A Frame Disaster

[Barclaybasher]

Mileage does not clock up when being towed
In the 1st post they say they did not notice the car had broken away until they stopped for fuel?
They also say it had a electronic braking system but did not have a brake away cable fitted?
The law says that it is the drivers responsibility to make sure the car / trailer is road worthy

So the 'low mileage' car was not low mileage - add on the mileage the mh has done in the 10+ years, that's a lot more wear and tear.....

 

[TonyEmm]

So the 'low mileage' car was not low mileage - add on the mileage the mh has done in the 10+ years, that's a lot more wear and tear.....

As is the case with every TOAD! Yet nearly every ad I see for toads claim ’low mileage’!
Their ‘toad’ has never crossed the channel.

 

[Barclaybasher]

As is the case with every TOAD! Yet nearly every ad I see for toads claim ’low mileage’!
Their ‘toad’ has never crossed the channel.

They had their toad for over 10 yrars.

How may miles motorhoming in that time? - 30k,40k ....more?

 

[TonyEmm]

Only the owners can answer that, but as a working couple, I think not….
That aside, the supplier never suggested, recommended or offered a service/inspection interval. Either when first purchased, or retrospectively.

 

[Barclaybasher]

Only the owners can answer that, but as a working couple, I think not….
That aside, the supplier never suggested, recommended or offered a service/inspection interval. Either when first purchased, or retrospectively.

Should he have shown them how to wipe their bottoms as well?

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[Jim]

That aside, the supplier never suggested, recommended or offered a service/inspection interval. Either when first purchased, or retrospectively.

How do you know that to be entirely true?

 

[Barclaybasher]

As is the case with every TOAD! Yet nearly every ad I see for toads claim ’low mileage’!
Their ‘toad’ has never crossed the channel.

Any with toads who dared to cross the Channel would find roads that make ours look like cart tracks causing less strain on the A frame.
I'm in Dieppe having just driven the length of France from Spain and am not looking forward to driving on UK roads....on pothole alert!

 

[Stoosal]

Out of interest......when the car ‘fell off’ the back of their vehicle did they report the collision to police?

 

[Conniedriving]

Out of interest......when the car ‘fell off’ the back of their vehicle did they report the collision to police?

I asked her that she as always when asked questions she doesn’t like she asks admin to shut the tread down.
She also said that they had a rear view camera but did not notice the car had gone until they pulled in a garage for fuel
Then back tracking the route found the car embedded in a lamppost
That’s driving without due care and attention
If the runaway car had killed someone
Want then ? Death by dangerous driving?
You should be looking in your mirrors every 20 seconds you should be fully aware of what’s going on around you.

What should have happened here is nothing should have been said about this until a full investigation had been carried out
Instead then have been every motorhome site
Telling what they say happened to them but when you ask questions they shut it down
That in my view is scaremongering and putting fear and doubt in the minds of those of us who tow cars on aframes

 

[Minxy]

Mileage does not clock up when being towed
In the 1st post they say they did not notice the car had broken away until they stopped for fuel?
They also say it had a electronic braking system but did not have a brake away cable fitted?
The law says that it is the drivers responsibility to make sure the car / trailer is road worthy

The first post where? Not on here, no mention of this in their post put on here by Realist, is there another one I've missed?

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[Minxy]

I asked her that she as always when asked questions she doesn’t like she asks admin to shut the tread down.
She also said that they had a rear view camera but did not notice the car had gone until they pulled in a garage for fuel
Then back tracking the route found the car embedded in a lamppost
That’s driving without due care and attention
If the runaway car had killed someone
Want then ? Death by dangerous driving?
You should be looking in your mirrors every 20 seconds you should be fully aware of what’s going on around you.

If totally true, can't argue with that.

What should have happened here is nothing should have been said about this until a full investigation had been carried out
Instead then have been every motorhome site

Agree to a point.

Telling what they say happened to them but when you ask questions they shut it down
That in my view is scaremongering and putting fear and doubt in the minds of those of us who tow cars on aframes

It did actually happen so isn't scaremongering, the intention was to warn others, including YOU, to check their set-up, no different from someone flagging up another issue which may affect others and for them to check.

Put it another way, if the same happened to your set-up and you then found out it had occurred on at least one other occasion but everyone kept schtum, whereas if it had been reported you could have checked and prevented your own problem, would you be happy?

 

[charliesgrandad]

As is the case with every TOAD! Yet nearly every ad I see for toads claim ’low mileage’!
Their ‘toad’ has never crossed the channel.

So because nearly all the ads you see for Toads are listed as low milage does that imply you condone this practice?

 

[TonyEmm]

How do you know that to be entirely true?

Documentation supplied….

It would be incumbent on the supplier to prove they DID offer/supply the service. It’s virtually impossible to prove a negative!

 

[TonyEmm]

So because nearly all the ads you see for Toads are listed as low milage does that imply you condone this practice?

No, I don’t, but that’s the way it is!
Not many divulge with any accuracy, how far they’ve towed that aren’t on the odometer.

 

[TonyEmm]

Mileage does not clock up when being towed
In the 1st post they say they did not notice the car had broken away until they stopped for fuel?
They also say it had a electronic braking system but did not have a brake away cable fitted?
The law says that it is the drivers responsibility to make sure the car / trailer is road worthy

It’s also the manufacturers responsibility to ensure that what they supply, is legal, roadworthy and fit for purpose.

a ’toad’ with neither an emergency braking system or a secondary coupling is not legal or fit for purpose!

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[Barclaybasher]

I've been selling gas fires for over 30 years and always tell customers to run the fire full on for 15 minutes before turning the heat down - it makes the fire work better but importantly heats the flue and gets that working.
After selling thousands of fires it is extremely rare for someone to say 'I knew that' - it's in the instructions!
One manufacturer started the instruction manual with "Ah you have a problem" !
Sometimes folks don't listen.....

 

[telsdog]

Only the owners can answer that, but as a working couple, I think not….
That aside, the supplier never suggested, recommended or offered a service/inspection interval. Either when first purchased, or retrospectively.

I have had many tow bars fitted over many years and have never been offered a service/inspection interval. Should I have been?

 

[Jim]

Documentation supplied….

It would be incumbent on the supplier to prove they DID offer/supply the service. It’s virtually impossible to prove a negative!

You were not there; you don't know it to be true. Why are you saying it is, in public, here? Please do that on your own webspace, rather than this one. Thanks

 

[Conniedriving]

It’s also the manufacturers responsibility to ensure that what they supply, is legal, roadworthy and fit for purpose.

a ’toad’ with neither an emergency braking system or a secondary coupling is not legal or fit for purpose!

It would have stopped it hitting that lamppost

 

[Minxy]

As is the case with every TOAD! Yet nearly every ad I see for toads claim ’low mileage’!
Their ‘toad’ has never crossed the channel.

So because nearly all the ads you see for Toads are listed as low milage does that imply you condone this practice?

No, I don’t, but that’s the way it is!
Not many divulge with any accuracy, how far they’ve towed that aren’t on the odometer.

This is ONE reason why I would never buy a vehicle that has already got an A-frame fitted, you simply do NOT know how many miles are 'driven' miles (ie under it's own steam) or 'dragged' miles.

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[eddie]

I must get a sign made for when I tow the Terios

 

[TonyEmm]

I have had many tow bars fitted over many years and have never been offered a service/inspection interval. Should I have been?

That’s a bit less of an issue now as towbars are covered on an MoT test, though only a rudimentary visual inspection.

my company was the first in the U.K. to be NTTA Q.S approved for Towbar fitting AND trailer maintenance.

We were, AFAIK, the only ones to offer a lifetime warranty on our Towbar fittings, but it was subject to an annual inspection. Our inspection wasn’t just visual, it included checking the torque settings of the various bolts. The first was free, the remainder were charged on the basis of 30 mins labour, though some took longer.

it never failed to amaze me that despite sending out postcard reminders, our typical take up, even of the free check, was only around 8%. .
so my answer to your question is, YES, I think you should have been offered checks, though they are not legally required, other than the MoT.

Bare in mind, an MoT tester cannot dismantle or make adjustments, he can only visually inspect.

What my old company does now, I can’t say, I sold up and retired in the latter half of the 2000’s!

 

[Barclaybasher]

That’s a bit less of an issue now as towbars are covered on an MoT test, though only a rudimentary visual inspection.

my company was the first in the U.K. to be NTTA Q.S approved for Towbar fitting AND trailer maintenance.

We were, AFAIK, the only ones to offer a lifetime warranty on our Towbar fittings, but it was subject to an annual inspection. Our inspection wasn’t just visual, it included checking the torque settings of the various bolts. The first was free, the remainder were charged on the basis of 30 mins labour, though some took longer.

it never failed to amaze me that despite sending out postcard reminders, our typical take up, even of the free check, was only around 8%. .
so my answer to your question is, YES, I think you should have been offered checks, though they are not legally required, other than the MoT.

Bare in mind, an MoT tester cannot dismantle or make adjustments, he can only visually inspect.

What my old company does now, I can’t say, I sold up and retired in the latter half of the 2000’s!

Would the cross-member on the toad be visible to an MOT inspector?

 

[jezport]

After owning a Suzuki Grand Vitara. I can say they are one of the few modern vehicles that still rot to bits. I will never buy another suzuki.

 

[Stoosal]

How many cases is too many? Just one in my opinion, especially when it can be demonstrated that it was the original installation that was at fault.

The common cry from naysayers is where are the statistics! Unfortunately, no one is tasked with collecting statistics, not just for a-frame or towing accidents , but accidents in RTA’s in general.

The government’s own website admits that any statistics are casualty based.
They state that their stats can relied upon where there were fatalities, but readily admit that for anything less, the combined information from multitudes of sources (including NHS reports) points to the fact that official accident stats are hugely underestimated.

it’s more likely than not that regardless of how much damage is done, if there was no casualty, the ‘runaway’ will go unreported.

With above in mind I’ll ask the question again.......

Was the initial loss of vehicle from the towing vehicle and its collision with a lamp post reported to the police? Enables stats to be collated and the issues you are highlighting to perhaps be addressed.

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[Barclaybasher]

When you enter into litigation you might see only your point of view (Barclays in my case).

The 'other side' might ask to see the service records for the toad, details of all motorhomes used by the complainant so they can check mileages on MOT history and or service records to do the same.

The fact they didn't know it was gone until they stopped for fuel is mind blowing.

This thread might put folk off A frames... thinking of the 'extra mileage' and the thought of an empty vehicle bouncing around behind them wearing out or damaging its running gear.....

 

[TonyEmm]

Out of interest......when the car ‘fell off’ the back of their vehicle did they report the collision to police?

The police were in attendance.

 

[TonyEmm]

Would the cross-member on the toad be visible to an MOT inspector?

You’d need to ask an MoT tester but, if there’s a plastic tray under the engine, as is very common, possibly not. He can’t remove it!

 

[TonyEmm]

With above in mind I’ll ask the question again.......

Was the initial loss of vehicle from the towing vehicle and its collision with a lamp post reported to the police? Enables stats to be collated and the issues you are highlighting to perhaps be addressed.

And I’ll answer again, the police were in attendance…

 

[TonyEmm]

When you enter into litigation you might see only your point of view (Barclays in my case).

The 'other side' might ask to see the service records for the toad, details of all motorhomes used by the complainant so they can check mileages on MOT history and or service records to do the same.

The fact they didn't know it was gone until they stopped for fuel is mind blowing.

This thread might put folk off A frames... thinking of the 'extra mileage' and the thought of an empty vehicle bouncing around behind them wearing out or damaging its running gear.....

TBH entering into litigation, as a private citizen v a company with (presumably) considerable resources, isn’t a path I would to choose to follow unless any action is on a no win no fee basis. The choice isn’t mine to make though!
My view would be that it would be better to report to the relevant authorities, (which it has been), let them assess the evidence and hopefully take any required action.

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