Are the Germans destroying wild camping in Spain?

[Winger]

I think it could be very interesting for a German speaking Brit to go onto a German site to see how they speak about us Brits. It could be very interesting in my eyes.
We just assume that we are the real deal

 

[Northernraider]

At the time of brexit there was a thread about Spain's loss as to the brits coming to the coast of Spain, I said at the time there will be 3 other Europeans waiting to take their place and Spain won’t notice us gone, this winter I have seen the results of this first hand, I mentioned a while back that there seemed to be lots of Germans and indeed the new aire at mazerron which is huge was 99% German.
I’ve seen communities of them along the coast and especially Aguilas, the site I’m on now cap-blanch is full of NL and lots more pitches are becoming permanent pitches…

The amount of Morelos I’ve seen in a muddy lay-by is incredible…

And…. To be honest I’m not feeling it this year and it will probably be my last time here for a winter….

Hence why I'm back in Greece,last year was the first time I'd been back in Spain since 2019 , still love Spain but its very busy to parkup even in winter. With only Morocco to escape to In order to extend the 90 days. Inland Spain will obviously be a bit quieter but it will also be colder.

 

[Northernraider]

As a resident Scot, who motorhomes widely in mainland Europe for 2/3 months annually and the UK year round, the title of this thread and many of the posts strike a loud cord for me for Scotland! I am able to relate to much of what has been said.

Unfortunately in Scotland we also have to live with many ‘tourists‘ from within the UK (including Scotland) and wider, who mistakenly think our publicised ‘Wild Camping’ rights (defined under the Scottish Land Reform Act of 2003) apply to motorhomes, campervans and other vehicles, when indeed no such rights apply. The misunderstanding isn’t helped, by many in our motorhoming fraternity using the term ‘Wild Camping’ (when referring to ‘off road‘, ‘off site’ or ‘off grid’ stops) - which in Scotland has a very specific and clearly defined meaning for access and use of land - be that rough roadside tracks or other ‘wilder’ locations.

The rights for ‘Wild Camping’ in Scotland do NOT apply to vehicles of ANY type, and unfortunately misunderstanding and resultant practices by some add to a growing animosity towards us In this country. This is becoming all too evident in many rural and more remote areas especially (but certainly not only) on the Scottish islands (where my family is from). ANY vehicle parking or stopping overnight on privately owned land in Scotland should have the landowners permission. This also applies to much publicaly owned land also in many cases.

And it was very rarely a problem prior to the last 5-8 years , I spent all my holiday time prior to 2016 off site parking around the North of Scotland and the islands , never once encountering any animosity. But motorhoming and vanlife etc has become increasingly popular. Partly fuelled by the political paths countries have taken. There are way more fulltimers nowadays than there's ever been. The problem will just get worse unfortunately.

 

[Northernraider]

I think it could be very interesting for a German speaking Brit to go onto a German site to see how they speak about us Brits. It could be very interesting in my eyes.
We just assume that we are the real deal

It would be interesting that's for sure.

But I can't say out of any the countries I've ever travelled in that I ever see large quantities of British campers all in groups etc , no communities of brit campers. On campsites maybe there are but I've not seen it on wildspots. And there's definitely not as many huge trucks, busses etc converted by brits parked up right on the beaches etc.

I even saw articulated trucks converted to campers in Spain last year lol .

 

[jumartoo]

I think it could be very interesting for a German speaking Brit to go onto a German site to see how they speak about us Brits. It could be very interesting in my eyes.
We just assume that we are the real deal

I go on Spanish sites and, when they speak about the "guiries", the Germans are being mentioned specifically, more so than any others.

I don't speak German so I wouldn't know what they were saying

We were chatting to a German a week or so ago on the motorhome area of Caravaca (inland Murcia) and he was dismayed at the numbers of Germans at the coast and was keeping away.

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[funflair]

I think it could be very interesting for a German speaking Brit to go onto a German site to see how they speak about us Brits. It could be very interesting in my eyes.
We just assume that we are the real deal

I am on a German motorhome forum, it's easy to read with Google Chrome doing the translation but they are very motorhome focused and never stray into idle chit-chat like we do, there may be other forums that are less formal as the one I am on is for Liners (big vans)

 

[AlunandFelicie]

I am on a German motorhome forum, it's easy to read with Google Chrome doing the translation but they are very motorhome focused and never stray into idle chit-chat like we do, there may be other forums that are less formal as the one I am on is for Liners (big vans)

‘Idle chit-chat’!
what do you possibly mean? nothing on here but deep thoughtful ,profound ,contemplative discussions

 

[Nyvern]

Maybe lots more G&NL are better off than the average British? It's also easier for them to travel within Europe than having to pay and use tunnel or ferry...

 

[MitchandJenny]

I think it could be very interesting for a German speaking Brit to go onto a German site to see how they speak about us Brits. It could be very interesting in my eyes.
We just assume that we are the real deal

I do speak German and they think we are a bit strait laced and pompous !!
Just sayin.
Mitch

 

[Fragle]

The situation down near the Mazarron coast has got truly out of hand. The same people, again mostly Germans, arriving to their spots year after year, cars and caravans as well as motorhomes.

Mazarron ayuntamiento (town hall) have debated, and passed laws to prevent it, but as yet they've not been implemented.

The locals aren't happy, and neither are Spanish motorhomers, who can see that it might affect them also eventually.

As debated on a Spanish Facebook page.

Hardly discrete Wilding, is it?

View attachment 846157

I've just watched some YouTubers blog who are at Mazarron area. But on a popular Campsite.

Seemed like every van was German Concorde or Morello. The place was packed with huge vans with trailers and Toads

We are heading down on the 8th Jan for a month. No set area. Hopefully it will be quieter as we prefer off grid. We will just go inland a bit if too busy.

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[Kayak Kid]

And it was very rarely a problem prior to the last 5-8 years , I spent all my holiday time prior to 2016 off site parking around the North of Scotland and the islands , never once encountering any animosity. But motorhoming and vanlife etc has become increasingly popular. Partly fuelled by the political paths countries have taken. There are way more fulltimers nowadays than there's ever been. The problem will just get worse unfortunately.

Yes I am confident that you are correct - the increase in numbers motorhoming and enjoying the countryside in various ways are putting greater pressure onto the problem. As someone who has been and still is an outdoor instructor for around 45 years and ‘wild camped’ in most areas of Scotland, as well as being an outdoor access adviser to the Scottish Governement, I also notice an increase in the ‘“ Private Property”, “No Access” and “No Tresspassing“ notices and mentality - imported often by many non Scots who have moved to live in the country. In my experience, most ‘locals’ had until recent years accepted fully the ‘ Freedom to Roam‘ tradition and culture in Scotland - but that is now being lost due to the changing attitudes and imported attitudes.

 

[our poppy llll]

I just don’t get it surly the point of a motorhome is it’s a home with a motor! If you plan to stay in the same spot for 4/5 months it’s got to be better to rent or buy an apartment?

Yeah I agree, ok if it’s a great place, 5 nights even a week, but for me 2 nights then move on or just the 1 night in most cases, generally if it’s somewhere worth staying find a camp site, hook up, use the showers and washing machines. Drink alcohol, rummage through the architecture and museums, eat out, have fun. Then when you’ve had enough, move on…

 

[bigtwin]

As someone who has been and still is an outdoor instructor for around 45 years and ‘wild camped’ in most areas of Scotland, as well as being an outdoor access adviser to the Scottish Governement, I also notice an increase in the ‘“ Private Property”, “No Access” and “No Tresspassing“ notices and mentality - imported often by many non Scots who have moved to live in the country. In my experience, most ‘locals’ had until recent years accepted fully the ‘ Freedom to Roam‘ tradition and culture in Scotland - but that is now being lost due to the changing attitudes and imported attitudes

Do you post on any of the NC500 related Facebook groups (there are both pro-NC500 and anti-NC500 groups)?

The whole ‘wild camping’ and relevance of the SOAC is frequently discussed.

Ian

 

[busby]

I think it's nice in April & May and warm enough to inland a bit.

Same here..done a few winters..better weather than UK but very short days..Since 90/180 we do march April may and Sept Oct Nov...Sites and Aires are much quieter..weather better and more daylight hours..BUSBY..

 

[Paulypaul]

Just to follow on a bit from the post title: an Aire literally on the beach, and yet two Germans and a French van decide to get their tables and chairs out? One of the Germans has even occupied the last remaining parking space with his table and chairs (there are only 8 spaces in total at this location). Several vans have driven in and straight out probably cause they didn't want the confrontation of asking Mr Kraut to move his furniture.

If it was the last space and I wanted to park, I'd politely ask him to move his shite. They've also got 3 dogs running around off lead...no respect or consideration whatsoever.

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[Coastal Cruiser.]

two Germans and a French van decide to get their tables and chairs out

Had this on our last trip at a Stellplatz in German, 5 spaces facing the lake and 3 German vans with awnings and other shite taking up all 5 spots

 

[cyberyacht]

I have just returned from Spain and had posted the photo below, here it is again, these were German and Dutch, you can see how they parked across bays. But they were very friendly and there was room on the car park for 20-30 more vans. I spoke to a Dutch and a German and they said I’d be welcome to park up near them. They told me where they go for water and emptying the waste and toilets. And said they don’t have any problems with the locals or the police. As long as they leave before the holiday season starts.
They had tables and chairs out and some had sunbathing beds. The ones I spoke to said they were there for 4-5 months. Over Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb & Mar. I stopped at quiteView attachment 846292 a few places and there were Moho’s of many nationalities. From Benidorm to the Mar Menor.
There were quite a lot of Brits just like me, especially at La Marina, Gran Alicant, Santa Pola, La Zenia Blvd, and 8 beach car parks from Cabo Roig to Mar Menor.
No where seemed too full and it didn’t seem to be a problem.

Can I ask where that pic is and the location of the services referred to?

I used to have an apartment at Gran Alacant and in the winter the car park at Carabassi at the bottom of Avenida de Mediterrasneo had some 'residents', one with a sports car on a trailer. The rough parking area a mile or so south along the Camino towards Santa Pola attracts a fair few as well.

 

[Badknee]

Baxk in 2018/19 in Águilas, Las Carolinas, Calabardina, they erected signs prohibiting the overnight parking of motorhomes on & around the beaches . No w they have all been removed by the authorities

We have them here Richard gus-lopez but they are ignored by every nationality.
Two years ago I counted 44 vans parked nose to tail for weeks. I was told that the locals and businesses got pissed of due to lack of parking and gave the mayor a bollocking, she in turn gave the chief of police (her brother in law) a kick up the arse and they were moved the next day. There were a few Brits but most were D & NL lots with school aged kids that were totally feral.

 

[Kayak Kid]

Do you post on any of the NC500 related Facebook groups (there are both pro-NC500 and anti-NC500 groups)?
I
The whole ‘wild camping’ and relevance of the SOAC is frequently discussed.

Ian

Hi Ian,

No, I don’t - but I am sure what you say is the case!

The NC500 is a good example where the volume of visitor is causing problems for the local population whether ‘native’ or ‘incomer’. Unfortunately, it is made worse by the selfish (albeit minority) members of our fraternity and others who do not follow ‘best practice’ whether through ignorance, dogma or other reasons! People as you know, remember those most who upset them. In the NC500 case, I suspect the matter will get worse as websites, guidebooks and dare I say this and other such forum publicise the understandable merits of the area. The sad thing is that motorhomes specifically are not easily missed when parking/staying overnight in small communities, irrespective of how responsible our behaviour is - whereas small vehicles often slip under the radar.

Generally local tourist impacted businesses tend to support visitors, whereas local residents tend to be easily irritated as they are often impacted in ways which affect their way of life and/or the very reason that they live or have moved there.

The NC500 was created as a marketing initiative, and whilst successful, it has been a double edged sword. Other areas have of course replicated the initiative. However the NC500 infrastructure is unable to sustain the pressures it is experiencing now, and I doubt it could ever cope at the growing peak demand periods.

There are many other examples of what have become ‘honey pots’ such as the Cairngorm National Park, Loch Lomond and Trossachs National Park to name just a couple of prominent areas. There are countless more in Scotland and around the UK. In such cases, management and control measures have been put in place in order to protect the land, water, communities and culture. These measures can and do include specific parking and overnight stopping facilities for outdoor leisure tourists (often at a cost) but this will no doubt be balanced by fewer ‘off road’ wilder locations and ‘freedom to roam’.

I think it is inevitable that the ongoing increase in outdoor leisure pursuits in time is going to force governments, local authorities and other land owners to introduce further management, control and restriction measures. What we can do as motorhomers in this is process is to either help delay such measures by responsible actions or aid what I believe in time is the inevitable by acting irresponsibly and against recognised ‘best practice’. There is little doubt in my view though that we will continue to lose the freedoms that we currently and previously enjoyed - or abused!

 

[bigtwin]

Hi Ian,

No, I don’t - but I am sure what you say is the case!

The NC500 is a good example where the volume of visitor is causing problems for the local population whether ‘native’ or ‘incomer’. Unfortunately, it is made worse by the selfish (albeit minority) members of our fraternity and others who do not follow ‘best practice’ whether through ignorance, dogma or other reasons! People as you know, remember those most who upset them. In the NC500 case, I suspect the matter will get worse as websites, guidebooks and dare I say this and other such forum publicise the understandable merits of the area. The sad thing is that motorhomes specifically are not easily missed when parking/staying overnight in small communities, irrespective of how responsible our behaviour is - whereas small vehicles often slip under the radar.

Generally local tourist impacted businesses tend to support visitors, whereas local residents tend to be easily irritated as they are often impacted in ways which affect their way of life and/or the very reason that they live or have moved there.

The NC500 was created as a marketing initiative, and whilst successful, it has been a double edged sword. Other areas have of course replicated the initiative. However the NC500 infrastructure is unable to sustain the pressures it is experiencing now, and I doubt it could ever cope at the growing peak demand periods.

There are many other examples of what have become ‘honey pots’ such as the Cairngorm National Park, Loch Lomond and Trossachs National Park to name just a couple of prominent areas. There are countless more in Scotland and around the UK. In such cases, management and control measures have been put in place in order to protect the land, water, communities and culture. These measures can and do include specific parking and overnight stopping facilities for outdoor leisure tourists (often at a cost) but this will no doubt be balanced by fewer ‘off road’ wilder locations and ‘freedom to roam’.

I think it is inevitable that the ongoing increase in outdoor leisure pursuits in time is going to force governments, local authorities and other land owners to introduce further management, control and restriction measures. What we can do as motorhomers in this is process is to either help delay such measures by responsible actions or aid what I believe in time is the inevitable by acting irresponsibly and against recognised ‘best practice’. There is little doubt in my view though that we will continue to lose the freedoms that we currently and previously enjoyed - or abused!

That’s pretty much spot on. Part of the problem, as well as the general growth in numbers that you mention, is almost certainly the volume of hire vans doing the route.

Ian

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[Kayak Kid]

Yes Ian - they do add to the problem - perhaps not significantly in my view - but a minority who are more likely not to appreciate the etiquette and best practice that I referred to.

 

[CAB96]

Just to follow on a bit from the post title: an Aire literally on the beach, and yet two Germans and a French van decide to get their tables and chairs out? One of the Germans has even occupied the last remaining parking space with his table and chairs (there are only 8 spaces in total at this location). Several vans have driven in and straight out probably cause they didn't want the confrontation of asking Mr Kraut to move his furniture.

If it was the last space and I wanted to park, I'd politely ask him to move his shite. They've also got 3 dogs running around off lead...no respect or consideration whatsoever.

View attachment 846660

I'd be tempted to just reverse straight into the space.

Good job I'm not going to be there any time soon!

 

[jumartoo]

The illegally operated (according to Mazarron town hall) motorhome parking area at Playa de Percheles, has been cleared by the Guardia Civil today. This is just along to coast from all the German (mainly) free parkers (including the caravan). It'll be interesting to see if that stretch of coastline is also cleared. It was all in the area that was debated and rules passed for.

I'll be watching ...

 

[Peavy]

The illegally operated (according to Mazarron town hall) motorhome parking area at Playa de Percheles, has been cleared by the Guardia Civil today. This is just along to coast from all the German (mainly) free parkers (including the caravan). It'll be interesting to see if that stretch of coastline is also cleared. It was all in the area that was debated and rules passed for.

I'll be watching ...

I wonder if they have been fined according to the law...

 

[jumartoo]

I wonder if they have been fined according to the law...

It's reported that he'll have to pay €17,000 to have the bay put back to how it was.

(Only reported, though)!

I don't know about any Ley de Costa infraction fines

How I first saw the bay (2019)

And a few weeks ago.

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[Pugsy]

It's reported that he'll have to pay €17,000 to have the bay put back to how it was.

(Only reported, though)!

I don't know about any Ley de Costa infraction fines

How I first saw the bay (2019)

View attachment 846832

And a few weeks ago.
View attachment 846833

Those pics say it all really,when I lived in Spain I had quite a few places like that I used to go and now they all look like the fenced in pic,very sad but only going to get worse I fear.

 

[our poppy llll]

Zey vill fight zem on zee beaches and on zee car parkz zey vill never surrender. Und ven daz van drops to bitz zey vill stay there for everz and everz. Zem Dutches und zem Krautz zey have zee big vanz ya..und zey carez not one iotaz about zee Brits. Rememberz benidormz beach ya! Rememberz zee towelz on zee sunbeds ya! Payz backz…

 

[Riverbankannie]

Quite pleased the last couple of years we have gone in April due to other commitments and quite like it. Apart from a few days over Easter never a problem finding somewhere to stop and the weather is better so will probably keep doing it.

Thats good to know. After reading about the crowding on the costas, we are on the ferry 24 march for a month and looking to go inland.

 

[Mikey RV]

I find it sad looking at them two photos because it’s just ruined a beautiful place and I would not want to swim there as you know what could be in the sea or surrounding bushes. Don’t get me wrong I have free camped for years starting back in the seventies but only for a couple of days and never ever left any trace of me being there only footprints.

 

[EuroTrotters]

one of the most annoying for me was the Dutch Guy Near Wok Roundabout in Javea.

He parked on Private land alongside other motohomers. But put cones out to deter people from parking next to him.

I never took a photo, but I think bobandjanie will remember him.

The ironic thing is, in The Netherlands. Its is illegal or difficult to park on roadsides and parking areas.

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