A TOWED CARS PRODUCT RECALL

[Minxy]

What does that make me then Eddie? I can see the evidence in the photos, others on the forum have had issues too so are they making it all up or are you just unwilling to accept that, even if very rare, it does happen?

I don't use one but I do want them to be safe both for users for them and non-users alike the (ie public).

Just because YOU haven't heard of any other instances of total failure doesn't mean it hasn't happened, the best outcome would be for ALL installations to be fitted with a 'safety' cable (I won't call it a breakaway as that causes confusion), if one is fitted then this should never ever be able to happen which is the desired outcome, the problem is if that the users are not made aware of the need to use one, or even worse one hasn't been fitted by the 'professional' installer, then what hope for those who use them and 'trust' its been done properly?

You put trust in 'professionals' to install equipment etc safely and correctly ... to put it in context, if you installed a tracker system and didn't fit/connect a vital part so the MH was able to be nicked without it being traceable don't you think the owner of the MH would be looking to you for an explanation?

 

[big map]

I followed the link for #towsafeforfreddie

Road safety campaign urges drivers to #towsafe4freddie

Drivers who tow trailers are being urged to carry out basic safety checks following the tragic death of 3-year-old Freddie Hussey.

www.gov.uk

This is a case I know of local to me. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/dorset/7610717.stm

Are we sure it is not Land Rover that should be targeted?

 

[eddie]

What does that make me the Eddie?

I don't know, how do you identify yourself? He? She? Them? They?

I don't use one but I do want them to be safe both for users for them and non-users alike the (ie public).

They statistically appear to be The Department for Transport appear happy with them and no one has ever been prosecuted in the UK for using one so we're agreed on that

Just because YOU haven't heard of any other instances of total failure doesn't mean it hasn't happened, the best outcome would be for ALL installations to be fitted with a 'safety' cable (I won't call it a breakaway as that causes confusion), if one is fitted then this should never ever be able to happen which is the desired outcome, the problem is if that the users are not made aware of the need to use one, or even worse one hasn't been fitted by the 'professional' installer, then what hope for those who use them and 'trust' its been done properly?

I agree as with all things, it should be the right product for the job, fitted properly and used properly. Its not just ME that haven't heard of other instances NO ONE has heard of total failure not even Don Quixote

You put trust in 'professionals' to install equipment etc safely and correctly ... to put it in context, if you installed a tracker system and didn't fit/connect a vital part so the MH was able to be nicked without it being traceable don't you think the owner of the MH would be looking to you for an explanation?

I agree which is why I tell everyone that is prepared to listen that I can turn off any wireless alarm system or ANY tracker from outside the vehicle at a flick of a switch which is why they shouldn't be trusted

I keep repeating that the evidence simply isn't there to suggest that A Frames are dangerous and it is wrong to suggest that in the UK they are illegal

 

[Minxy]

The debate about 'legality' has been done to death, they are in the 'grey' area at present and unless it is tested in court we will never know one way or the other but that's nothing to do with this 'debate'.

What we are talking about is at best an 'incomplete' installation, at worse a wholly incompetent one due to the attachment points on the vehicle not being into a structurally strong part, a thin cross member isn't meant to be able to take the weight of the towed car other than for a short distance at lower speeds.

Its very easy to besmirch someone who doesn't have the same view as you but that doesn't mean that they are wrong especially when you can see the 'evidence' with your own eyes. I know I'm not a professional, expert etc, but I do have common sense and can see the images and work out what seems to have happened, you can no doubt see this too, none of use are idiots, none of us are denying this has happened, we can see the car and the aftermath.

So how about stopping the slagging off of those who DO believe that SOME vehicles will have (and have had) issues and try to ensure that people check them to ensure they are safe so that people can continue to use them (which I fully support) rather than try to constantly undermine those who are trying to make them aware.

 

[Geo]

Good Job this Protaganist wasn't around 100years ago we'd all be on Shank's Pony
Ban em, I say Ban em,
I think one was being A framed
And those poor cyclist had to run for their lives

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[TonyEmm]

Blind? or just can't see the evidence as there is none?

One car doesn't make thousands dangerous. If the car had pulled broken away just after the installation that would be different, but my understanding was that the A Frame had been on for years. For all any of us know it could be a rusty as tin can at the bottom of the Sea, the owner may have made a mistake that day and fitted it incorrectly.

I'll happily stop posting if you stop trying to re-invent the wheel and keep spouting that A Frames are illegal and dangerous. Its perfectly acceptable to "think" that they are, the same as people are perfectly entitled to "think" that their God is great! and everyone else's "God" is wrong. The War only starts when people try to indoctrinate others into their "Belief"

As it is, anyone that disagrees with you is wrong, anyone that disagrees with you is "blind" anyone that disagrees with you has their head stuck in the sand, even your attempts to get the Department for Transport involved has frustrated you as they also have their "heads in the sand"

The Government have a web site that you can look things up it encompasses many things, even A Frames

A-frames

www.gov.uk

To you, even that is wrong!

There is a great book written by Miguel de Cervantes, about a well meaning chap who saw Ferocious Giants and had to battle them whenever he saw them! to the amusement of others who wondered why he was shouting at windmills!

Head in the sand, again!

you are completely missing the point that regardless of the cause of the failure, THERE WAS NO EMERGENCY BREAKAWAY SYSTEM installed!
The age, condition, or whatever of the vehicle is irrelevant, but BTW, it had less than 7000 miles on the odometer… and apart from the modification, was rust free. It’s failed 2 MoT’s in it’s life, both on tyres. There have NEVER been any other faults or advisories.

 

[TonyEmm]

Good Job this Protaganist wasn't around 100years ago we'd all be on Shank's Pony
Bam em, I say Ban em,
I think one was being A framed
View attachment 559718

Your sense of humour on such a serious safety issue is pathetic, especially considering you claim to be associated with VOSA as an inspector.
For info, it hasn’t been VOSA for many years, it’s the DVSA.

 

[Geo]

TWO mot FAILURES On TYRES in 7000 miles The owner obviously drive like a mad man
throwing it around corners

 

[Hirsch]

Good Job this Protaganist wasn't around 100years ago we'd all be on Shank's Pony
Ban em, I say Ban em,
I think one was being A framed
View attachment 559718

This photo would be good for a caption competition

 

[Geo]

Yeah but it was VOSA who approved me cos DVSA did not exist.
oops another Faux Pass

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[Minxy]

Is there ANY chance that the 'insults' can stop please? On any other thread Jim would have pulled the plug and sent people to Coventry for less.

This is a serious issue and not to be made fun of so please stop point scoring and get behind the 'safety' message.

 

[Barclaybasher]

Head in the sand, again!

you are completely missing the point that regardless of the cause of the failure, THERE WAS NO EMERGENCY BREAKAWAY SYSTEM installed!
The age, condition, or whatever of the vehicle is irrelevant, but BTW, it had less than 7000 miles on the odometer…

Ignoring the tens of thousands of miles being dragged behind the motorhome in 10 + years....

 

[TonyEmm]

I followed the link for #towsafeforfreddie

Road safety campaign urges drivers to #towsafe4freddie

Drivers who tow trailers are being urged to carry out basic safety checks following the tragic death of 3-year-old Freddie Hussey.

www.gov.uk

This is a case I know of local to me. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/dorset/7610717.stm

Are we sure it is not Land Rover that should be targeted?

Thank you for at least following the link at #towsafeforfreddie. No family should have to endure such loss.

it is not Land Rover that should be targeted, neither the vehicle nor it’s towing equipment were faulty.

I appreciate the link to your Dorset accident too. Despite having lived there for a few years, I was unaware of that incident. There can never be enough publicity regarding towing safety….

#TowSafe4Freddie : Death Of Three-Year-Old In Crushing Trailer Tragedy Leads To New Government Safety Campaign

Three-year Freddie Hussey The death of a three-year-old boy who was crushed by a runaway trailer

stories.swns.com

 

[Geo]

What safety message, all i see is an unqualified person (His words) with limited knowledge trying to railroad A framers
into a false sense of insecurity

 

[TonyEmm]

Yeah but it was VOSA who approved me cos DVSA did not exist.
oops another Faux Pass

No Faux Pas! Fact!!

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[eddie]

Is there ANY chance that the 'insults' can stop please?

Tell your mate!

On any other thread Jim would have pulled the plug and sent people to Coventry for less.

This is a serious issue and not to be made fun of so please stop point scoring and get behind the 'safety' message

There isn't one, just a band wagon

Head in the sand, again!

Your sense of humour on such a serious safety issue is pathetic,

 

[Minxy]

What safety message, all i see is an unqualified person (His words) with limited knowledge trying to railroad A framers
into a false sense of insecurity

Really? So what does that make me then? I have a 'limited' knowledge but cannot deny what has happened no matter how much I try.

Why are you SO against making others aware to check? It's not a 'false sense of insecurity', it's a message to check to ensure they are 'positively secure'! Please try to see the bigger picture.

 

[Minxy]

Tell your mate!

It was meant for EVERYONE ...

There isn't one, just a band wagon

Are you an expert and know it all then Eddie? I don't believe anyone is but it doesn't mean it shouldn't be brought to light ... as I said, get behind the safety message rather than shooting the messenger.

 

[Geo]

No Faux Pas! Fact!!

Shout loud enough some one might believe you
but here are the real facts
The name of the new agency was confirmed as the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA) on 28 November 2013. DSA and VOSA closed on 31 March 2014, and DVSA ...
Formed: 1 April 2014 (7 years ago)
I qualified a good few years before

 

[TonyEmm]

What safety message, all i see is an unqualified person (His words) with limited knowledge trying to railroad A framers
into a false sense of insecurity

Are you referring to me as unqualified?

I wonder why I was honoured to deliver the training on behalf of the NTTA to the industry on towing and trailer related matters?
I make no claims to be a university graduate, my ‘qualifications’ are 30 years+ plus at the sharp end of manufacturing trailers and towing equipment. That is experience money can’t buy.

I wonder why I was the first acknowledment in the Haynes Trailer Manual? (With the exception of John Wickersham who proof read it).

I wonder why my company was the first in the U.K. to set up an industry training school?

I wonder why my company was the first in the U.K. to be NTTA QS approved?

I wonder why my company was the first and AFAIK, the only company in the U.K. to offer lifetime warranties on our Towbar installations?

Maybe you should do a little more research.

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[eddie]

Really? So what does that make me then? I have a 'limited' knowledge but cannot deny what has happened no matter how much I try.

Why are you SO against making others aware to check? It's not a 'false sense of insecurity', it's a message to check to ensure they are 'positively secure'! Please try to see the bigger picture.

People should check anything that they own or use, its common sense.

Trailers under 750Kg don't even need brakes, let alone a brakeaway system, how stupid is that?

A Frames are NOT illegal whatever anyone says

Broken Link Removed The National Trailer and Towing Association have members who sell A Frames and I suspect that the National Trailer & Towing Association know more about trailer and towing safety than anyone on this forum

Accidents happen, steps should be taken against negligence, however, unqualified blanket statements condemning something that is NOT Illegal is not helping improve safety

 

[TonyEmm]

Shout loud enough some one might believe you
but here are the real facts
The name of the new agency was confirmed as the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA) on 28 November 2013. DSA and VOSA closed on 31 March 2014, and DVSA ...
Formed: 1 April 2014 (7 years ago)
I qualified a good few years before

And the current chief executive of the DVSA is?
just a little trivia question for you. If you have to Google it, you’ve failed.

 

[Lenny HB]

Trailers under 750Kg don't even need brakes, let alone a brakeaway system, how stupid is that?

I think you will find they have to have a breakaway chain.

 

[TonyEmm]

People should check anything that they own or use, its common sense.

Trailers under 750Kg don't even need brakes, let alone a brakeaway system, how stupid is that?

A Frames are NOT illegal whatever anyone says

Broken Link Removed The National Trailer and Towing Association have members who sell A Frames and I suspect that the National Trailer & Towing Association know more about trailer and towing safety than anyone on this forum

Accidents happen, steps should be taken against negligence, however, unqualified blanket statements condemning something that is NOT Illegal is not helping improve safety

Trailers under 750kgs don’t need a breakaway system, but they do need a secondary coupling! Not just U.K. law either, it’s EU law (European Directive 98/12EC) and UNECE law (regulation 13 of the Road Traffic regs).
Who has said a-frames are illegal? Not I, nor the NTTA which incidentally, I was a council member and Director of for several years…

You guys just keep on shooting yourselves in the foot….

 

[Lenny HB]

TWO mot FAILURES On TYRES in 7000 miles The owner obviously drive like a mad man
throwing it around corners

Nar, scrubbed out reversing on a silly A frame.

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[Geo]

Love the child like mindset Tony
Didn't even know he fitted A frames.
I once met Elton John does that count

 

[eddie]

It was meant for EVERYONE ...

Sorry could you elucidate? What insults have I posted?

Are you an expert and know it all then Eddie? I don't believe anyone is but it doesn't mean it shouldn't be brought to light ... as I said, get behind the safety message rather than shooting the messenger.

What does that even mean?

I know that A Frames are not illegal in the UK

I know that I have seen people using A Frames for about thirty years

I don't think that I know of an accident caused by an A Frame

I know that my Terios Car A Tow A Frame is great the odd time I use it

I know that I am confused as the message seems to of changed from an incorrect and ambiguous Safety Recall to something completely different, a rant about A Frame legality

 

[Geo]

Trailers under don’t need a breakaway system, but they do need a secondary coupling! Not just U.K. law either, it’s EU law (European Directive 98/12EC) and UNECE law (regulation 13 of the Road Traffic regs).
Who has said a-frames are illegal? Not I, nor the NTTA which incidentally, I was a council member and Director of for several years…

You guys just keep on shooting yourselves in the foot….

Thats the funniest thing YOU have ever posted,
Google Kettle and Pot

 

[TonyEmm]

I think you will find they have to have a breakaway chain.

Reg 86a of the Road Vehicles (construction & use) regulations. This amendment was introduced in 1995.

“Use of secondary coupling on trailers​

86A.—(1) No person shall use or cause or permit to be used on a road a motor vehicle drawing one trailer if the trailer—

(a)is a trailer to which regulation 15 applies; and

(b)is not fitted with a device which is designed to stop the trailer automatically in the event of the separation of the main coupling while the trailer is in motion,

unless the requirements of paragraph (2) are met in relation to the motor vehicle and trailer.

(2) The requirements of this paragraph, in relation to a motor vehicle drawing a trailer, are that a secondary coupling is attached to the motor vehicle and trailer in such a way that, in the event of the separation of the main coupling while the trailer is in motion,—

(a)the drawbar of the trailer would be prevented from touching the ground; and

(b)there would be some residual steering of the trailer.

(3) No person shall use or cause or permit to be used on a road a motor vehicle drawing one trailer if—

(a)the trailer is a trailer to which regulation 15 applies;

(b)the trailer is fitted with a device which is designed to stop the trailer automatically in the event of the separation of the main coupling while the trailer is in motion;

(c)the operation of the device in those circumstances depends upon a secondary coupling linking the device to the motor vehicle; and

(d)the trailer is not also fitted with a device which is designed to stop the trailer automatically in those circumstances in the absence of such a secondary coupling,”

 

[eddie]

Trailers under don’t need a breakaway system, but they do need a secondary coupling!

Isn't the lack of brakeaway system the thing your complaining about on your one example?

You guys just keep on shooting yourselves in the foot….

See above

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