A Frame Disaster

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poppycamper said:
I find this clip very very interesting.. not because they are reversing but because it is a Suzuki Jimmy.. I have had 2 of these cars and the owners manual was very very clear.. Never tow with 4 wheels on ground!
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Depends on the age I think
Early ones, if not all, used the SJ410/SJ416 floor pan and the front axle had free wheeling hubs.
Turn the "key" in the hub centre and disengage the front hubs from halfshaft.
Towed mine many miles to and from local off road centre.
 
pappajohn said:
Depends on the age I think
Early ones, if not all, used the SJ410/SJ416 floor pan and the front axle had free wheeling hubs.
Turn the "key" in the hub centre and disengage the front hubs from halfshaft.
Towed mine many miles to and from local off road centre.
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You may be right pappajohn.
However the the Jimny in the clip is the same model and year to one of the ones I had... Yes it had free wheeling front hubs that were operated by vacuum via a switch/button on dash but manual was very specific, and indeed there was a big yellow sticker on visor stating that the vehicle should never be flat towed and if recovery required then either a trailer should be used or at very least rear wheels should be on a towing dolly.
Maybe a bit more investigation required because I am now Intrigued why rear wheels should be off ground.
 
TonyEmm said:
I think you’ll find that was the owner’s knee jerk reaction when the MD of the company refused to discuss the situation. 3 mins of abuse was the only response! 4 unanswered phone calls, 2 unanswered emails and 1 response from a letter sent 1st class. That letter resulted in an immediate emailed response from their solicitor, not from the company itself! So far, only the other side has formally threatened legal action…
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You seem to have made your mind up as who is to blame/threatened legal action.....you have evidence of the abuse, unanswered calls?.....or just taking the complainants word?

Maybe it's time to step back and leave it to the persons concerned.......

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Barclaybasher said:
You seem to have made your mind up as who is to blame/threatened legal action.....you have evidence of the abuse, unanswered calls?.....or just taking the complainants word?

Maybe it's time to step back and leave it to the persons concerned.......
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Absolutely I have. No further commenting on that front….
 
A company that immediate resorts to a threat of legal action at the first hint of a problem is not a company I would want to do business with.

However I do think it is important that a company is able to protect it's name and reputation on the almost unregulated social media. A single post can blacken a reputable company. I have certainly been the victim of that when one of the products I was selling was being faked and sold on ebay with my company name and contact details. I never ever sold via ebay.

Needless to say I started to get a lot of phone calls and emails ...... the culprit was tracked down and trading standards were very helpful. I was able to prove the fakes were not mine due to the batch numbers and manufacturing codes we had in place which all linked back to raw materials and product testing data.
 
Puddleduck said:
A company that immediate resorts to a threat of legal action at the first hint of a problem is not a company I would want to do business with.

However I do think it is important that a company is able to protect it's name and reputation on the almost unregulated social media. A single post can blacken a reputable company. I have certainly been the victim of that when one of the products I was selling was being faked and sold on ebay with my company name and contact details. I never ever sold via ebay.

Needless to say I started to get a lot of phone calls and emails ...... the culprit was tracked down and trading standards were very helpful. I was able to prove the fakes were not mine due to the batch numbers and manufacturing codes we had in place which all linked back to raw materials and product testing data.
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Absolutely agree! I’m a consumer, but I’ve been a retailer, wholesaler and manufacturer!
we often said, “everything would be great it wasn’t for the effin customers!”
 
I am guessing from the complainant's first post (off Facebook) that the were not expecting to get paid out by the insurance company hence looking to blame the installer.
It was she that threatened legal action in the first place.
I still say trying to blame the installer 10 years down the line is not on.
Whatever the reason for failure it clearly happened over many years not at the time of the 'accident'.
It clearly hadn't been checked at anytime.
 
Anyway, clearly, all you A-Framers are doing it wrong.

Dolly-A-frame.jpg

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Puddleduck said:
A company that immediate resorts to a threat of legal action at the first hint of a problem is not a company I would want to do business with.

However I do think it is important that a company is able to protect it's name and reputation on the almost unregulated social media. A single post can blacken a reputable company. I have certainly been the victim of that when one of the products I was selling was being faked and sold on ebay with my company name and contact details. I never ever sold via ebay.

Needless to say I started to get a lot of phone calls and emails ...... the culprit was tracked down and trading standards were very helpful. I was able to prove the fakes were not mine due to the batch numbers and manufacturing codes we had in place which all linked back to raw materials and product testing data.
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That’s where a paper-trail comes in handy!
 
Barclaybasher said:
I am guessing from the complainant's first post (off Facebook) that the were not expecting to get paid out by the insurance company hence looking to blame the installer.
It was she that threatened legal action in the first place.
I still say trying to blame the installer 10 years down the line is not on.
Whatever the reason for failure it clearly happened over many years not at the time of the 'accident'.
It clearly hadn't been checked at anytime.
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That’s pure speculation .
 
Barclaybasher said:
I am guessing from the complainant's first post (off Facebook) that the were not expecting to get paid out by the insurance company hence looking to blame the installer.
It was she that threatened legal action in the first place.
I still say trying to blame the installer 10 years down the line is not on.
Whatever the reason for failure it clearly happened over many years not at the time of the 'accident'.
It clearly hadn't been checked at anytime.
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If the A-frame was installed over 10 years ago, any legal remedy against the installer most likely has become statute-barred. A reputable solicitor would advise her not to waste money on pursuing a futile claim.
 
SpeedyDux said:
If the A-frame was installed over 10 years ago, any legal remedy against the installer most likely has become statute-barred. A reputable solicitor would advise her not to waste money on pursuing a futile claim.
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You’re right there is a time factor involved, however, There is a lot more to it than the fact that the a-frame fell off a 10 year old car, that is likely to be the least of the suppliers concerns. At this stage though, I cannot expand on that, sorry!

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TonyEmm said:
That’s where a paper-trail comes in handy!
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And a minimum requirement when one is selling medical diagnostic tests!!!!

Why would anyone buy such items at 10% of the market price (through ebay) and expects it to be a genuine item eludes me.
 
Puddleduck said:
And a minimum requirement when one is selling medical diagnostic tests!!!!

Why would anyone buy such items at 10% of the market price (through ebay) and expects it to be a genuine item eludes me.
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With all the fakes about how do you find a genuine article?
 
olley said:
With all the fakes about how do you find a genuine article?
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Buy direct from the importer / manufacturer / authorised dealer.

You can also contact the seller in advance and judge how they respond.

Something being sold on ebay for £2.00 from China when the price direct from the authorised European dealer (and comparable with prices at authorised dealers worldwide) is £35 ish will never be genuine :)
 
It's not so long ago beef importers got caught out with someone in the supply chain substituting horse meat.
Chinese manufacturers regularly fake various CE marks.
Rolex watches indistinguishable from the real thing except to experts.

It's a dodgy old world out there were anything can be faked, I don't see how the public can ever be 100% sure that what your buying is what the label says it is.

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We have a car fitted for A Frame, but I won't be using it again.
Nothing to do with safety, or servicing, or installation, or the law, or any of the things that have caused so much fizz on this thread.

For us it is because we can't trust the car to not start on its own and then blow up its own engine block.... again. We have to use an auto (medical reasons) and autos are problematic for A Framing.

However, if you:
  • have a little car
  • can fit all your party into the car
  • have a with a manual box
  • have a key ignition
  • know a competent installer
  • can afford the few thousand to fit one
  • can get the A Frame serviced annually
  • never intend to use it outside of UK
  • have no trailer
  • like to park your moho up for the duration of your stop, but still like to do stuff
I'd say go for it, con brio.
 
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olley said:
It's not so long ago beef importers got caught out with someone in the supply chain substituting horse meat.
Chinese manufacturers regularly fake various CE marks.
Rolex watches indistinguishable from the real thing except to experts.

It's a dodgy old world out there were anything can be faked, I don't see how the public can ever be 100% sure that what your buying is what the label says it is.
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Thst’s where you need to be dealing with reputable companies who have a paper trail! eBay and Gumtree are rife with fakes…. If it sounds too good to be true, it will be, but worse, are the ones charging full whack and it’s still fake! 😡🤬
 
I love a statistic as I find it helps me formulate my own opinion.

Youtube has been my friend here. I put in "A frame accident" and could only find one.
Another statistic I would be tempted to find out if I were TonyEmm would be a FOI request to a few Police forces. I would choose the ones with the most motorway mileage as they will probably be more beneficial to your point and request the information (Surrey has the highest surprisingly and they are pretty good at FOIs) and request the total amount of ARBs that occurred (in a given time period), the amount that involved a trailer and the amount that involved an A frame. I think you will find that they log the trailers (including caravans), but am unsure about A frames.
If,as you suspect, this would help to prove part of the debate that you have been involved in.
I will be interested in any responses you get, so I can make my mind up that I dont want to tow anything......ever
 
Chris said:
You can’t beat an A frame thread can you?

I haven’t read it all but I believe it is perfectly ok to drive it to Spain. Is that right?
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It’s a risk! You may well get away with it, but it’s illegal in Spain. It depends on the copper on the day, and whether he can be arsed! If it’s breakfast time, you’re likely safe! 😂🤣. I know at least 2 that have been fined, 1 had to buy a trailer as his disabled wife couldn’t drive the toad,,,

are you a gambler? 🤔

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No evidence offered with these claims
But very good at putting doubt and fear in peoples mines.
It’s called scaremongering
 
SpeedyDux said:
If the A-frame was installed over 10 years ago, any legal remedy against the installer most likely has become statute-barred. A reputable solicitor would advise her not to waste money on pursuing a futile claim.
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Certainly too late for a claim for breach of contract but I suspect the customer is arguing that a claim still lies in negligence based upon the date of knowledge.

That’s another can of worms though.
 
Doesn’t that depend on if it was fitted 10 years ago, or fitted to a 10 year old car,
 
DDJC said:
Not trying to be confrontational, but what claims are you referring to?
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These posts by a scaremonger.
It’s a risk! You may well get away with it, but it’s illegal in Spain. It depends on the copper on the day, and whether he can be arsed! If it’s breakfast time, you’re likely safe! 😂🤣. I know at least 2 that have been fined, 1 had to buy a trailer as his disabled wife couldn’t drive the toad,,,

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