A TOWED CARS PRODUCT RECALL

[Realist]

I can understand the reasoning being safety for all that use A Frames but this guy must of been rubbing his hands together when he first read the original post from the women who had the issue.

He is hell bent on winning his argument about A Frames and I’m sure he dreams about the day they get banned in the U.K.

And that day will be a real shame where customers will loose thousands, job losses, companies gone by the way side.

If that day comes and I hope not it will be a day of shame.

 

[tonka]

I can understand the reasoning being safety for all that use A Frames but this guy must of been rubbing his hands together when he first read the original post from the women who had the issue.

He is hell bent on winning his argument about A Frames and I’m sure he dreams about the day they get banned in the U.K.

And that day will be a real shame where customers will loose thousands, job losses, companies gone by the way side.

If that day comes and I hope not it will be a day of shame.

I happened to see this shared on another facebook group yesterday, clicking his profile showed :
" Former proprietor at Towbars & Trailers Chesterfield."
Genuine consern or some axe to grind...
My only issue with this is the way its being passed about on facebook as a genuine recall, where as i see thats its just been a request so far.

 

[Minxy]

Hang on you lot! Regardless of who has requested this recall, it appears to be for a very good reason - namely to ensure that the breakaway cable us fitted to all installations thus a safety issue to prevent what happened to the car recently which could have killed someone!!!

There are likely more vehicles out there with this issue which owners are unaware of so if it makes just one check who has a similar set up to the recent car owner and prevents a similar occurrence it is worth this being publicised.

Instead of slagging off another funster, which being a personal sleight could easily get you banned not to mention how distasteful it is, why not put your own bias aside and see the bigger picture.

 

[jezport]

Who wins the argument is not important, but the original poster has a clear message. If your A Frame has no break away braking system, it is dangerous.

 

[Minxy]

He is hell bent on winning his argument about A Frames and I’m sure he dreams about the day they get banned in the U.K.

No. He's just trying to make them safer!!!!

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[Larrynwin]

This is a repeat of the A Frame Disaster thread (Oct 30th this year ) with Tony Maris / Tony Emm attempting to prove just how dangerous this system is but so far just one example has been produced , now for the second time of a poor installation which has failed over time due to rust etc.

If there are more examples of poor installations or accidents by all means warn us but if there is not a problem why attempt to create one .

 

[Jamesh]

I really feel Theonlysue have the wrong company. Towbars2towcars have fitted their system onto 3 Picantos we have owned over 9 years. All had the ring breakaway system fitted and had nothing to do with this single problem.

I'm no lawyer but it must be getting close to libel, to defame a company, imitating the VOSA suggesting a recall has been instructed.....

I don't have a A frame but it seems bit unfair....

Let due process take place.

 

[pappajohn]

Who wins the argument is not important, but the original poster has a clear message. If your A Frame has no break away braking system, it is dangerous.

Then all A frames are dangerous.
None have a breakaway system in the event of A frame failure causing it to depart from the toad/trailer and I can't see any possible way to do it.
They all have a system if the A frame detaches at the towball.

 

[Phill D]

My only issue with this is that it is suggesting that a recall has been made by the VSD and DVSA, and as far as I can see that is misleading and untrue.
It is right to bring such issues to users attention, however it appears the core purpose of the statement is to infer government agency support that is not there.
That then makes this disengenous.

 

[Larrynwin]

Then all A frames are dangerous.
None have a breakaway system in the event of A frame failure causing it to depart from the toad/trailer and I can't see any possible way to do it.
They all have a system if the A frame detaches at the towball.

Not so.
With an in car independent braking system , eg Brake Buddy, RVi brake etc , powered by the car in the very unlikely event of the car separating from the a frame the breakaway cable attached to the rear of the motorhome and the front of the car the system would automatically bring the car to a stop.

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[DuxDeluxe]

Not so.
With an in car independent braking system , eg Brake Buddy, RVi brake etc , powered by the car in the very unlikely event of the car separating from the a frame the breakaway cable attached to the rear of the motorhome and the front of the car the system would automatically bring the car to a stop.

That is 100% correct with that sort of system - the breakaway cable is totally independent of the A frame itself

 

[DDJC]

We used the named supplier, and my only criticism of them was the inaccurate info they provided about car suitability and A-Framing in Europe. Unfortunately this was an integral part of their sales technique.

1. Just don't even think of converting an auto car with a push button ignition. No matter what the fitter says in his sales pitch, just don't do it.
2. A frames are not legal in many countries in Europe. Ignore whatever they say. A Frames are NOT legal in many countries in Europe.

The happy news about them is that they have excellent technical ability and their product worked perfectly (when used correctly). So fine for UK use (we also used it in Ireland), on a manual car, with a key ignition.

 

[Larrynwin]

.

 

[charliesgrandad]

I have had two cars fitted with a frame by http://www.tow-bars2tow-cars.com/ the first in 2010 and both times it has had a breakaway brake fitted, and I have ad reminders to have my system serviced which I have adhered to, I can only say for myself that the company have always treated me with respect and professionalism,and nothing is too much trouble if you have a problem
I personally think it is out of order for someone to make posts on FB or others that are presented to appear as official documents

 

[Geo]

A certain persons statements of late have become delusional
he has adopted a position of authority he has no right to claim
despite his past Trailer and Chairmanship of some trailer governing body, (there lies half his problem)
If you read him right he doesn't want them banning, he wants to control them.
his ranting and posts are so full of technical errors he himself has become the danger in A Framing
spreading alarm and fear where none exists, I've said before he is a leg end in his own lunch time.
His reply to genuine comments are more often off track than on and he replies in posts of different topics about unrelated subjects constantly referring to his expertise in Trailer Law and construction
A bit like applying steam engine regs to Chinese 200MPH Trains, similar but not relevant
The disaster of which he NOW claims had "Pedestrians running for there lives" his words not mine was the result of.
1. Poor design
2. Poor installation practices
3. Incomplete installation
The likes i have never seen before or since.
His attempts to report and instigate recall will I'm sure fall on deaf ears.
I as a VOSA approved vehicle examiner have had cause to report many such defects using the defect report system specially set up for our use, some far more worrying than the exceptionally rare occasions of A frame detachment,
the best i ever got was dont worry you spotted it were sure others will too ut the majority didn't even warrant a reply.
Also consider what is the percentage of Motor Homers using A frames circa 5% at a wild guess,
yet 95% seem to have an opinion and the majority are against A framing without any personal knowledge or engineering skill
Fear not, A framing is safe, it works very well for 99.9% of users
Give it a go you wont regret it.

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[Geo]

His latest is to recommend a certain A frame manufacturer because " They are the only ones who have their crash beams tested"
Do they really !!? To what standard and to what aim?
A Frames are unregulated Tony thats your gripe

 

[icantremember]

A certain persons statements of late have become delusional
he has adopted a position of authority he has no right to claim
despite his past Trailer and Chairmanship of some trailer governing body, (there lies half his problem)
If you read him right he doesn't want them banning, he wants to control them.
his ranting and posts are so full of technical errors he himself has become the danger in A Framing
spreading alarm and fear where none exists, I've said before he is a leg end in his own lunch time.
His reply to genuine comments are more often off track than on and he replies in posts of different topics about unrelated subjects constantly referring to his expertise in Trailer Law and construction
A bit like applying steam engine regs to Chinese 200MPH Trains, similar but not relevant
The disaster of which he NOW claims had "Pedestrians running for there lives" his words not mine was the result of.
1. Poor design
2. Poor installation practices
3. Incomplete installation
The likes i have never seen before or since.
His attempts to report and instigate recall will I'm sure fall on deaf ears.
I as a VOSA approved vehicle examiner have had cause to report many such defects using the defect report system specially set up for our use, some far more worrying than the exceptionally rare occasions of A frame detachment,
the best i ever got was dont worry you spotted it were sure others will too ut the majority didn't even warrant a reply.
Also consider what is the percentage of Motor Homers using A frames circa 5% at a wild guess,
yet 95% seem to have an opinion and the majority are against A framing without any personal knowledge or engineering skill
Fear not, A framing is safe, it works very well for 99.9% of users
Give it a go you wont regret it.

I agree completely Geo .. only I reckon you should add to your list .....
4. Lack of maintenance which appears to be the case in this instance.

 

[Geo]

I agree completely Geo .. only I reckon you should add to your list .....
4. Lack of maintenance which appears to be the case in this instance.

Your not wrong BUT
What failed was a really crap choice of metal to weld too.
Welding to that thickness of steel immediately causes a weak spot its self
had something been bolted instead it may have survived, its all speculation
An inspection may have spotted cracks sooner, but when how often
its quite a job to get to see the inner workings on some cars

 

[DDJC]

Fear not, A framing is safe, it works very well for 99.9% of users

Having used trailer and A Frame, I agree that A Frames are safe, as long as you fit them to an appropriate car, and then use them carefully. I don't understand why some folk are so vehemently opposed to them. We had ours fitted it to the wrong car, simple as that. But I have to say that we queried our choice of car with the fitters before we even bought the car. Shouldn't have trusted the dealer. Never going to make that mistake again.

My conclusion is therefore that A Frames are safe and convenient, and that someone in the Govt should decide once and for all on their legality and establish fitting standards. However, don't listen to dealers. They are there to make money out of you. Do your own research on legality and car choice.

 

[TonyEmm]

I happened to see this shared on another facebook group yesterday, clicking his profile showed :
" Former proprietor at Towbars & Trailers Chesterfield."
Genuine consern or some axe to grind...
My only issue with this is the way its being passed about on facebook as a genuine recall, where as i see thats its just been a request so far.

Yet again one of my FB posts stolen! This time misrepresented too. If it had been copied IN FULL, you would notice a question mark!

“Product Recall

Following a recent catastrophic failure of an a-frame towed car I have, this week, formally called upon Trading Standards and the Vehicle Safety Branch (VSB) of the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA) to implement a PRODUCT RECALL on specific a-frame installations.”

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[TonyEmm]

From fb; Tony Maris

Product Recall.

Following a recent catastrophic failure of an a-frame towed car I have, this week, formally called upon Trading Standards and the Vehicle Safety Branch (VSB) of the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA) to implement a PRODUCT RECALL on specific a-frame installations.

The towed car suffered a sudden and unpredictable failure of the a-frame to car interface, apparently caused by a combination of poor welding, lack of corrosion protection and various stresses imposed, but CRUCIALLY, it should have had an emergency breakaway system installed in accordance with the Road Vehicles (construction & use) regulations 1986 [and amendments] and COMMISSION DIRECTIVE 98/12/EC.

The object of the emergency breakaway system is to stop the ‘trailer’ in it’s tracks and prevent the ‘trailer’ literally breaking away and going wherever, in this case mounting a pavement and scattering pedestrians.

The number of vehicles affected is currently unknown but if your vehicle is one, a simple visual inspection will identify it.

Do NOT rely on any written statements like “Automatically sets itself up” or “Break-away safety features built in”. Without the ring highlighted, it has no emergency braking in place!

The product is from a company known as Towbars2Towcars, Grimsby. Their standard practice would be to install the emergency breakaway facility, identifiable by a ring ‘mini-cable-tied’ to the vehicles front grill, adjacent to the 13 pin electrical socket.
The ring is for the attachment of a supplied, breakaway cable. SEE PHOTO.

if your vehicle was converted by this company and is lacking the ring, it is ESSENTIAL that your car is drawn to their attention with a view to being modified.

Failure to act is putting LIVES AT RISK!

 

[TonyEmm]

From fb; Tony Maris

Product Recall.

Following a recent catastrophic failure of an a-frame towed car I have, this week, formally called upon Trading Standards and the Vehicle Safety Branch (VSB) of the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA) to implement a PRODUCT RECALL on specific a-frame installations.

The towed car suffered a sudden and unpredictable failure of the a-frame to car interface, apparently caused by a combination of poor welding, lack of corrosion protection and various stresses imposed, but CRUCIALLY, it should have had an emergency breakaway system installed in accordance with the Road Vehicles (construction & use) regulations 1986 [and amendments] and COMMISSION DIRECTIVE 98/12/EC.

Failure to act is putting LIVES AT RISK!

 

[icantremember]

“Product Recall ?

Am I wrong in thinking you added the ? after you originally posted your FB screed?

 

[TonyEmm]

If you check my post on FB you will note a after “Product Recall”. And my first sentence says “I have called for a product recall……. Etc etc…”. Whether there will be one or not is up to the DVSA VSB division, not me….
I realise there is a lot of aggression on this forum every time someone says anything remotely thought to be anti-frame, but in this instance, a company has failed to fit a legally required breakaway system. There are an unknown number of other vehicles out there with the same issue. I know neither the number involved, or over what period. Assuming the company kept records, they should be able to advise what vehicles are involved.
BUT, the point of my post is that you can do a simple check yourself to see if your vehicle is affected. If your towed car has a ring ‘mini-cable-tied’ to the grill, adjacent to the 13 pin socket, then you HAVE a breakaway system installed. If your vehicle is MISSING the ring, it has no breakaway system. The car would need to be returned to the installers for inspection and modification.

it’s a simple message!!

#TowLegal #TowSafe #towsafe4freddie

 

[TonyEmm]

Am I wrong in thinking you added the ? after you originally posted your FB screed?

You’re not wrong, I did edit it but very quickly. It’s common practice on both FB and here to edit posts!!

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[TonyEmm]

Oddly enough this companies installation do not include a “Handbrake “ set up on the tow bar. If the towed car is defined as a trailer then one should be fitted. I don’t know how they get around this.
Anybody know the answer?

Handbrakes are only fitted on inertia braked systems. Electronic activated systems ‘usually’ have a hand-grenade style pin that the breakaway cable attaches to. if that is pulled out, it kicks starts the braking mechanism which then depresses the brake pedal.

Note however, it relies on decent voltage in the towed cars battery to operate, and if (when) it depletes, the brakes WILL release.
An inertia handbrake mechanically locks the brakes and will stay that way until over-ridden.

 

[tonka]

Tony, I think the issue was that it got shared very quickly and because it was phrased as a "product recall". People trying to be helpful and share important info copied it very quickly.
The question mark was added
3 1/2 hours later but by then it had been shared a lot.

 

[TonyEmm]

Gosh I would expect the VSB to look at the evidence one break a way car, a car converted 10 years ago, and hit the panic button

The point of the post, if you read it, is that there are more out there. It’s an unknown number as the company have not commented. Also, I’ve no idea over what period of time. There is no way of knowing if all are 10 years old or not.
The whole point of the post is that is very easy to check! You only need to look at the front grill, no dismantling required!!

 

[Larrynwin]

 

[TonyEmm]

I went to Towbars2Towcars due to their reputation and product engineering prowess and have not been disappointed,with my choice over the course of many thousands of towed toad miles.

It is unfortunate that this deluded individual who clearly has an axe to grind when it comes to A Frames and purports to be an expert in all things towed wise is allowed to besmirch a company's reputation just to feed his ego

I've had him on my ignore list for some time now, due to his intransigence on the A frame subject.

Rant over.

I have no axe to grind, I’m long out of the rat-race!
I have not ‘besmirched’ any company. The fact is that in this instance and possibly numerous others, they failed to install a critical safety item that, incidentally, is legally required.
Any repercussions for the company are entirely down to their own failure.
Luckily, no one was killed or even injured, but it could have been so different.

Have a look at the attached. Is this your idea of ‘engineering prowess’?

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