Are you allowed in the outside lane of a motorway?

[JockandRita]

The highway code is not law and so would not be used in Court. The Road Traffic Act is the law that is referred to in court.

The Traffic Officer at the time did not state that the Highway Code was law, but he did advise that aspects of it did relate to law, and that the Highway Code could be used to apportion blame.

The highway code is a simplistic explanation of what drivers should or should not do. It's incumbent on every driver to know how they should drive the vehicle they are behind the wheel of.

I"d go even further than that, inasmuch that every driver should know the rules regarding other vehicles they share the roads with. It is not suffice that because someone only drives a car under 3500Kgs, that he/she is not aware why that HGV in front is only travelling at up to 50Mph, or up to 40Mph in Scotland, or why it has indicated left but has moved over to the right .................before making it's turn.
The drivng standards amongst drivers of smaller vehicles in this county is often atrocious, with many liking themselves to Lewis Hamilton behind the wheel.

Little point arguing with a police officer because it may simply invite that cop, to examine the whole vehicle. That may involve a delay whilst they get things organised to require the vehicle to be taken to a weighbridge and weighed. It may involve the roof being examined for anything that could be considered insecure.

I would only expect a decent Traffic Officer to do so with proper justification, rather than through bastardisation, especially where a lack of responsibility by the driver was clearly evident. I'd say the latter would be considered fair game.

We all get things wrong at times, including Police/Traffic Officers, ie, I once had an Officer tell me that I was not permitted on that particular route with my 53 x seater PSV, as it was a 7.5T weight restricted route. What the Officer failed to recognise that A.... it was a bus route, and B.... it was a Goods Vehicle weight restriction with buses and coaches exempt.
I also had one front seat passenger try to report me for going through a No Entry Restriction. She clearly failed to read the sign underneath, clearly stating, "Except Buses and Coaches".

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[Carpmart]

I move from lane one to lane two
Flash lights
Move from lane two to lane three
Accelerate
Move from lane three to lane one.
All with full indication in advance.

If every one did that manoeuvre (as they do in Germany, Austria etc.)
Middle Lane hoggers very soon get the message

I also make a point of blocking off undertakers, by measuring my speed to theirs.
At normal motorway speeds undertaking is dangerous, rude, bad driving, and implies the the undertaker needs a driving awareness course as a minimum.

I’m in a 7T motorhome and can’t be arsed to do all that!

I don’t feel as if I need the driving awareness course you mention - I’m very aware of what I’m doing, it’s the numpties driving in a variety of lanes rather than the left (which is for driving in unless overtaking) who need the education and enforcement.…

I’m also not undertaking, I’m overtaking at below the speed limit as my lane is progressing faster than the numpties lane!

 

[antonyh1952]

Im 3850 kg so I don’t believe I am allowed in the outside lane of a three lane highway .

You are, but over 3050kg mass in service (Section Q on your logbook) , you are subject to van speed limits which are 60mph

 

[Grummyb]

At normal motorway speeds undertaking is dangerous, rude, bad driving, and implies the the undertaker needs a driving awareness course as a minimum.

if im in the lorry im limited to 56mph and at 23 tonne empty it takes a while to get back upto that speed so if some pillock is sat in the middle lane at 50 mph im going to undertake him and invariably they dont realise what there doing is wrong because they still sit there after ive gone past

 

[JockandRita]

if im in the lorry im limited to 56mph and at 23 tonne empty it takes a while to get back upto that speed so if some pillock is sat in the middle lane at 50 mph im going to undertake him and invariably they dont realise what there doing is wrong because they still sit there after ive gone past

Agreed, as you've got more chance of being caught and done for overtaking in the third lane, than you have for gradually overtaking in the left lane.
I'm not saying it's right, but I know exactly the situation you describe, and a manoeuvre which you feel forced into making.
Ask the average driver what is meant by the term "timed drops", and they wouldn't have a clue, yet seem to think it is okay to unduly hinder others.

Jock.

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[TheMobileWanderer]

Ive liked this because I'm pretty sure you meant to say over 3.5t?

Yes, I did mean 3.5t+
Thanks for picking up on the error.

 

[TheMobileWanderer]

Neither is a speedometer, what’s your point?

Would I be correct in saying that you are, or were, a serving occifer?

Ian

The speedometer is manufactured to be accurate to within specific mph tolerances, whereas the sat nav isn't. People can choose to use whatever speed measuring device they wish to but it dismays me that some people seem happy to be led by the blind.

Re your question; neither. I've done what I think anyone should do and read up on it. Much better, imv, to get it from source than from somewhere else or someone else who's no less ropey than they are.

 

[Grummyb]

reference speedo,s im not sure where i got the info from (a speed awarenes course i think) but vehicle manufacturers delibereatly calibrate the speedo so it reads lower than actual speed so they cant be prosecuted where cases involing excess speed are in court

 

[TheMobileWanderer]

reference speedo,s im not sure where i got the info from (a speed awarenes course i think) but vehicle manufacturers delibereatly calibrate the speedo so it reads lower than actual speed so they cant be prosecuted where cases involing excess speed are in court

The speedometer is manufactured to be accurate to (I think) 10%. That's partly why 10% +2mph is 'a thing', a perceived threshold, below which people won't be stopped. Eg, in a 50mph zone, that would be 50 + 5 (10%) + 2mph = 57mph.

I don't recall why 2mph is factored in. It's not always factored in. If we're over the limit, we're over.

 

[Conniedriving]

Im 3850 kg so I don’t believe I am allowed in the outside lane of a three lane highway .

Think if your under 7,5 tonnes your ok

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[Lizbiebrowne]

Is that always true? Our GPS also indicates height it could well be corrected to indicate speed allowing for descent or ascent.

That's an interesting point. I assume that the GPS system is measuring the time taken to move between two latitude and longitude coordinates and since they're at sea level there would be no compensation for height change. But I can't be sure.

 

[Andrew James]

You are, but over 3050kg mass in service (Section Q on your logbook) , you are subject to van speed limits which are 60mph

I think you will find it’s the unladen weight that has to be under 3050kg not the mass in service. The mass in service includes a 90% fuel load and a 75kg allowance for the driver neither of which are included in the unladen weight. Unfortunately the unladen weight is not recorded anywhere………..

 

[TheMobileWanderer]

I"d go even further than that, inasmuch that every driver should know the rules regarding other vehicles they share the roads with. It is not suffice that because someone only drives a car under 3500Kgs, that he/she is not aware why that HGV in front is only travelling at up to 50Mph, or up to 40Mph in Scotland, or why it has indicated left but has moved over to the right .................before making it's turn.
The drivng standards amongst drivers of smaller vehicles in this county is often atrocious, with many liking themselves to Lewis Hamilton behind the wheel.

[/QUOTE]
Yes, I agree and had tunnel vision when I wrote that. There's too many people generally, who are focused on what others do and, imv, instead of picking up on those others' driving habits they should leave the monitoring of others to their dashcam and the police. They should concentrate on their own.

That's different from knowing how to read the road and to drive safely. For that, we need to know the big guys have difficulties and restrictions which sometimes require extra tolerance. Speed limits, wide swings on turning and longer braking distances. I'm amazed with how frequently I see people changing lanes and moving in front of a HGV giving that driver much less distance to stop. They basically pulled into his braking distance.

One of my brothers drives HGVs and well, i couldnt do it. I would have front and rear dash cams to bring a new meaning to the term, 'spy in the cab'.

 

[Paddlers]

We're a 3850 limit van but I rely on our Garmin Camper for the speed restrictions and speed readouts . It certainly does the 50/60 or 70 with regard to dual carriageway or motorway speed limits .
I do nip into the outside lane of three when overtaking the middle lane crawlers be it lorries or hoggers but to be honest most of the time we're happy trundling at 60 is with the lorries. Gets decent mpg too.

 

[JockandRita]

I'm amazed with how frequently I see people changing lanes and moving in front of a HGV giving that driver much less distance to stop. They basically pulled into his braking distance.

Nutters on a death wish, who neither know nor care about anyone else on the road. And if anything serious happens, the finger of blame is immediately pointed at the more experienced driver, ie, the HGV driver. I am all for dash cams.

One of my brothers drives HGVs and well, i couldnt do it. I would have front and rear dash cams to bring a new meaning to the term, 'spy in the cab'.

Many of the latest Trucks have that factory fitted option available to them.

Cheers,

Jock.

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[EuroTrotters]

what

Excellent question.
I m intrigued as well

Dedicated team focusing on road safety Fatal 5

 

[the1andonly]

The speedometer is manufactured to be accurate to (I think) 10%. That's partly why 10% +2mph is 'a thing', a perceived threshold, below which people won't be stopped. Eg, in a 50mph zone, that would be 50 + 5 (10%) + 2mph = 57mph.

I don't recall why 2mph is factored in. It's not always factored in. If we're over the limit, we're over.

In the days of the Calibrated Smiths Chronograph as fitted to my Norton Interpol (ex plod) the Limit was +-10% @30mph ie still 3mph @70mph not 77. There was was a safety device promoted by AMADL Association of Motorcyclists against anti discriminatory legistration (possible later called MAD that may be more effective at reducing accidents (rather than injuries) by replacing steering wheel airbags with a 6 inch spike. A real safety device.

 

[bigtwin]

The speedometer is manufactured to be accurate to within specific mph tolerances, whereas the sat nav isn't.

Indeed, the speedometer is designed specifically to be inaccurate, that is not the case with a sat nav.
The calculation undertaken by a sat nav is inherently accurate, save for minor rounding errors. As we all know global positioning by satellite is accurate to a few metres so any errors arising from this aspect of the calculation will be minescule. In fact, a Google search reveals that GPS based speed measurement is accurate to better than 0.01 mph. This is better than the resolution of the devices used to present that indication.

Ian

 

[jongood]

Nutters on a death wish, who neither know nor care about anyone else on the road. And if anything serious happens, the finger of blame is immediately pointed at the more experienced driver, ie, the HGV driver. I am all for dash cams.


Many of the latest Trucks have that factory fitted option available to them.

Cheers,

Jock.

One of the factors that contributed to me stopping Jock. They're so close on UK roads that its easy to lose them, especially those that expect traffic on the carriageway They're joining to somehow dissapear. Just not worth the hassle any more.

 

[bigtwin]

I also make a point of blocking off undertakers, by measuring my speed to theirs.

Hmm!

At normal motorway speeds undertaking is dangerous, rude, bad driving, and implies the the undertaker needs a driving awareness course as a minimum.

I rather think that anyone in a position to be ‘undertaken’ might also benefit from a driving awareness course.

Ian

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[Brains]

Hmm!


I rather think that anyone in a position to be ‘undertaken’ might also benefit from a driving awareness course.

Ian

Vehicle in slow lane doing 60mph
Us in middle lane travelling at same speed as vehicle in front, say 65mph, two seconds behind obviously.
Intention is to go to slow lane when passed slower vehicle.

W storms up in slow lane at 70mph, undertakes, cuts across our bows (which means we get a 'vehicle close' audible warning)
and then maybe undertakes or overtakes the vehicle in front.

If I spot the intention to undertake, I'll close the gap if possible.
The undertaker has therefore avoided a meeting with the undertaker.

 

[TheMobileWanderer]

The calculation undertaken by a sat nav is inherently accurate, save for minor rounding errors.

Ian

Lol. Which means sat nav isn’t accurate.
There's a few issues that your argument doesn't acknowledge each of which can mean sat nav is less accurate than that known accuracy of a speedometer.

I'll leave it at that.

 

[bigtwin]

Lol. Which means sat nav isn’t accurate.

What is ‘accurate’? The best that you’ll do is an absolute standard. The next best is a ‘sub standard’. I made no claim that a sat nav is ‘accurate’ only that your belief that a speedometer was more accurate than a sat nav was untrue.

There's a few issues that your argument doesn't acknowledge each of which can mean sat nav is less accurate than that known accuracy of a speedometer.

I'll leave it at that.

I’ll leave it at this:

In fact, a Google search reveals that GPS based speed measurement is accurate to better than 0.01 mph.

Ian

 

[Orion]

Think if your under 7,5 tonnes your ok

Only if the ULW of the Moho is 3050kg or less. That 7.5t figure you’ve picked up on possibly refers to Goods Vehicles which have different speed restrictions?

Speed limits

A limit of 30 miles per hour or 48 kilometres per hour usually applies to all traffic on all roads with street lighting

www.gov.uk

 

[The Wino]

Vehicle in slow lane doing 60mph
Us in middle lane travelling at same speed as vehicle in front, say 65mph, two seconds behind obviously.
Intention is to go to slow lane when passed slower vehicle.

W storms up in slow lane at 70mph, undertakes, cuts across our bows (which means we get a 'vehicle close' audible warning)
and then maybe undertakes or overtakes the vehicle in front.

If I spot the intention to undertake, I'll close the gap if possible.
The undertaker has therefore avoided a meeting with the undertaker.

The weaving in and out lot have been watching too much formula 1. I think all you will do is defer their trip to the undertaker for a short while. Yes sitting in the middle lane is bad practice and shows poor awareness. That being true how stupid would you be to overtake on the side where that person isn't expecting to find another vehicle? Undertaking is against the highway code and shows a certain lack of awareness that driving is not the same as racing

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[cyberyacht]

The worst case of CLOD I came across was over forty years ago southbound on the M6 in the middle of the night. Nothing about at all except a car doing 50 in middle lane. As I approach flashed lights and they moved to nearside lane. I passed and pulled over to nearside and continued. The CLOD then move back into the middle lane.

 

[bigtwin]

The worst case of CLOD I came across was over forty years ago southbound on the M6 in the middle of the night. Nothing about at all except a car doing 50 in middle lane. As I approach flashed lights and they moved to nearside lane. I passed and pulled over to nearside and continued. The CLOD then move back into the middle lane.

Astounding isn’t it.

Ian

 

[Mleabon]

Im 3850 kg so I don’t believe I am allowed in the outside lane of a three lane highway .

I used to think that but because we are allowed to do 70 on a motorway then I think it's fine. I'm 4250kg.

 

[pelican]

Hmm!


I rather think that anyone in a position to be ‘undertaken’ might also benefit from a driving awareness course.

Ian

Disrespectful if they have a load onboard.

 

[JockandRita]

One of the factors that contributed to me stopping Jock. They're so close on UK roads that its easy to lose them, especially those that expect traffic on the carriageway They're joining to somehow dissapear. Just not worth the hassle any more.

jongood. I am genuinely sorry Jon to learn that you are no longer enjoying driving HGVs, though I understand your reasons for withdrawing from it completely. There are so many nutters out there on the roads these days.

It looks like my Class 1 HGV driving days may well be over too Jon, but for different reasons, ie, the Haulier I was working for up until October, advised me that he was looking for someone "more regular", who was also able to cover night shifts. "I don't think that suits you Jock" says he." I replied, "At 67 years of age, you are too right night shifts don't suit me." Gordon bleddy Bennett.

In the meantime, enjoy your lovely MAN based N+B Clou Liner.

Cheers,

Jock.

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