Which is better - Hymer or Carthago - subjective help please.

[CazPaul]

An alternate to a giant coachbuilt would also be a simple van designed to hold a lot in the garage, such as this Adria that Andrew Ditton shows us around:



If the mobility scooter can fit into there (or change it to one that does!) thsi would give you a nice manageable solution.

Too gimmicky for me that, using power as well to raise and lower the bed
Fixed bed better with space underneath, I like the La Strada Regent S but fridge too small in it and it's expensive as on a merc base, great length though at under 6 metres.
CS reisemobile Rondo or independent excellent vans but again so expensive but they will build the rear bed as high or as low as you want

 

[GPW]

Too gimmicky for me that, using power as well to raise and lower the bed
Fixed bed better with space underneath

Agreed but all the moving beds in PVCs I see have been powered. The advantage of the bed is that you can raise it a few inches to store the ramps on top of the cupboards, and it allows you to raise the bed fully to drive the scooter in.

Also being a van it has probably around 600kg of payload but stays withing 3.5 tonnes.

 

[Lanerboy]

When I did motocross and had bikes in my transit van you could always get a whiff of petrol so storing a petrol scooter inside your MH living quaters does not appeal to me at all

 

[Wagoneer]

When I did motocross and had bikes in my transit van you could always get a whiff of petrol so storing a petrol scooter inside your MH living quaters does not appeal to me at all

Never had a problem with petrol fumes with my Honda PCX in the garage. And, I drive it in !!!

 

[GPW]

storing a petrol scooter

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Lanerboy]

Yes a

Never had a problem with petrol fumes with my Honda PCX in the garage. And, I drive it in !!!

Yes I agree but it's not like having it behind your drivers seat

 

[PJGWiltshire]

We have the Carthago chic c line bought new June 2016. Had no real issues and got a great GREAT deal from Premium Bawtry. Now three years old and discovered two cracks in right hand section of the shower wall ( van used as full time living so takes heavy use). So 1 year out of warranty, one call to Bawtry asking about cost of replacement, call back next day, Carthago to replace shower wall free of charge (booked in for 9th July). Its clear many owners have had bad experiences with their suppliers but the next owner comes along and has a good experience.

I now have my water ingress service (£130) done by Carthago independent agent in Chichester £50 cheaper than main dealer prices.

So when deciding between Carthago or Hymer I think the feedback will always be different. Go with your heart on a van that fits your needs but balance up the feedbacks

Good luck and look forward to seeing what you get

 

[Terry242]

Interesting. Please can you tell Which Van/model do you have, is it 3.5ton or more?

Hymer Exsis-I 578 Experience Line. 3.5t

It’s a 2017 van and I think the Experience Line was a run of vans that they sold just for that year.
Terry

 

[Lazyboy]

Never owned a Hymer but now on 2nd Carthago. Had a few minor issues but dealer (Camper UK at Lincoln) always keen to help. Build quality good and layout suits us. Fixed island bed with large garage below which has a good weight carrying capacity. First one was 3 axle Fiat at 5,500 kgs GVW but now have Iveco with 8 speed auto which is a completely different vehicle to drive. To me the main benefits are rear wheel drive (twin rear wheels), diff lock, proper spare wheel and oodles of payload. If you decide on Carthago and can get to Camper it is well worth a visit. Good people to deal with. Ask for Dan Hyde and tell him "Paul sent you"!!

 

[Wellington]

I'm having levelling fitted to my Carthago Compactline 138 as we speak, by Camper U.K. in Lincoln. We looked at both Hymer and Carthago (I wanted a small, narrower A class) and just generally preferred the Carthago. No real reason, just felt right. Objectively, I like the double floor and split hob cover, but these probably won’t be such an issue if you are looking at bigger vans than we were. I want to try used first, as I think we will upgrade to twin beds over the garage later (at the moment we have a transverse double) and it does have the darker interior, but plenty of light high gloss ones around. I’d have gone for a new 141, but we wouldn’t have got it in time for this summers jollies.

Prod me in a couple of weeks, and I’ll let you know how we’re getting on with it (if I haven’t already bored everyone to death with it by then!)

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[peterc10]

When I did motocross and had bikes in my transit van you could always get a whiff of petrol so storing a petrol scooter inside your MH living quaters does not appeal to me at all

We have no problem with our Suzuki Address. Did you bikes have a carburettor? New ones have fuel injection, which does not leave any smell.

 

[Lanerboy]

Yes that's a very good point mine where carb I didn't realise scooters etc were injection these days ?

 

[GPW]

Yes that's a very good point mine where carb I didn't realise scooters etc were injection these days ?

Petrol scooters for commuting etc have been injection for a while due to Euro 4 (etc!) regulations, but I think there is an opt-out for the smaller cc capacities. Now the ones above 125cc also have to have ABS too.

In my experience (of buying SYM scooters) the injection systems work well and give more power, economy and reliability than carb models and have never gummed up with fuel either, so definitely try to get an injection model if you can.
IME a modern 250cc scooter is adequate power for any job, bikers don't realise how well the CVT works making big engines unecessary. I.e. on a decent scooter one is always in the right gear and there are thousands

On a small point about the OP's first post - I think he's referring to an electric mobility scooter.

 

[StephDeLux]

Hi

This discussion is very interesting for me right now. We were nearly decided on an Hymer Exsis-t 588 when we thought we might take a look at their Mercedes-based new offering, the ModernComfort MC-T 580, which has a very similar floor plan.

The Mercedes part seems to be quite a bit better than the Ducato and the SLC chassis is indeed pretty interesting with its deep double floor and AL-KO suspension. However the living area gives us mixed feelings. The bathroom is just great, better than on the 588. The lounge area seems to be on par with the 588 but the rest is not so rosy in our opinion. The kitchen is actually a regression with a lower-end fridge, the roof cupboards are smaller and the beds design much worse. Gone is the 2m bed of the 588, you need to get an extension that will ruin the wardrobe and the mattress part that joins the two beds is much, much sorter.

To make things worse for us we learned the Exsis-T 588 is going to be on a Fiat chassis for 2020 and no more on the AL-KO chassis. Who knows what else they'll downgrade.

So we are now taking a second look at Carthago and, surprise, we find a C-Tourer T 143 LE that is very similar to the MC-T 580, but actually seems to be better on almost every regards but with the ridiculously high toilet seat and Fiat instead of Mercedes.

But then I saw the Compactline I 141 LE! Fiat-based, sure, but with extra soundproofing and so compact! 6.6m long, 2.12m wide, same bed size as the other single beds in the Carthago range (2m + 1.9m). Of course this one is pretty pricey.

With the c-tourer T, we'd be at the same price as the Hymer B-MC but loosing Mercedes. With the Compactline A Class, which has my preference, we'd be at a higher budget.

Sorry for the long explanation, my question would be: is the price premium for Carthago, especially the compactline, justified?

Second question: the toilet seat height in the c-tourer is really very high. My wife can't sit on it with her feet touching the floor, which is nearly unusable. How do people use that toilet?

 

[Pausim]

Second question: the toilet seat height in the c-tourer is really very high. My wife can't sit on it with her feet touching the floor, which is nearly unusable. How do people use that toilet?

But then I saw the Compactline I 141 LE! Fiat-based, sure, but with extra soundproofing and so compact! 6.6m long, 2.12m wide, same bed size as the other single beds in the Carthago range (2m + 1.9m). Of course this one is pretty pricey.

I was surprised to discover the 141 was a bit heavier than the slightly longer 143. The dealer thought it might be the space saving design of the shower/toilet compartment.

We are thinking it might be a case of getting a Mothercare toilet step to rest the feet on. It is a bit like a bar stool (stool for a stool).

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Tony50]

Both good , but I would definitely buy a model with light interior ie. interior woodwork ,cabinets and doors as after a few years dark interiors get really dark it may be a good idea to look at some secondhand that are a few years old and compare with new vehicles .

 

[Wellington]

I was surprised to discover the 141 was a bit heavier than the slightly longer 143. The dealer thought it might be the space saving design of the shower/toilet compartment.

We are thinking it might be a case of getting a Mothercare toilet step to rest the feet on. It is a bit like a bar stool (stool for a stool).

It is a bit odd, isn't it? Only around 10kg, iirc, but still, well, odd. The Ikea steps are much cheaper, and pretty good. I must add one to my list. From memory, one was better than another, I think the 141 was lower than the 138, which is stupid high. I'm going to be uncomfortable on it, and my 9 year old is going to need a step, two years after we stopped needing one anywhere else!

 

[StephDeLux]

It is a bit odd, isn't it? Only around 10kg, iirc, but still, well, odd. The Ikea steps are much cheaper, and pretty good. I must add one to my list. From memory, one was better than another, I think the 141 was lower than the 138, which is stupid high. I'm going to be uncomfortable on it, and my 9 year old is going to need a step, two years after we stopped needing one anywhere else!

Yes, the toilet in the 141 is at a normal height. In the 138 and 143 I find it way too high. Frankly I don't understand how such a design ever made it to production.

 

[StephDeLux]

I was surprised to discover the 141 was a bit heavier than the slightly longer 143. The dealer thought it might be the space saving design of the shower/toilet compartment.

We are thinking it might be a case of getting a Mothercare toilet step to rest the feet on. It is a bit like a bar stool (stool for a stool).

I just checked the masses in running order in the German price list:

• I 141LE: 2,920 kg
• I 143 LE: 2,935 kg

The I 141 LE is only 10 kg heavier than a less well appointed Hymer MC-T 580. I find that remarquable.

 

[Lenny HB]

One thing with the Carthago C Tourer and the Compact line is once you have added the extra to them they are nearly as dear as the Chic C Line which is a far superior van.
The early ones were good they were built like the Chic but they have down graded them so much you are better off buying a Chic.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Lenny HB]

The I 141 LE is only 10 kg heavier than a less well appointed Hymer MC-T 580. I find that remarquable.

Hymer's normally come out of the factory at brochure weight Carthago's often about 130kg over.

 

[Shropshire lad]

Ours is a 2017 Hymer 620 MLT. Great garage 1.22m high with 350kg garage payload. Strong Mercedes chassis with rear wheel drive and auto gearbox is great to drive. Far superior to my previous Comfortmatic. Interior finish high quality much better than the latest Hymer offerings. Always liked the look of Carthago’s but found them a bit old fashioned. Comes down to choice of chassis and personal preference in the end.

 

[Pausim]

Both good , but I would definitely buy a model with light interior ie. interior woodwork ,cabinets and doors as after a few years dark interiors get really dark it may be a good idea to look at some secondhand that are a few years old and compare with new vehicles .

The 2019 Compactlines have white fronted cabinets, much brighter

I just checked the masses in running order in the German price list:

• I 141LE: 2,920 kg
• I 143 LE: 2,935 kg

The I 141 LE is only 10 kg heavier than a less well appointed Hymer MC-T 580. I find that remarquable.

The 2019 141 has a MIRO of 2,920kg and the 143 2,895kg. The weights of the unavoidable Chassis and Comfort packages are also less than the equivalent Hymer packages.

 

[StephDeLux]

One thing with the Carthago C Tourer and the Compact line is once you have added the extra to them they are nearly as dear as the Chic C Line which is a far superior van.
The early ones were good they were built like the Chic but they have down graded them so much you are better off buying a Chic.

Hi Lenny
Thanks for the advice, but I really don't see where the big differences are between the c-tourer and chic lines besides more bling in the finishing and 2 batteries instead of 1. There must be something, but the price difference really is enormous.
What am I missing?

 

[StephDeLux]

The 2019 Compactlines have white fronted cabinets, much brighter



The 2019 141 has a MIRO of 2,920kg and the 143 2,895kg. The weights of the unavoidable Chassis and Comfort packages are also less than the equivalent Hymer packages.

Sorry but no. Just copied from the 2019 price list for compactline:

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Lenny HB]

Hi Lenny
Thanks for the advice, but I really don't see where the big differences are between the c-tourer and chic lines besides more bling in the finishing and 2 batteries instead of 1. There must be something, but the price difference really is enormous.
What am I missing?

Fully concealed hinges on the garage and locker doors, Thetford cassette door rather than a Carthago one. General spec levels much lower. My mate had a 2014 C Tourer even if you put nearly every extra on a new one it still doesn't come up to the spec on the one he had.
They are not a bad van but spec has gone down and the price gone up the Chic just appears to be much better value.

 

[Lanerboy]

I have a chic c line supreme model loads of difference from tourer finish far higher lockers open upwards on the side ones with dad struts compare the spec difference it is huge plus the gvw

 

[StephDeLux]

... even if you put nearly every extra on a new one it still doesn't come up to the spec on the one he had.

Again, thanks for sharing your experience, but the options list for the chic line is almost the same as the one for the c-tourer line.

I think you get the essential distinctive Carthago parts straight from the "entry-level" c-tourer t. The compactline is really interesting for us despite the extra cost compared to the c-tourer t.

We want to remain as compact as possible and have single beds. That eliminates the chic line for us, they start at 7.4 meters.

 

[Casper46]

I had a kiddies footstool in the toilet cubicle when we had the C Line, the E Line is more of a normal height. I would have quoted Stephane but I have not yet fathomed how to attach quotes since the site has been changed

 

[Pausim]

Sorry but no. Just copied from the 2019 price list for compactline:

View attachment 314944

Odd. The 2895 comes from the 2019 UK price and weights catalogue and matches the figure given on my factory issued confirmation order. Perhaps the UK spec is marginally different.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}