Which is better - Hymer or Carthago - subjective help please.

[Solwaybuggier]

I’ve not spent time comparing the spec sheets, but just on initial impressions the feel of the furnishings in our 2015 model C Tourer T150 does resemble current model Chic C Line, while the current C Tourers and C Compactlines do seem less substantial. I’d put it down to paring for weight and cost purposes. On the other hand a 2014 or 2015 C Line we looked at was way more substantial than our C Tourer.

We have no problem with the height of the toilet seat, but closing the toilet door while sat is another matter!

 

[Wellington]

Again, thanks for sharing your experience, but the options list for the chic line is almost the same as the one for the c-tourer line.

I think you get the essential distinctive Carthago parts straight from the "entry-level" c-tourer t. The compactline is really interesting for us despite the extra cost compared to the c-tourer t.

We want to remain as compact as possible and have single beds. That eliminates the chic line for us, they start at 7.4 meters.

I wonder if weight is a factor? (you know, for us youngsters limited to 3.5t)

 

[Pausim]

I wonder if weight is a factor? (you know, for us youngsters limited to 3.5t)

There must come a time when the demand for second hand over 3.5t mohos drops off.

 

[Wellington]

Not for a while. I'm 41 and I only missed it because I farted about at university and didn't learn to drive at until I was 21. Given that most (I know, not all, but its definitely the most common) motorhomers are retired, then theres another 20 years in the market. I imagine there will be a bit of a supply issue, though because there won't be enough sub 3.5t ones coming through, as not enough are being bought new now (or in about ten years time) for there to be enough used ones available when all the retirees have to have sub3.5t MHs in twenty years time (there must be a word that. Whats the opposite of a bottle-neck?!). Mind you, I don't suppose millennials will ever be allowed to retire anyway. Perhaps motorhoming's golden age is not going to last?

 

[Motorhome-dude]

Afternoon Funsters,
So I am looking at having to change my Motorhome for a different Model to provide a larger garage to take a mobility scooter (Tramper TWS – 140Kg) – I have tried to find adaptions for my Swift Escape 684 but my wife (whom the scooter is for) is not comfortable towing, the existing overhang prevents a platform at the back and it is IMPORTANT that she can use the van without me.
So based upon my research the only two manufacturers that provide a wide enough and high enough garage door with the correct load capacity and plating (old we can go heavy) are either Hymer or Carthago – so the big questions are

• Which one is better for build and driving quality?
• Which dealer network is more supportive?
• Dealers to avoid?
• Have you ever fitted auto-levelling to one?
• Best way to sell our swift escape 684.

Thank you as always in advance…….

As Bustup said, I wouldn't rule out Dethleffs. They have some amazing vehicles and layouts and seem to have a reputation for quality.

Of the two you mentioned, I'd go for Carthago. Their build quality and fit and finish just "seems" better at the moment. That's off my recent trip to the NEC show.

The Liner for Two is the model Karen and I are looking at getting in around 10 years (when we retire and when they're cheap enough for us to buy!)

I've never owned either brand so I'm certainly not talking from an owners point of view, just my observations on the new models I've seen and reading forums about the brands.

Hymer (and Hobby) used to have a well deserved name for being robust, well designed, well put together vans that would last. These days, both brands seem no better than other brands that are much cheaper. It seems they're living off the old name for quality without providing it.
If you search around the forums for problems with the newer Hymer's you'll see plenty of very unhappy people talking about problems that you'd only expect from vehicles half the price.

Best way to sell -

If you want top money, put it on eBay and Autotrader and deal with all the dreamers, scammers and dealers pretending to be Joe public.....but you only need one genuine person to see it.

If you want a quick sale, trade it in and wipe your mouth when you get gutted like a fish.

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[Robert Clark]

Another thing to consider is service intervals

First hsb service on my Carthago was 3 months, then annually

Hymer group as I understand it is now 2 years

 

[Lenny HB]

First hsb service on my Carthago was 3 months, then annually

Only a guide not required for warranty.

 

[Robert Clark]

Only a guide not required for warranty.

Wonder what your Carthago dealer would advise

 

[Lenny HB]

There must come a time when the demand for second hand over 3.5t mohos drops off.

To us old boys £700-1000 to get a C1 sounds a lot but to 30-40 year olds it's peanuts.

 

[Lenny HB]

Wonder what your Carthago dealer would advise

My mates had two from different dealers both said don't bother, he hasn't had any problems getting warranty work done.

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[Robert Clark]

My mates had two from different dealers both said don't bother, he hasn't had any problems getting warranty work done.

Our German dealer said nobody in Germany has a hab service on a Hymer
Only a damp test at 2 years

 

[Viv Danks]

Not for a while. I'm 41 and I only missed it because I farted about at university and didn't learn to drive at until I was 21. Given that most (I know, not all, but its definitely the most common) motorhomers are retired, then theres another 20 years in the market. I imagine there will be a bit of a supply issue, though because there won't be enough sub 3.5t ones coming through, as not enough are being bought new now (or in about ten years time) for there to be enough used ones available when all the retirees have to have sub3.5t MHs in twenty years time (there must be a word that. Whats the opposite of a bottle-neck?!). Mind you, I don't suppose millennials will ever be allowed to retire anyway. Perhaps motorhoming's golden age is not going to last?

Opposite of bottleneck - floodgates?

 

[jongood]

I just checked the masses in running order in the German price list:

• I 141LE: 2,920 kg
• I 143 LE: 2,935 kg

The I 141 LE is only 10 kg heavier than a less well appointed Hymer MC-T 580. I find that remarquable.

I wouldnt make a purchasing decision based on MH manufacturers tare weights, they are notoriously unreliable. Is there even yet a common standard for how much water, gas bottles, batteries etc?

 

[StephDeLux]

I wouldnt make a purchasing decision based on MH manufacturers tare weights, they are notoriously unreliable. Is there even yet a common standard for how much water, gas bottles, batteries etc?

Yes there is a common standard they all follow. This is the wording:

The weight in a roadworthy condition is determined by ordinance (EU) no. 1,230/2,012 incl. basic equipment (driver 75 kg, 90% fuel, 20 l fresh water, 1 aluminium gas bottle and electrical connecting cables) in the standard configuration. The weight in a roadworthy condition changes due to the installation of accessories and special equipment.

Besides, on what other information can we base our decisions? I read the tests in German magazines Pro-Mobil and Reisemobil International, they actually weight the vehicles they test and the results do not seem that far off the predicted weight when taking into account the weight of the different options mounted on the test vehicle., at least for Eura-Mobil, Hymer and Carthago.

 

[jongood]

Yes there is a common standard they all follow. This is the wording:

The weight in a roadworthy condition is determined by ordinance (EU) no. 1,230/2,012 incl. basic equipment (driver 75 kg, 90% fuel, 20 l fresh water, 1 aluminium gas bottle and electrical connecting cables) in the standard configuration. The weight in a roadworthy condition changes due to the installation of accessories and special equipment.

Thanks for that, I can see how it would relate to a car but still think its a bit vague for the complicated box of multiple options that comprises a Motorhome.

I'm not sure if you've committed to a purchase yet, but I would be very surprised if whichever one you choose is anywhere close to the claimed ULW when delivered.

Tbf it really doesn't matter to me but I have seen disappointed looks when the scales have come out at meetings and feel a duty to share my experience/scepticism for the benefit of those that may have specific limitations.

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[StephDeLux]

Thanks for that, I can see how it would relate to a car but still think its a bit vague for the complicated box of multiple options that comprises a Motorhome.

I'm not sure if you've committed to a purchase yet, but I would be very surprised if whichever one you choose is anywhere close to the claimed ULW when delivered.

Tbf it really doesn't matter to me but I have seen disappointed looks when the scales have come out at meetings and feel a duty to share my experience/scepticism for the benefit of those that may have specific limitations.

Thanks for the reminder I do fear such a disappointment, but I don't really know how to avoid it, especially with our goal of remaining in the 3.5T class.

At least, we're not interested in having an awning, TV and satellite, all pretty heavy extras. I will not put an extra battery and instead replace the supplied battery with a lithium one, saving around 40 kilos compared to having a second battery. With Carthago, choosing the alloy wheels is claimed to save 10 kilos. If we go for an A-Class, we will not take the front bed, and that saves weight. 16 kilos with Hymer, 40 kilos with Carthago. Odd difference, by the way.

 

[StephDeLux]

I'm curious what would be the consensus on Malibu vs. Hymer ranges like Tramp CL and Exsis. My view of Malibu is that it has Carthago furnishing, better batteries, and double floor but Hymer has the PUAL body like the upper ranges, making them more of less a tie. The budgets are very similar.

Or is this off topic for this thread?

 

[Wellington]

To us old boys £700-1000 to get a C1 sounds a lot but to 30-40 year olds it's peanuts.

I’d bet a chunk of people who have the money don’t have the time. I think it’s probably significant

Thanks for the reminder I do fear such a disappointment, but I don't really know how to avoid it, especially with our goal of remaining in the 3.5T class.

At least, we're not interested in having an awning, TV and satellite, all pretty heavy extras. I will not put an extra battery and instead replace the supplied battery with a lithium one, saving around 40 kilos compared to having a second battery. With Carthago, choosing the alloy wheels is claimed to save 10 kilos. If we go for an A-Class, we will not take the front bed, and that saves weight. 16 kilos with Hymer, 40 kilos with Carthago. Odd difference, by the way.

I’ll weigh mine when I get it next week. It’ll give you an idea of an idea of at least one real weight.

I hadn’t really looked at Malibu until recently, but they don’t look very budget! I preferred some things.

 

[Wellington]

Opposite of bottleneck - floodgates?

That would an be excess of supply (I agree it’s a true opposite, though). I’ve decided there will be Delta. Supply will slow to a trickle and be spread thinly.

 

[Viv Danks]

I'm curious what would be the consensus on Malibu vs. Hymer ranges like Tramp CL and Exsis. My view of Malibu is that it has Carthago furnishing, better batteries, and double floor but Hymer has the PUAL body like the upper ranges, making them more of less a tie. The budgets are very similar.

Or is this off topic for this thread?

So sorry for my ignorance (in so many things) but is the Malibu the Carthago 'entry range'?

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[StephDeLux]

So sorry for my ignorance (in so many things) but is the Malibu the Carthago 'entry range'?

Yes. More like a more budget oriented sub-brand, but indeed not a budget brand at all. It competes with the Hymer Ambition and Exsis ranges.

 

[Wellington]

I know this is an aside, but as we were talking about the vertigo inducing toilet in the 138, I thought I would post this. I’m worried there won’t be enough space in the bathroom for a full side step, so I’m awaiting one of these.

 

[StephDeLux]

I know this is an aside, but as we were talking about the vertigo inducing toilet in the 138, I thought I would post this. I’m worried there won’t be enough space in the bathroom for a full side step, so I’m awaiting one of these.

View attachment 315175

"Vertigo inducing"

Not bad, really!

 

[Viv Danks]

Yes. More like a more budget oriented sub-brand, but indeed not a budget brand at all. It competes with the Hymer Ambition and Exsis ranges.

So could I extrapolate - Swift Escape v Malibu = ???? Better or worse?

 

[StephDeLux]

So could I extrapolate - Swift Escape v Malibu = ???? Better or worse?

No idea, being continental, we have no access to British brands.

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[Robert Clark]

No idea, being continental, we have no access to British brands.

English brands are soooooo good we jealously guard them and keep them all to ourselves

 

[peterc10]

English brands are soooooo good we jealously guard them and keep them all to ourselves

So true. I very often see European made mohos on British plates, but I have never seen a British made moho on European plates.

 

[Robert Clark]

So true. I very often see European made mohos on British plates, but I have never seen a British made moho on European plates.

Saw loads of British built vans in New Zealand Peter

 

[Wellington]

"Vertigo inducing"

Not bad, really!

Depends how tall you are to start with!?

 

[StephDeLux]

That being said, and to come back to the topic, in my current research, I find that Hymer's bathrooms are indeed better and sometimes much better than Carthago's. The one in the B-MC 580 is wonderful, for example.

That and being less expensive are the main pluses in the Hymer side for me at this stage.

And the B-MC are Mercedes-based, generally a plus.

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