A letter to clubs about site prices (3 Viewers)

[billym]

"Most local councils have now opened their car parks for overnight parking for MH’s and charge a lot less than camp sites so it is a matter of choice. You just will not have any facilities at all or the security most sites offer." SalcombeRegis - I dont think this is true at all. In Lincolnshire, for example, where I live, many car parks have been closed to mohos even during the day, let alone at night.

That may be so but this bit is unquestionably true

....there are chancers out there that ruin it for the majority - so you end up with one rule for all.

 

[nickq]

Having been at the receiving end of this very point on many occasions, it would only work if you had a dedicated overnight parking area that was separate from the rest of the Park. I say this because after having this debate with motor-homers claiming they will not be using the facilities, you then witness them coming out of the shower block with a towel over their shoulder and when leaving putting all sorts of rubbish/chairs/tables next to the waste points for us to dispose of, walking the dog in our dedicated dog walking area and using our bins and bags for dog waste, dumping their grey water and filling their tanks with over 100 litres of fresh water.

The amount of times I had to remind a customer that they had not paid for electric but were plugged in was more than you would imagine and the excuse was always “I changed my mind and was coming to see you”.

I know I am generalising and mostly deal with honest people but there are chancers out there that ruin it for the majority - so you end up with one rule for all.

The next consideration is that an overnight space that you are sleeping in still requires the 6m gap between units. Really difficult to do and most sites don’t comply with that anyway and use 3m. Each parking space would really have to be a minimum 6m and park in the middle.

Most local councils have now opened their car parks for overnight parking for MH’s and charge a lot less than camp sites so it is a matter of choice. You just will not have any facilities at all or the security most sites offer.

I think your example of all the stuff left by the bins is indeed a minority. 100L of water costs around 13.5p in the UK (business rates).

 

[sunni4610]

A number of people who frequented the tea tent at the Newbury Show were commenting on the rise in pitch fees. I don't stop on many sites so can't really comment.

If this is the case I thought I'd write to the two big clubs and try and get some reasoning for this. I know we have some wages inflation as well as higher electricity costs, but I suspect, like a lot of industries there might be a bit of "Greedflation" in their prices.

To give my letter some legitimacy it would be nice to know what proportion of our membership are their members, so please choose an option above.

Also can you let us know about some of the increases you have seen. Thanks

 

[Wee Bold Davy]

I gave up on my CCC membership a few years back when they decided on 2 night minimum stay on all their sites in Scotland except Dingwall, not much good if you've got a very limited time to tour, it certainly would suite caravaners better.
I'm far from happy with the CAMC price hike which I think has got as much to do with installing glamping pods which I know are expensive as the company I worked for make them. The club can also charge funny money for them, so it's all about profit rather than looking after 'club' members interests.
Also the 21 day refund cancellation policy is overkill. I agree with paying a deposit but I'm sure the demand is sufficient to resell that pitch in 7 - 10 days. Fortunately I've never had to cancel but with the average age of the members being the wrong side of 50, health issues are more likely to raise their heads and having to cancel more than 21 days before your trip so as not to lose your deposit is punishing the older members.
I'm seriously thinking of cancelling my CAMC membership

 

[Molly A]

Prices were inevitably going to rise significantly. Having just sold a Park in Devon it was a full time job to keep up to speed with rising costs. It is not just about energy costs but every other single cost we experience. The two that most people overlook is Rates and Insurance. These have gone through the roof.

My rates last year were £26,000 and insurance £8,000. That is £34,000 I had to recoup in a 7 month season. Our peak rate was £36 for an electric pitch which means after VAT we got £30. To put it into perspective I had to sell 1,133 nights just to satisfy only 2 overheads. The rest add up to significantly more.

Whereas I accept that Europe are cheaper you have to one get there but also they have a longer season to recoup their costs. It is a lot to take on as we have not seen rises like this for years but in the UK if they don’t put up prices they will not be in business too long.

Another consideration is that customer expectations are higher and parks have to keep high standards. I reinvested £750,000 back into the Park over a 9 year period that came from pitch fees. It is not all about profiteering.

I'm sorry that the business environment was tough for you in recent years. Business rates are, indeed an absolute killer for smaller businesses, as are the disgraceful increase in utility costs which have been imposed on us over the last year, which, generally, have not been so severe in our european neighbours.
Interested in your assertion around the length if season in Europe.... Aires do tend to be available all year round but most campsites in France seem to be closed from end of September, and rarely open before the beginning of May. Same in Italy

I note your points but not everyone wants to travel abroad for various personal reasons.

It doesn’t make them ‘blinkered’, it means they are enjoying their time in this country even if it costs

Having been at the receiving end of this very point on many occasions, it would only work if you had a dedicated overnight parking area that was separate from the rest of the Park. I say this because after having this debate with motor-homers claiming they will not be using the facilities, you then witness them coming out of the shower block with a towel over their shoulder and when leaving putting all sorts of rubbish/chairs/tables next to the waste points for us to dispose of, walking the dog in our dedicated dog walking area and using our bins and bags for dog waste, dumping their grey water and filling their tanks with over 100 litres of fresh water.

The amount of times I had to remind a customer that they had not paid for electric but were plugged in was more than you would imagine and the excuse was always “I changed my mind and was coming to see you”.

I know I am generalising and mostly deal with honest people but there are chancers out there that ruin it for the majority - so you end up with one rule for all.

The next consideration is that an overnight space that you are sleeping in still requires the 6m gap between units. Really difficult to do and most sites don’t comply with that anyway and use 3m. Each parking space would really have to be a minimum 6m and park in the middle.

Most local councils have now opened their car parks for overnight parking for MH’s and charge a lot less than camp sites so it is a matter of choice. You just will not have any facilities at all or the security most sites offer.

Most ? I don't think so.....

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[Molly A]

I note your points but not everyone wants to travel abroad for various personal reasons.

It doesn’t make them ‘blinkered’, it means they are enjoying their time in this country even if it costs more.

I was merely reflecting and responding to tbe language of the poster to whom I was answering, who accused us 'europhiles' of being blinkered....

 

[Molly A]

This was Easter weekend for Caravan. Grass pitch no electricity. Ridiculous. View attachment 757780

That is a disgrace and substantiated what many of us have said....

 

[Outdoors Dad]

I'm sorry that the business environment was tough for you in recent years. Business rates are, indeed an absolute killer for smaller businesses, as are the disgraceful increase in utility costs which have been imposed on us over the last year, which, generally, have not been so severe in our european neighbours.
Interested in your assertion around the length if season in Europe.... Aires do tend to be available all year round but most campsites in France seem to be closed from end of September, and rarely open before the beginning of May. Same in Italy

Prices were inevitably going to rise significantly. Having just sold a Park in Devon it was a full time job to keep up to speed with rising costs. It is not just about energy costs but every other single cost we experience. The two that most people overlook is Rates and Insurance. These have gone through the roof.

My rates last year were £26,000 and insurance £8,000. That is £34,000 I had to recoup in a 7 month season. Our peak rate was £36 for an electric pitch which means after VAT we got £30. To put it into perspective I had to sell 1,133 nights just to satisfy only 2 overheads. The rest add up to significantly more.

Whereas I accept that Europe are cheaper you have to one get there but also they have a longer season to recoup their costs. It is a lot to take on as we have not seen rises like this for years but in the UK if they don’t put up prices they will not be in business too long.

Another consideration is that customer expectations are higher and parks have to keep high standards. I reinvested £750,000 back into the Park over a 9 year period that came from pitch fees. It is not all about profiteering.

Excuse my ignorance but I thought business rates only applied to shops etc???

 

[wp1234]

This was Easter weekend for Caravan. Grass pitch no electricity. Ridiculous. View attachment 757780

Well that’s all the proof I need , the ‘ Club’ is ripping its members off big time !

 

[IRHP]

I'm in Spain just now and it's not until you've been here that you realise how much we are being overcharged in the UK. we've been on fantastic sites with ehu. Beachside locations and on one occasion a beachside pitch and all for around €20 a night.

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[Coastal Cruiser.]

Earlier in the year we visited Henley.

CAMC and independent (Swiss Farm) are next to each other. About the same price. CAMC is very run down. Independent had fully serviced, Restaurant on site, Immaculate facilities, Bigger pitches, Very large dog walk, Big field for children to play in. The independent is even closer to the town centre.

We'll return to Swiss Farm.

Exactly what I thought a few months back when we went to Swiss Farm, walked along to the garden centre and popped my head into the CAMC site, was very suprised how tatty it was and it didn’t look very inviting .
Swiss farm on the other hand was very good with a cracking cafe

 

[Btg]

Just cancelled my cmc they said on the phone thanks for being a member for the last 15 yrs bye and that was that ,

 

[JockandRita]

Just cancelled my cmc they said on the phone thanks for being a member for the last 15 yrs bye and that was that ,

I never even got that after 25 x years of membership. They clearly weren't in the slightest bit interested in why a long serving member was leaving. It's certainly not been our loss.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[hja]

I understand why people compare uk site prices to those “over there”. It is very relevant when you are deciding where to go on your trips. I also think CAMC club site fees are too high. However, overall, I am not convinced it is correct to talk about being overcharged or ripped off. More expensive, possibly, although there seem to be quite a lot of expensive sites in places like Italy and Switzerland. Some countries are more expensive than others. The uk is expensive. There are no doubt lots of underlying reasons for that, related to things like rates, land prices, etc that all contribute to costs. Being ripped off or overcharged sounds like sites are indulging in sharp practice and I am not sure, that on the whole, that is true. But I repeat, expensive, yes.

 

[Lenny HB]

I understand why people compare uk site prices to those “over there”. It is very relevant when you are deciding where to go on your trips. I also think CAMC club site fees are too high. However, overall, I am not convinced it is correct to talk about being overcharged or ripped off. More expensive, possibly, although there seem to be quite a lot of expensive sites in places like Italy and Switzerland. Some countries are more expensive than others. The uk is expensive. There are no doubt lots of underlying reasons for that, related to things like rates, land prices, etc that all contribute to costs. Being ripped off or overcharged sounds like sites are indulging in sharp practice and I am not sure, that on the whole, that is true. But I repeat, expensive, yes.

Italy and Switzerland have always been expensive for sites so not really relevant.

In France, Spain & Portugal food prices have gone up just like here, probably bigger increases than we have seen here. However campsite prices have not risen at all, so why in the UK, just seem like profiting jumping on the stay location bandwagon during Covid

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[chaser]

Just a small point about these clubs, if you join other clubs ,not necessarily MH related you expect to pay discounted prices not inflated ones.

 

[Molly A]

I understand why people compare uk site prices to those “over there”. It is very relevant when you are deciding where to go on your trips. I also think CAMC club site fees are too high. However, overall, I am not convinced it is correct to talk about being overcharged or ripped off. More expensive, possibly, although there seem to be quite a lot of expensive sites in places like Italy and Switzerland. Some countries are more expensive than others. The uk is expensive. There are no doubt lots of underlying reasons for that, related to things like rates, land prices, etc that all contribute to costs. Being ripped off or overcharged sounds like sites are indulging in sharp practice and I am not sure, that on the whole, that is true. But I repeat, expensive, yes.

Switzerland is expensive for pretty much everything. We stayed with a friend who lives 45 minutes south of Basle and supermarket prices and eating out is stratospheric compared to France and Italy.A pizza, albeit a very nice one, and a glass of wine was over 30europer person. The only place we have stayed on a site is in Altdorf and it is generally about 32 euros all services included, which isn't excessive. I have never paid more than 35 euros in Italy, and that was on Lake Maggiore in height of August two years ago.The three sites we stayed at on our way to Bari last week, were 25 euros for a site with amazing facilities in San Marino, 23 euros for a beautiful little site in Cologna Spiaggia, on the beach with great facilities included, and 20 euros for amazing site in an olive grove with its own rocky cove and little beach area with all facilities included, near Manfredonia, North of Bari. None of these can be called expensive, and were way cheaper than we could have found for a comparable site in the UK. All European countries are suffering from inflation, all are suffering from energy increases although it would appear a deal less than the UK, so why are we seeing what can well be described as profiteering from UK sites?

 

[Molly A]

I never even got that after 25 x years of membership. They clearly weren't in the slightest bit interested in why a long serving member was leaving. It's certainly not been our loss.

Cheers,

Jock.

That tells you all you need to know, they have no retention strategy and don't care less...

 

[Wee Bold Davy]

That tells you all you need to know, they have no retention strategy and don't care less...

Sounds like my last employer who forced me into early retirement. They had over 100 employees and can't hold onto them (does nothing for maintaining quality) I had 7 years service and was the 5th longest serving and the longest had 18 years, by far the longest service. We were the 2 oldest employees and despite doing an extremely physically demanding job they decided to increase the working week from 40 to 48 hours, sign a new contract or there's the door!
Of course we signed the contract, after 6 weeks it was obvious we were physically struggling. I was living on painkillers just to get through the day. We went to management to ask if we could go back to 40 hours. They refused stating that the extra hours allowed them to fulfill their contracts. The thing about it was many of the younger guys had already been doing 48 hours with those extra hours being paid at time and a half! Now they were doing it for single time.
They allowed us to leave without even a thank you. Their loss, they lost 2 guys who had a first rate attendance record, who's work ethic and quality couldn't be questioned, who's vast experience of every aspect of the job lost forever! Very short sighted considering the multimillion £s contracts they had.
Best thing I ever did

 

[seasideBill]

Switzerland is expensive for pretty much everything. We stayed with a friend who lives 45 minutes south of Basle and supermarket prices and eating out is stratospheric compared to France and Italy.A pizza, albeit a very nice one, and a glass of wine was over 30europer person. The only place we have stayed on a site is in Altdorf and it is generally about 32 euros all services included, which isn't excessive. I have never paid more than 35 euros in Italy, and that was on Lake Maggiore in height of August two years ago.The three sites we stayed at on our way to Bari last week, were 25 euros for a site with amazing facilities in San Marino, 23 euros for a beautiful little site in Cologna Spiaggia, on the beach with great facilities included, and 20 euros for amazing site in an olive grove with its own rocky cove and little beach area with all facilities included, near Manfredonia, North of Bari. None of these can be called expensive, and were way cheaper than we could have found for a comparable site in the UK. All European countries are suffering from inflation, all are suffering from energy increases although it would appear a deal less than the UK, so why are we seeing what can well be described as profiteering from UK sites?

Biggest shock in Switzerland was the price of anything with meat. I’d have to become a veggie if I spent much time there.

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[seasideBill]

That tells you all you need to know, they have no retention strategy and don't care less...

They’ll come a point at which they’ll need to care, they just haven’t reached it yet. It will be a lightbulb moment of the kind that politicians have after by-elections when they realise most folks (members) despise them.

 

[Swifter]

Just cancelled my cmc they said on the phone thanks for being a member for the last 15 yrs bye and that was that ,

Wow . Great customer retention department! What a joke ! 15 years !

 

[Swifter]

Biggest shock in Switzerland was the price of anything with meat. I’d have to become a veggie if I spent much time there.

 

[pxh38257]

We are members of both but am thinking about getting rid of one or even both next year. I’m always shocked as to why both charge for the other half but normally the dog is free. I understand that the wardens need and deserve a pay rise and electric costs more but a nights stay that last year cost £26 now costs £36 is far more than a 30% increase. As the cost of electric is coming down will the cost of a night get cheaper.? No.

 

[CazPaul]

Just a small point about these clubs, if you join other clubs ,not necessarily MH related you expect to pay discounted prices not inflated ones.

Have you seen what they charge if you are not a member? It’s extortionate.

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[Harrogate motorhomer]

My best guess is that they’re hoping good weather & new members will fill their sites & the moaning OAP’S will eventually come round to their way of thinking. This maybe short sighted as we’re the ones that book the sites midweek. So far this year we are about 10 nights down with them & will be looking to book alternatives when back from France.

 

[Reallyretired]

Finally got round to cancelling C&CC today. We only ever used them for Setthorns, the only site we used in the UK.
Cancelled C&MC many years ago.
So changed my vote.

 

[CJK]

A number of people who frequented the tea tent at the Newbury Show were commenting on the rise in pitch fees. I don't stop on many sites so can't really comment.

If this is the case I thought I'd write to the two big clubs and try and get some reasoning for this. I know we have some wages inflation as well as higher electricity costs, but I suspect, like a lot of industries there might be a bit of "Greedflation" in their prices.

To give my letter some legitimacy it would be nice to know what proportion of our membership are their members, so please choose an option above.

Also can you let us know about some of the increases you have seen. Thanks

We’re still in CAMC but only just. The prices are higher now and it annoys me that the basic price is a unit and just one person and that the booking system is now so inflexible (though part of that change is because some punters abused the system). However, I have used the legal helpline a few times this year and have been grateful for that.

 

[Lenny HB]

Finally got round to cancelling C&CC today. We only ever used them for Setthorns, the only site we used in the UK.

We only really used them for Setthorns but the last couple of years have used THS's and the discount on one tunnel crossing gets back our 25 quid membership fee.