2021 Adria Matrix Adblue Nightmare and Other Problems Part Two. (1 Viewer)

[sciac2001]

From another Spanish motorhomer:
I wouldn't bother with that (my opinion).
Because the Ducato manual states that:
View attachment 888263

Interesting… and now in a quandry.
I assume it might be the same for my Sprinter.
I will ask a main MB dealer.
Thanks

 

[treblid]

Surely, if Adblue needed an additive to prevent crystallisation, Adblue would include this additive.......

 

[oldiesontour]

Surely, if Adblue needed an additive to prevent crystallisation, Adblue would include this additive.......

Some do apparently.

 

[sciac2001]

From another Spanish motorhomer:
I wouldn't bother with that (my opinion).
Because the Ducato manual states that:
View attachment 888263

Have received this from a main MB dealership:
“

I would say providing you use a good quality adblue there is no need for additive, all adblue does crystallise when it comes into contact with the air but in the tank it is generally not affected.


“

Not now adding additive to my Sprinter.

 

[BikerGraham]

Have received this from a main MB dealership:
“

I would say providing you use a good quality adblue there is no need for additive, all adblue does crystallise when it comes into contact with the air but in the tank it is generally not affected.


“

Not now adding additive to my Sprinter.

The be fair MB are correct as their systems bugger up in any case.

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[sciac2001]

The be fair MB are correct as their systems bugger up in any case.

 

[Tony50]

Fill every visit to pumps perhaps it may reduce air in tank

 

[gus-lopez]

all adblue does crystallise when it comes into contact with the air but in the tank it is generally not affected.

which is why you want to keep the tank as full as possible.

 

[Tio64]

We collected our new Bailey Jun 2017. Engine is Euro 6. Warning light came on going down M4. Bought a can to ‘top-up’. Flimsy plastic filler hose and spilt some AdBlue, awful stuff to get on your clothes. Never again I said and since then have made a point of only refilling at forecourt pumps since you can fill to the brim (100%) and you’re not left with a container partially full of AdBlue. Additionally you will have only paid for the top-up. Thing to remember is that the AdBlue dispensers are usually in the HGV section of services so you’ll need to select one, park up and give your payment card to cashier before filling up. I’m talking here about some motorway services not all.
The problem many people encounter is thinking the warning will disappear after adding a bit of AdBlue eg 5litres from plastic container. My experience with other vehicles is that the tank should be filled to the brim and only then will the warning message disappear hence the reason I only fill up at services to ensure I can meter the exact amount of AdBlue to fill tank.

I tend to think that fiddling with the EMS or carrying out an AdBlue delete is not the answer since if it were then all drivers of Euro 6 vehicles (generally every vehicle manufactured from 2017) - thousands - would be up in arms, yet the only people I hear of who can’t seem to get on with AdBlue seem to be a minority on this forum!

Mike, the reason I didn't "get on" with adblue is because it left us stranded in France for one week and cost me 1,825 euros plus £100 excess towards the insurance claim for a week's accommodation. Oh, and yes, I too googled saw that the price of a new tank is about £800/euros, but I was at a Fiat dealership and they charge 1200 euros plus fitting. The workshop manager told me he can only buy from Fiat.

Re the '5 litres' - our vehicle doesn't even have an adblue gauge. The advice in the handbook for when the refill adblue light to come on is to put in a minimum of 5 litres. Obviously, when the light comes on we are not in a position to fill the system completely.

Re Euro 6: I disagree with you, I think there are plenty of people having problems with Euro 6, be it DPFs, EGRs, Adblue or whatever. I now happen to think that new diesel cars are in the same position as EVs. ie you don't want to own one, just lease it or buy on PCP etc, and hand it back after 3 years. (Indeed EVs are probably more reliable than diesels nowadays - worth remembering it was a diesel vehicle that burnt the carpark at Luton Airport down). A friend of mine had a garage business for 40 years, he says it was always the diesel drivers with the big bills. Obviously, as motorhome owners we have no realistic choice other than diesel engines, but I think we just need to be more prepared for hassle and expense than we perhaps had to in the past - if you have a newer diesel, make sure you have good breakdown cover (with a realistic amount for repatriation if needed).

I'm not saying any of this to scare people or to put anyone off motorhoming, I am simply saying we perhaps need to be better prepared than in the past for expensive breakdowns. It's just a simple fact that engines nowadays are far more complex than ever they were, we perhaps need to be more realistic about this.

It's also worth reiterating that there is a game-changer with adblue - I am certain that my vehicle was perfectly capable of continuing to drive, it's just that it had been PROGRAMMED to not start should there be any problem with the adblue system. This is different from any other type of breakdown in my opinion, furthermore it does not put safety first.

Anyway, we are going to continue to motorhome. I do hope we don't have another major problem too soon though, because that probably would end it for us, as I said in my other thread, we've had a lot of hassle with our new Adria.

Hey ho, we'll see.

 

[Tio64]

which is why you want to keep the tank as full as possible.

I had been mostly been doing that. We don't have a filling station near us with adblue that I can easily get the motorhome into, indeed it's no more easy for me to get adblue than it is LPG, for that reason I had been buying adblue in plastic containers and filled the tank every time the van came home. (However, I didn't keep topped up on the trip I was on, I regret doing that. Then again, I think the problem with mine was a fault on the tank to be able to read the level, if so keeping it topped up would have made no difference. I guess I'll never know )

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[Tio64]

2021 Fiat Ducato based motorhome. 24k miles. Fill adblu every 3 or 4 thousand miles at a forecourt pump. No waste, no hassle, no spillage. Pump auto cuts off. Never even considered an additive. Seems like snake oil to me. No issues at all (yet)!

I suspect that motorhomes that don't do many miles may be an issue in terms of adblu crystallising or going stale.

I think there might be something in this, which of course renders the system unfit for purpose.

 

[BikerGraham]

I think there might be something in this, which of course renders the system unfit for purpose.

Many high mileage cars used regularly also have issues so its not really that.

Personally, I think if they used a 20% urea solution or less then there would be a great deal fewer issues.

32.5% is too high a concentration for stability.

Interesting the comment from MB about exposure to air and generally not an issue in the tanks. Look up then number of tanks and pumps (in tank) that have to be replaced. The thing is they just don’t really know, same as most other manufacturers. That’s why I also believe a lower concentration would cause fewer issues.

 

[oldiesontour]

Following Tio64 experience I looked into what I could do to avoid a similar situation,Delete ...
£450, didn't want this as possible MOT changes( which I have since been told by MOT station owner will happen in the next two years according to his ministry man,Particulate testing being introduced) would mean Reinstate and still original problem
Buy a vehicle specific emulator to either fit could be removed or carry in case of on road failure £200 max
Get a spare tank to carry + Diagbox.45 mins to swop.
Already had Diagbox offered a 1 yr old tank
£100 so went this route,had a good used tank not been available would have been emulator.

 

[BikerGraham]

Following Tio64 experience I looked into what I could do to avoid a similar situation,Delete ...
£450, didn't want this as possible MOT changes( which I have since been told by MOT station owner will happen in the next two years according to his ministry man,Particulate testing being introduced) would mean Reinstate and still original problem
Buy a vehicle specific emulator to either fit could be removed or carry in case of on road failure £200 max
Get a spare tank to carry + Diagbox.45 mins to swop.
Already had Diagbox offered a 1 yr old tank
£100 so went this route,had a good used tank not been available would have been emulator.

Interesting
So if it’s the NOX sensors ( many cars have multiple sensors) that go ??? They are often the issue. As is blocking of the injection port.
The emulator merely convinces the system the adblue system is functioning. The particulate emissions would in theory still be high.
The particulate monitoring as part of the MOT, if introduced, would have to be sensitive enough in terms of detection and the limits. May turn out to be impractical for an MOT test.

 

[Pausim]

AdBlue treats the poisonous Nitrous Oxide gas in diesel emissions not the particulates.

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[oldiesontour]

Interesting
So if it’s the NOX sensors ( many cars have multiple sensors) that go ??? They are often the issue. As is blocking of the injection port.
The emulator merely convinces the system the adblue system is functioning. The particulate emissions would in theory still be high.
The particulate monitoring as part of the MOT, if introduced, would have to be sensitive enough in terms of detection and the limits. May turn out to be impractical for an MOT test.

I thought we were talking about adblue tank failure,which a vehicle specific emulator will solve,although we could carry injector,nox sensor where do we draw the line ? Don't think I've read on here anyone breaking down in an Adblue PSA vehicle caused by nox sensor or injector failure (yet)

 

[oldiesontour]

AdBlue treats the poisonous Nitrous Oxide gas in diesel emissions not the

AdBlue treats the poisonous Nitrous Oxide gas in diesel emissions not the particulates.

True,but with adblue delete comes dpf delete on my van

.

 

[BikerGraham]

I thought we were talking about adblue tank failure,which a vehicle specific emulator will solve,although we could carry injector,nox sensor where do we draw the line ? Don't think I've read on here anyone breaking down in an Adblue PSA vehicle caused by nox sensor or injector failure (yet)

The adblue system fails for a number of reasons.
Faulty sensors and blocked injectors are also a cause.

The emulators usually just tell the ECU’s the system is working. If the sensors or injectors are not then the emissions would not be within the vehicles limitations. In theory then they would fail the emissions test if the MOT was sensitive enough.

 

[BikerGraham]

AdBlue treats the poisonous Nitrous Oxide gas in diesel emissions not the particulates.

You are of course correct mate.

Got mixed up with the particulates etc. nowt to do with the adblue system.

 

[oldiesontour]

The adblue system fails for a number of reasons.
Faulty sensors and blocked injectors are also a cause.

The emulators usually just tell the ECU’s the system is working. If the sensors or injectors are not then the emissions would not be within the vehicles limitations. In theory then they would fail the emissions test if the MOT was sensitive enough.

As said I looked at ways of avoiding being in the same position as Tio64,and emulator in the glove box ready to fit would avoid such a situation,fully appreciate that an emulator in future if particulate testing was introduced fail an MOT although would be just as likely to pass now as a vehicle adblue and dpf delete would

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[oldiesontour]

The adblue system fails for a number of reasons.
Faulty sensors and blocked injectors are also a cause.

The emulators usually just tell the ECU’s the system is working. If the sensors or injectors are not then the emissions would not be within the vehicles limitations. In theory then they would fail the emissions test if the MOT was sensitive enough.

An emulator has the same effect as a delete but can easily be fitted in the event of breakdown,ref MOT it is just as likely to pass as a delete, effectively the difference is one is easily fitted and removed by someone with basic skills and simple tools the other isn't as said on balance I chose neither

 

[Sandancers]

Some advice from Jimmy O'Riley about Adblue;

 

[jerryz]

the whole emmissions and climate emergency scam hysteria is blowing up in peoples faces now ,, Its not real never has been ,, recently many top climate scientists who supported the evidence are no reluctantly saying they are wrong as the science , data , algorithms , that they based their assumptions on and the sold to the politicians was wrong , the maths , physics , just dont add up ,,, like the global winter crap in the 80s ,,,we have been duped to make some people more powerful and others richer

 

[ceejayt]

the whole emmissions and climate emergency scam hysteria is blowing up in peoples faces now ,, Its not real never has been ,, recently many top climate scientists who supported the evidence are no reluctantly saying they are wrong as the science , data , algorithms , that they based their assumptions on and the sold to the politicians was wrong , the maths , physics , just dont add up ,,, like the global winter crap in the 80s ,,,we have been duped to make some people more powerful and others richer

Where does one even start in responding to this kind of climate change denial?
I don’t need to be a scientist to witness what I am seeing happening around the world on a daily basis.

 

[The Wino]

Where does one even start in responding to this kind of climate change denial?
I don’t need to be a scientist to witness what I am seeing happening around the world on a daily basis.

You won't be able to respond even the local school lab tech will become an "expert" if they don't believe in global warming. I can't think of any major scientific body that doesn't see climate change as a real thing. Probably all run by lizard people!

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[Marie-Claire]

I totally agree with climate change and the need to do something about it , if adblu does this then that's fine by me but the issue of millions of single use plastic bottles to transport it around the world probably negates the gain . Why not only have it available at the pump more convenient , usually cheaper also. After all you cant buy 10l of petrol anywhere but from a pump, why not adblu also?

 

[jerryz]

The climate may well be changing its done it for billions of years ,, but human effects are puny ,, the entire net zero is a farce ,, I watched the Hockey stick guy admit on PBS tv that assumptions and data he used on his famous graph has been reviewed recently and its based wrong assumptions ,and data that is now seen to be wrong ..he also agreed that C02 is not the leader of climate change , and that all the data needs to be checked as although some climatic change is evident they cannot state with certainty that humans are driving it .

 

[Tio64]

The climate may well be changing its done it for billions of years ,, but human effects are puny ,, the entire net zero is a farce ,, I watched the Hockey stick guy admit on PBS tv that assumptions and data he used on his famous graph has been reviewed recently and its based wrong assumptions ,and data that is now seen to be wrong ..he also agreed that C02 is not the leader of climate change , and that all the data needs to be checked as although some climatic change is evident they cannot state with certainty that humans are driving it .

The "billions of years" thing completely misses the point. It's not about the planet, the planet will continue to whizz around the sun travelling through space for billions of years as it already has.

It's about mankind's time on the planet, which has been very short relative to the 4.5 billion year age of the planet.

Man has unlocked millions/billions of tonnes of carbon from underground, which lay there for millions/billions of years, and burnt it, thus shifting it into the atmosphere, and has done this in just 300 years.

Personally I don't think that can happen without consequences.

 

[Tony50]

Do some want to risk heaping more damage on the Planet ( even if the information we are fed informing us it is humans that are contributing to Global warming ) think about your children and Grand children, let us all try to be Greener ,I'm not saying give up all pleasures in life, but be careful, no one here will know what the future holds for Planet Earth or come to that us

 

[Pausim]

I would like to think that I will be leaving the planet a better place when I die. Unfortunately I know this is not true, I have probably used far more than my fair share of the finite resources. My defence is that for most of my life I had no idea that there were long term consequences. Now it is abundantly obvious that we are creating problems for the future I feel obliged to make an effort to work towards improving things. I do not intend to give up my lifestyle but accepting a few inconveniences like driving less polluting vehicles does not seem unreasonable to me.

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