Are the Germans destroying wild camping in Spain?

[Coolcats]

It seems to have started with package holidays and the FOMO types getting up at crack of dawn to put a towel on a poolside sunbed.
I lived with a German girl in Cologne for four years and she agreed with my observation that selfishness and being ultra-competitive was a common trait in many more German and Dutch people than Brits.

Oh you need a bigger sample of opinions than one ex to say this applies

 

[two]

More vans are manufactured every year and I'm sure that much fewer are scrapped. That means that the population of vans is increasing and we have to get used to camping closer together. That's not what many of us want.
For my part I prefer to escape the crowds and would not be attracted to these popular spots anyway.
If the D & NL are all away from home, why not go there while they're out? Both countries are much closer and have much to offer!

 

[Two on Tour]

If the D & NL are all away from home, why not go there while they're out? Both countries are much closer and have much to offer!

I would think that the weather is not so inviting in Holland and Germany at this time of the year, hence why they are in Spain.

 

[mitzimad]

its the fourth reich

 

[busby]

But

More vans are manufactured every year and I'm sure that much fewer are scrapped. That means that the population of vans is increasing and we have to get used to camping closer together. That's not what many of us want.
For my part I prefer to escape the crowds and would not be attracted to these popular spots anyway.
If the D & NL are all away from home, why not go there while they're out? Both countries are much closer and have much to offer!

But the weather in both countries is crap in the winter..that's why they go to Spain..BUSBY..

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[gus-lopez]

For as long as I have lived here the Germans with sense have bought up any available plots of land that are A) too small to legally build on & B) far too small to have any value for agriculture. There are many just back from the beaches from Águilas to Mazarron & there are plenty inland as well.Small communes. . 1000m2 allows them to get 2 or 3 mates staying as well.

Then you have the ones who take up all the available off site spaces year after year & who as stated number in the 00's if not 000's.
You also have to bear in mind that of all the Germans that I personally know , which number in the dozens, only 1 couple are actually resident here. All the others live here permanently but never bother with residency. They have no need .they cannot be thrown out, the same as any other eu citizen. They own homes, run cars ,on both german & spanish plates. One couple I know quite well actually return to germany when buying a new G wagen.

They populate the Almenaras between Lorca & Águilas & along the inland road towards Mazarron over the hills.

Actually jumar where you were riding the other day,
Los Diecisiete Arcos, when you ride up the side of the rambla under the arches to the top of the hill the Germans & Dutch had all purchased land to the right as you climbed towards the top. Enclaves of them. been there far longer than we have.

If the D & NL are all away from home, why not go there while they're out?

It's snowing.

 

[Spriddler]

Oh you need a bigger sample of opinions than one ex to say this applies

At the time I was working with around 150 German people at a manufacturer's Headquarters Q in Cologne and
although I did sample several non-cohabiting German girls we didn't occupy ourselves with discussions on the behaviour of German holidaymakers (but I don't regret that. )

 

[Coolcats]

At the time I was working with around 150 German people at a manufacturer's Headquarters Q in Cologne and
although I did sample several non-cohabiting German girls we didn't occupy ourselves with discussions on the behaviour of German holidaymakers (but I don't regret that. )

Oh to be young and carefree

 

[Northernraider]

Not meant with any racist undertones but it seems that all the good wild camping spots down the east coast have been taken over by hoards of Germans and Dutch who set up camp, reserve their spaces by leaving chairs out etc and try to dictate what other people do, whilst doing exactly what they want without any consideration of their surrounding?

The result seems to be that the locals get pissed off and then the police and all of a sudden what used to be a really nice spot by stop for a few nights, is closed or made inaccessible.

I know the few can ruin it for the majority, but it just seems that the few are now the majority with hoards of D & NL vans this year?

Not just in Spain. Nearly every other motorhome and camper in Greece this winter is German. Some stay on the same spot for 3-6 months

 

[nicholsong]

Not just in Spain. Nearly every other motorhome and camper in Greece this winter is German. Some stay on the same spot for 3-6 months

How unadventurous!

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[Peavy]

Spanish Coastal Law.
Article 33.5:
Unauthorized parking and circulation of vehicles, as well as camps and camping, are prohibited.
Article 97:
1. For serious infractions, the sanction will be:
In the case of camping, 40 euros per occupied square meter per day, this being the minimum penalty.
In the case of unauthorized parking or circulation of vehicles, between 50 and 150 euros, depending on the criteria established by regulation.

This is a raw google translation, apologies if something may look not well translated.

 

[our poppy llll]

I have just returned from Spain and had posted the photo below, here it is again, these were German and Dutch, you can see how they parked across bays. But they were very friendly and there was room on the car park for 20-30 more vans. I spoke to a Dutch and a German and they said I’d be welcome to park up near them. They told me where they go for water and emptying the waste and toilets. And said they don’t have any problems with the locals or the police. As long as they leave before the holiday season starts.
They had tables and chairs out and some had sunbathing beds. The ones I spoke to said they were there for 4-5 months. Over Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb & Mar. I stopped at quite

a few places and there were Moho’s of many nationalities. From Benidorm to the Mar Menor.
There were quite a lot of Brits just like me, especially at La Marina, Gran Alicant, Santa Pola, La Zenia Blvd, and 8 beach car parks from Cabo Roig to Mar Menor.
No where seemed too full and it didn’t seem to be a problem.

 

[jumartoo]

Spanish Coastal Law.
Article 33.5:
Unauthorized parking and circulation of vehicles, as well as camps and camping, are prohibited.
Article 97:
1. For serious infractions, the sanction will be:
In the case of camping, 40 euros per occupied square meter per day, this being the minimum penalty.
In the case of unauthorized parking or circulation of vehicles, between 50 and 150 euros, depending on the criteria established by regulation.

This is a raw google translation, apologies if something may look not well translated.

The problem down at Mazarron, is that the laws aren't being enforced.

 

[Burgo]

The situation down near the Mazarron coast has got truly out of hand

+1 along this way. The stretch of 340 between La Herradura and Nerja used to be lovely scenic drive. Now every lay by and viewpoint parking area us crammed with motorhomes. All the black water gets chucked over the cliffs - unless seagull guano is now blue these days in which case I stand corrected.
What's happening is now us locals, who just want to get out the house for a night somewhere different can't - and more and more towns are imposing bylaws banning motorhomes from 'parking' overnight as well as 'camping'.

 

[Peavy]

All the black water gets chucked over the cliffs

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[Peavy]

The problem down at Mazarron, is that the laws aren't being enforced.

Exactly, as we have discussed before, that is one of our main problems.
Maybe the local authorities don't care, I don't know.
If I see someone parking like this in my area, I will call the local police.

 

[gus-lopez]

and more and more towns are imposing bylaws banning motorhomes from 'parking' overnight

The problem with that is that , as many have found out,it cannot legally be done.National law takes precedence & that does not allow for discrimination between types of vehicle unless they are HGV's.

 

[gus-lopez]

The problem down at Mazarron, is that the laws aren't being enforced.

Baxk in 2018/19 in Águilas, Las Carolinas, Calabardina, they erected signs prohibiting the overnight parking of motorhomes on & around the beaches . No w they have all been removed by the authorities

 

[jumartoo]

The problem with that is that , as many have found out,it cannot legally be done.National law takes precedence & that does not allow for discrimination between types of vehicle unless they are HGV's.

My worry is that national law will change and hit us all, even if we're parked up somewhere quiet inland.

 

[Burgo]

The problem with that is that , as many have found out,it cannot legally be done.National law takes precedence & that does not allow for discrimination between types of vehicle unless they are HGV's.

I and you know, as do most local mhomers. I suspect, however, that a lot of Ayuntamientos instruct their Policía Local to issue the tickets knowing that most extranjeros will cough up in ignorance, and that the majority of locals can't face the obstacles and time & expense in appealing an incorrectly issued fine.

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[Northernraider]

How unadventurous!

Yep I'm not sure how they do it. When I was at Elea again this year ,sure enough the wee German fella with the blue and white sprinter was in his same spot. He goes there in October and stays till April.

When I was leaving I spoke to a German family in a burstner. He told me they'd been there 10 weeks and were staying till end of December then going to Turkey. I suppose some may look at it as a way to save loads of cash. If they're not driving around then it's only their food bill they're paying each week.

But I would Get bored. I struggle to stay in one place more than 3 or 4 days.

 

[Two on Tour]

But I would Get bored. I struggle to stay in one place more than 3 or 4 days.

I'm with you on that one.
We are going down to Spain and Portugal January time for a couple of months, but I doubt that we will be parked up for more than a couple of days in any one place, as we are wanting to see Spain and Portugal, not just the same view for two months or the same bar to frequent, ........ yee gods that would be our idea of hell.

 

[jumartoo]

A couple of years ago we went to spend the night at one of our local favourites, near a reservoir. There were two Germans vans already there. They had out tables and chairs, and washing lines. They then proceeded to send the kids to collect firewood to make an open fire.

Martin went to tell them that fires weren't allowed. The area was still tinder dry. They couldn't give a damn. Their answer was we're leaving tomorrow and probably won't be back there again. If we get a fine we'll pay and leave.

That doesn't help to keep a place tolerated for people wanting to visit. We haven't been back there since, but maybe we will in the near future.

 

[BouncyBoatFolk]

A couple of years ago we went to spend the night at one of our local favourites, near a reservoir. There were two Germans vans already there. They had out tables and chairs, and washing lines. They then proceeded to send the kids to collect firewood to make an open fire.

Martin went to tell them that fires weren't allowed. The area was still tinder dry. They couldn't give a damn. Their answer was we're leaving tomorrow and probably won't be back there again. If we get a fine we'll pay and leave.

That doesn't help to keep a place tolerated for people wanting to visit. We haven't been back there since, but maybe we will in the near future.

Never ceases to amaze me how some people take a sensible and straight forward instruction as a direct affront to their civil liberties and rights.
Mike.

 

[AlunandFelicie]

I have just returned from Spain and had posted the photo below, here it is again, these were German and Dutch, you can see how they parked across bays. But they were very friendly and there was room on the car park for 20-30 more vans. I spoke to a Dutch and a German and they said I’d be welcome to park up near them. They told me where they go for water and emptying the waste and toilets. And said they don’t have any problems with the locals or the police. As long as they leave before the holiday season starts.
They had tables and chairs out and some had sunbathing beds. The ones I spoke to said they were there for 4-5 months. Over Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb & Mar. I stopped at quiteView attachment 846292 a few places and there were Moho’s of many nationalities. From Benidorm to the Mar Menor.
There were quite a lot of Brits just like me, especially at La Marina, Gran Alicant, Santa Pola, La Zenia Blvd, and 8 beach car parks from Cabo Roig to Mar Menor.
No where seemed too full and it didn’t seem to be a problem.

I just don’t get it surly the point of a motorhome is it’s a home with a motor! If you plan to stay in the same spot for 4/5 months it’s got to be better to rent or buy an apartment?

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[Lenny HB]

Martin went to tell them that fires weren't allowed. The area was still tinder dry. They couldn't give a damn. Their answer was we're leaving tomorrow and probably won't be back there again. If we get a fine we'll pay and leave.

Martin being an ex fireman I would have expected no less than a bucket of water over the fire.

 

[Peavy]

Martin being an ex fireman I would have expected no less than a bucket of water over the fire.

And over their empty heads.
Why would anyone be so selfish and arrogant?
I don't understand...

 

[Just smiffy]

At the time of brexit there was a thread about Spain's loss as to the brits coming to the coast of Spain, I said at the time there will be 3 other Europeans waiting to take their place and Spain won’t notice us gone, this winter I have seen the results of this first hand, I mentioned a while back that there seemed to be lots of Germans and indeed the new aire at mazerron which is huge was 99% German.
I’ve seen communities of them along the coast and especially Aguilas, the site I’m on now cap-blanch is full of NL and lots more pitches are becoming permanent pitches…

The amount of Morelos I’ve seen in a muddy lay-by is incredible…

And…. To be honest I’m not feeling it this year and it will probably be my last time here for a winter….

 

[Lenny HB]

And…. To be honest I’m not feeling it this year and it will probably be my last time here for a winter….

I think it's nice in April & May and warm enough to inland a bit.

 

[Kayak Kid]

As a resident Scot, who motorhomes widely in mainland Europe for 2/3 months annually and the UK year round, the title of this thread and many of the posts strike a loud cord for me for Scotland! I am able to relate to much of what has been said.

Unfortunately in Scotland we also have to live with many ‘tourists‘ from within the UK (including Scotland) and wider, who mistakenly think our publicised ‘Wild Camping’ rights (defined under the Scottish Land Reform Act of 2003) apply to motorhomes, campervans and other vehicles, when indeed no such rights apply. The misunderstanding isn’t helped, by many in our motorhoming fraternity using the term ‘Wild Camping’ (when referring to ‘off road‘, ‘off site’ or ‘off grid’ stops) - which in Scotland has a very specific and clearly defined meaning for access and use of land - be that rough roadside tracks or other ‘wilder’ locations.

The rights for ‘Wild Camping’ in Scotland do NOT apply to vehicles of ANY type, and unfortunately misunderstanding and resultant practices by some add to a growing animosity towards us In this country. This is becoming all too evident in many rural and more remote areas especially (but certainly not only) on the Scottish islands (where my family is from). ANY vehicle parking or stopping overnight on privately owned land in Scotland should have the landowners permission. This also applies to much publicaly owned land also in many cases.

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