A Frame Disaster

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teddybear said:
Used to be able to put a 40/45ft trailer within an inch of where I wanted. The car trailer behind the motorhome was a lot harder.
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I can put a draw bar anywhere you want it , trailer , caravan , 25ft goods trailer . I'm not gonna count a 45ft articulated double deck , as the reversing technique is total different . However when a German offered me a job 30 years ago driving lorry and drag , i turned it down despite the money being really good at the time , it was an A frame trailer with steering front axle . I did once have occasion to drive his outfit when the foreman asked me to bring it in for them one Christmas . To which i replied this should be funny !
The loading bay was nearly a quarter of a mile long , do you think i could get the trailer straight on the dock , nah . At 60ft long i didn't have the space to back it straight , and it was a left hooker . Had every bugger from the warehouse watching me , though i did get a round of applause when i finally managed it . Out on the road , no chance . I'm not confident i will be able to get out of a tight loading bay i may easily get into .

I won't put a trailer behind my van , too much of a busman's holiday , and i don't need a car either .
 
The original post was mine, on a private Facebook group.

while I’m keen to spread the word about towing safety (it is after all, a 30 year campaign of mine) now is not the time to say too much.

The owner is trying to open a line of communication with the original supplier of (brand new) car and a-frame. Currently, all they have received is a tirade of abuse over the phone. They have another opportunity. If that’s not taken, then the discussion may able to open up.

I note from some of the posts, folk are referring to the breakaway cable as if it were an inertia braked trailer. It wasn’t. This was an electronic braked a -frame.

Even with a catastrophic Incident like this, there should have been emergency braking to at least stop the car, there wasn’t. This was not user error.

Hopefully, I shall be able to discuss it further in due course.

I would appreciate if any speculation is kept to yourselves for now. Give the owners of the vehicle a chance to have a meaningful conversation with the company,

Thanks Guys!
 
jockaneezer said:
It seems it can be done satisfactorily ?
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I find this clip very very interesting.. not because they are reversing but because it is a Suzuki Jimmy.. I have had 2 of these cars and the owners manual was very very clear.. Never tow with 4 wheels on ground!

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TonyEmm said:
The original post was mine, on a private Facebook group.

while I’m keen to spread the word about towing safety (it is after all, a 30 year campaign of mine) now is not the time to say too much.

The owner is trying to open a line of communication with the original supplier of (brand new) car and a-frame. Currently, all they have received is a tirade of abuse over the phone. They have another opportunity. If that’s not taken, then the discussion may able to open up.

I note from some of the posts, folk are referring to the breakaway cable as if it were an inertia braked trailer. It wasn’t. This was an electronic braked a -frame.

Even with a catastrophic Incident like this, there should have been emergency braking to at least stop the car, there wasn’t. This was not user error.

Hopefully, I shall be able to discuss it further in due course.

I would appreciate if any speculation is kept to yourselves for now. Give the owners of the vehicle a chance to have a meaningful conversation with the company,

Thanks Guys!
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If you don’t want comments why post it on here ?
There’s a lot of fake news and scaremongering going the internet about aframes
 
Sandyt said:

Thought that this may interest / amuse.
In Oz, they do this with triples and quads!
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You have got to take your hat off to that bloke.
Love to try it but don't think I would get very far. (y)
 
poppycamper said:
I find this clip very very interesting.. not because they are reversing but because it is a Suzuki Jimmy.. I have had 2 of these cars and the owners manual was very very clear.. Never tow with 4 wheels on ground!
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We had a Grand Vitara and fitted freewheel hubs on the front axle. These disconnected the drive to the wheel hub and could be manually locked. We did it to enable use of 4wd on tarmac so we could use low ratio gears for towing, especially reversing slowly.
Cant see from video but perhaps they fitted some?
 
SandraL said:
We had a Grand Vitara and fitted freewheel hubs on the front axle. These disconnected the drive to the wheel hub and could be manually locked. We did it to enable use of 4wd on tarmac so we could use low ratio gears for towing, especially reversing slowly.
Cant see from video but perhaps they fitted some?
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If memory serves Jimny is rear wheel drive and front hubs are engaged pneumaticcly by driver. Therefore in essence free wheel hubs.... Still said never tow with 4 wheels on ground.
 
Conniedriving said:
If you don’t want comments why post it on here ?
There’s a lot of fake news and scaremongering going the internet about aframes
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I didn’t post it, it was a screenshot by someone else of a post in a private Facebook group! What I’m asking for now is that time is given for the user to try and settle things with the suppliers!

BTW, if you think this is scaremongering, then think again. Have some empathy for the unfortunate users…

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Conal said:
Landy Andy My understanding is that the longer the distance between the hitch point and the towed wheels, the harder it is to reverse. A small trailer would be just as difficult for me. I would agree with you if there was no way of solving the problem of not being able to reverse. I don’t see why anyone just object to someone else solving their own problems without inconveniencing others.
There are also people who think only those who know how to fix cars should be allowed to drive them, and that everyone should be able to replace a punctured wheel. I am not one of them.
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Quite the reverse(;)). The longer the trailer the easier it is to reverse simply because it is less reactive to your steering inputs. Having said that, it's all about practice really. I have never towed a car on an A-frame but I can't see how you could reverse easily. Surely, just as the front wheels steer when you are going forwards (due to caster angle/trail) they will spin to full lock if you reverse.
 
I’m waiting till Tuesday when the company that allegedly fitted the aframe will be named
But I don’t think that will happen
 
RobbieBobby said:
Quite the reverse(;)). The longer the trailer the easier it is to reverse simply because it is less reactive to your steering inputs. Having said that, it's all about practice really. I have never towed a car on an A-frame but I can't see how you could reverse easily. Surely, just as the front wheels steer when you are going forwards (due to caster angle/trail) they will spin to full lock if you reverse.
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If you look at the video of the reversing you will see the car wheels suddenly pull off centre after he has made it round the corner, luckily he/she pulled forward at that point and they quickly corrected.

Edit. ps I totally agree with you about the longer the trailer the easier it gets.
 
He’s back :LOL: a mountain from a molehill again and more scaremongering. One dodgy job from many good ones and it’s the end of the world as we know it:sleep:

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Landy Andy said:
Three thoughts. The corrosion is pretty much only where the fixings went through so they’ve probably drilled holes and then not protected the holes. It’s been failing for a while, so hasn’t been checked on. Also these systems are dangerous and should not be allowed.
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Doesn’t say much for the Mot tester who supposed to be checking for severe rust and structural corrosion....just sayin.
 
A 10 year old car is not elderly at all, the installer should have ensured that the car was in a sound state first.
The owner should also have checked the car likewise the garage who did the M.O.T. s
Glad all are involved are ok and thankfully no one hurt.
Other owners should be checking there cars and A frames now.
 
tjay said:
A 10 year old car is not elderly at all, the installer should have ensured that the car was in a sound state first.
The owner should also have checked the car likewise the garage who did the M.O.T. s
Glad all are involved are ok and thankfully no one hurt.
Other owners should be checking there cars and A frames now.
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I don't suppose there is any provision in the mot for checking such a thing as it wouldn't be attached at the time
 
chaser said:
It is totally unbelievable to me that anyone who can't reverse a trailer can be allowed on the road with one. :doh:
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I agree with you to a certain extent but then how many people have you come across on a narrow road who can’t even reverse a hatchback. Some of those shouldn’t be allowed on the road full stop. Just sayin......

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tjay said:
A 10 year old car is not elderly at all, the installer should have ensured that the car was in a sound state first.
The owner should also have checked the car likewise the garage who did the M.O.T. s
Glad all are involved are ok and thankfully no one hurt.
Other owners should be checking there cars and A frames now.
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If the installer didn’t provide a breakaway cable sounds to me like he is not competent enough to install an Aframe at all.
 
Conal said:
Sorry, meant to say the shorter the distance, the harder it is to reverse. Apparently the short distance magnifies the slightest movement of the steering wheel. My problem is that, to me, reversing is counterintuitive, like having to remember that the two metre part of my motorhome behind the rear wheels goes in the opposite direction to the front of the vehicle when turning.
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So what you need, is a 40ft A frame! 😉
 
gwyntaxi said:
If the installer didn’t provide a breakaway cable sounds to me like he is not competent enough to install an Aframe at all.
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How would a breakaway cable help if it is attached to the A frame still dangling on the back of the motorhome? Most are designed to operate when the frame separates from the towing vehicle not when the frame separates from the trailer/car.
 
jockaneezer said:
Yup, I just saw the other day that they were scrapping the trailer test. I know a couple of people who have just recently passed theirs at a cost of just over £700 !
A quick tip for anyone trying to reverse a trailer is to grip the wheel with one hand at the "six o'clock" position and to make the trailer go left, move your hand to the left and vice versa.
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What a brilliant tip 👏👏👍😁

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I don't have an A frame or a trailer as we only take car and MH when visiting my parents - I drive down in the car to get there in the morning and Martin takes the MH to the CL in the afternoon (they don't like you to be there before noon to give people leaving chance to get off the site - narrow farm track).

I am going to watch this thread to find the outcome ..... it's informative!

So far I have found that some cars are not suitable to be "A Framed" unless they are modified which may impact on the CoC. Some A frame suppliers / installers are doing a dangerous modification and that there are lots of opinions on A frames.
 
Pausim said:
How would a breakaway cable help if it is attached to the A frame still dangling on the back of the motorhome? Most are designed to operate when the frame separates from the towing vehicle not when the frame separates from the trailer/car.
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If the cable is attached to the a-frame then even when the a-frame leaves the car wouldn't the cable still be attached to the car in some way and thus be pulled tight? If not it wouldn't be able to put the brakes on anyway. Not had an a-frame so not sure how the brakes are applied on the car.
 
olley said:
Wife's Suzuki Alto with the A frame attachment bolted to the chassis on either side, made by me, its 3mm box section steel.
The hole on the right which I assume they used as a mounting point, wasn't in my opinion be suitable for an A frame attachment point and it appears I was right.

The original cross member its pressed steel probably 1mm thick or less
View attachment 552657

The new cross member 100x50x3mm
View attachment 552656
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What year is this one please? It’s interesting as a comparison!
 
Conniedriving said:
Maybe they did but was not fitted to the car
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Here we go! That’s pure speculation which is why I’ve asked Jim to take the thread down for now. I’ll update when the owner has had a meaningful conversation with the suppliers.

For info, it WAS attached to the Motorhome, it was NOT attached to the car. The supplier never provided an attachment point. This was NOT user error.

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