed in the overtaking lane if they are not required to be fitted with a speed limiter and aren't towing.

That might apply to goods vehicles but a 3.5t designation has no relevance to motorhomes. Even on a national speed limit dual carriageway my 4.25t is permitted at 70mph.

Speed limits

A limit of 30 miles per hour or 48 kilometres per hour usually applies to all traffic on all roads with street lighting

www.gov.uk

 

[PlacidoD]

I'm a big fan of re-testing, Imho a rolling 10 year assessment of every driving class would make a much bigger difference to road safety than 20mph limits.

I good start would be to make everybody do the online part of the test which includes hazard awareness. I had to do that around 20 years ago to get my full motorcycle licence and found it very useful.

You can do that informally with the sample test here:

Take a practice theory test

Take free official practice theory tests from the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA) for cars, motorcycles, lorries and buses

www.gov.uk

P.S. To re-test us all they would have to stop the appalling practice of get rich-quick merchants pre-booking and hogging all the test slots holding all test candidates to ransom otherwise we would just make them even richer!!!

 

[jongood]

I good start would be to make everybody do the online part of the test which includes hazard awareness. I had to do that around 20 years ago to get my full motorcycle licence and found it very useful.

You can do that informally with the sample test here:

Take a practice theory test

Take free official practice theory tests from the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA) for cars, motorcycles, lorries and buses

www.gov.uk

P.S. To re-test us all they would have to stop the appalling practice of get rich-quick merchants pre-booking and hogging all the test slots holding all test candidates to ransom otherwise we would just make them even richer!!!

Its been discussed on here many times. I favour a refresher course with a driving instructor with further action required for those that failed the course.

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[L' Hobo]

It may seem to be a one-way 'street' but both the one-way street and a motorway are defined in the Road Traffic Act. A motorway is therefore not a one-way street.

I know, it was just a poor example of how road terminology has changed in 60yrs.

Changing the subject back to the OP's original question,
One of the main reasons that I was determined to change DVLA registration on my S/H Murvi PVC, from PLG to Motorcavan back in 2018 was, it gives me a number of benefits.
In my case, it was cheaper vehicle insurance and the same speed limits etc as cars.

This also means I can use the 3 lane of the Motorway! (ULW 3050kgs)
(A 'Van with Windows' means that one HAS to abide by the lower limits)

But, don't take my word for it, purchase April 2025 edition of the MMM magazine and turn to pages 124 - 127. There is a comprehensive article on Weights and Payloads

IF, MMM don't know.......they shouldn't be publishing a magazine that specialises in Motorhomes?

 

[L' Hobo]

It's kind of a moot point. If someone gets reported for speeding and tries to argue the sat nav showed they weren't, they'll have no defence. It's not recognised as a speed measuring device for the purpose of the Road Traffic Act.

What about Dash-Cams, the Police last year asked the public to submit them?

 

[L' Hobo]

That might apply to goods vehicles but a 3.5t designation has no relevance to motorhomes. Even on a national speed limit dual carriageway my 4.25t is permitted at 70mph.

Speed limits

A limit of 30 miles per hour or 48 kilometres per hour usually applies to all traffic on all roads with street lighting

www.gov.uk

You might note that the link you give, only mentions Motorhomes or MotorCaravan.

As the DVLA do not recognise a MotorHOME, let's hope the vehicle is registered as a MotorCaravan and not PHGV or a Van with Windows?

 

[bombero2011]

Isn’t that a caravan?

Yes well spotted it has handles at the back.

 

[Orion]

You might note that the link you give, only mentions Motorhomes or MotorCaravan.

As the DVLA do not recognise a MotorHOME, let's hope the vehicle is registered as a MotorCaravan and not PHGV or a Van with Windows?

Well my Adria is both a PHGV and a Motor Caravan according to the V5, so no issues there.

As for the ‘Van With (Side) Windows’ registration, have a look at post #2 and the letter from DVLA to Oldrat that deals with it being the same as a motorhome for speed limit purposes provided certain criteria are met:

Speed limits for a campervan classed as Van with Side windows ..

I recently posted the my Fiat Ducato Timberland PVC was incorrectly registered as a panel van. I applied to the DVLA to have it changed to Motor Caravan, the correct classification. It was rejected and returned classed as Van with Side Windows.. Only just realised, that this has an impact on...

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

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[jongood]

You might note that the link you give, only mentions Motorhomes or MotorCaravan.

As the DVLA do not recognise a MotorHOME, let's hope the vehicle is registered as a MotorCaravan and not PHGV or a Van with Windows?

Ours is body type Motor Caravan and taxation class Private HGV. Asfaik this is fairly normal for a motorhome>3500kgs

 

[L' Hobo]

I suppose, it's like many other things, it takes a test case and court (+ usually a serious accident) to decide who's right or wrong.

One must always remember, never mind what other people write (just like the Highway Code that is only an ADVISORY document) it's a Judges that make the final decisions and the driver, ultimately, responsible.

 

[L' Hobo]

Well my Adria is both a PHGV and a Motor Caravan according to the V5, so no issues there.

As for the ‘Van With (Side) Windows’ registration, have a look at post #2 and the letter from DVLA to Oldrat that deals with it being the same as a motorhome for speed limit purposes provided certain criteria are met:

Speed limits for a campervan classed as Van with Side windows ..

I recently posted the my Fiat Ducato Timberland PVC was incorrectly registered as a panel van. I applied to the DVLA to have it changed to Motor Caravan, the correct classification. It was rejected and returned classed as Van with Side Windows.. Only just realised, that this has an impact on...

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

View attachment 1020766

I had a look at post #2 and all it reads is 'its a caravan,'.?

I also read the letter and IF they ARE all classed the same, why are they not registered the same.

As I said above, the proof of what the vehicle is, falls on the owner when they are involved in an accident or some other circumstance, not the DVLA unless it's written on the V5!

 

[Gaza1515]

Yet coach's are allowed in lane 3.
I've been passed by national express many times.

I with draw that comment, but I stand by being overtaken by them in lane 3.

You must have been hogging lane 2 then. Coaches do 60 mph max. Perhaps you should have been in lane one.

 

[Brains]

All I know is that if I’m doing 60-65 mph on a motorway and someone is to the right of me in lanes 2/3/4 and have no intentions of following the Highway Code, I proceed in my lane which is at that point moving faster than their lane…. Gotta be safer than me moving from lane one to two to three (to four) and back again.

Poor lane discipline is the reason UK motorways flow so terribly…

We should have all motorway speed cameras repurposed and focused purely on this!

I move from lane one to lane two
Flash lights
Move from lane two to lane three
Accelerate
Move from lane three to lane one.
All with full indication in advance.

If every one did that manoeuvre (as they do in Germany, Austria etc.)
Middle Lane hoggers very soon get the message

I also make a point of blocking off undertakers, by measuring my speed to theirs.
At normal motorway speeds undertaking is dangerous, rude, bad driving, and implies the the undertaker needs a driving awareness course as a minimum.

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