What is the answer ?

[Nanniemate]

Lost track of this thread at elephants

 

[John Barrett]

Biggest Football Firm in the Country back then was the Metropolitan Police.

How interesting. Perhaps you could enlighten us with examples from your personal experience, as I don't remember seeing any
one being handled in a way that they didn't deserve..

 

[Sapper520]

Ah Brizzle, that dark splinter of London that nestles in the Zummerzet Beauty

I did a short install job at the Cigar factory in the late 90's which was right opposite one of the City/Rovers ground. We was kept inside the factory watching the fighting going on after the Derby match. Watching from the roof was quite an experience and I was glad I was behind those locked factory gates.

You should have seen the horse charges across Ashton Park, which is opposite Ashton Gate. Proper full on cavalry charges……I would watch on thinking, ‘I could be watching rugby, next to the opposition supporters, with a beer in my hand’. Instead, I was watching supposedly grown up adults trying to get at each other, with ‘The VERY Thin Blue Line‘ between them.

Crazy people.

 

[nicholsong]

Should have checked with the real workers in the hangar, time and a half evening and Saturday overtime, double time Sunday and double time with a day in lieu on bank holidays. I remember a co-pilot getting upset when my pay was higher than his. Still he chose a career where no one can see you looking cool at forty thousand feet. Added bonus of higher solar radiation risk, living from one medical to the next to see if you will still have a job. Admittedly all the girls in the office seemed keener on the aircrew, until we pointed out engineers wash there hands before and after having a pee as we like to keep our kit clean

So only 'real workers' got overtime.

So what is your description for those of us employees who did not get overtime?

[Incidentally you left out pilots' 6-month simulator checks, which can also lead to grounding]

 

[Spawn_e_git]

How interesting. Perhaps you could enlighten us with examples from your personal experience, as I don't remember seeing any
one being handled in a way that they didn't deserve..

It would drag the thread off topic and probably cause it to be closed but yeah plenty seen. Both sides just as bad. Lucky for me I was young in the early-mid 80's so was generally not involved and left alone.

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[68c]

So only 'real workers' got overtime.............

Hey, only meant in jest. I learnt a long time ago the real difference between air and ground crew. Ground crew have all the time they need to solve a problem, sit with a book, phone a friend etc. Aircrew may be alone with very little time to decide and act. Takes a special kind of confident and able person.

 

[Odd-no-more]

You’re wrong about PCC’s not getting rid of Chief Constables, PCC’s have also overruled Chief Constables with Crime Priorities…..but again, I’ll leave it at that as I must be mistaken.

I have never seen it, but if it's up to them to decide priorities, why when they're campaigning do the not say if this doesn't happen I will sack the CC? It would be far better if we could vote for the CC then they would be accountable. The way it is at the moment I doubt anyone is happy with the police, I believe I have more to fear from the in police, than the thieves do.

 

[Odd-no-more]

Whaaat! why the hell are the Police, or any Public Servants paid "double time" on Bank Holidays, that practice ceased in most of the Private Sector a long time ago!

Cheers
Red.

When I was on call on a bank holiday, if called out I was on triple time

 

[gpat]

But Trespass is a civil offence unless deemed criminal under the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act. If a Caravan site is not listed under that act, it is not a police matter unless they commit other offences.

Trust me, I am in no way an apologist for this, just need perspective. Not sure a school trip in the 60's is a relevant comparison as the Police here in the 60's would probably have acted in a similar way.

Not sure the French police were that effective during the Gilet-Jaune protests recently despite some of their conduct.

Trespass is a civil matter agreed, but criminal damage is not.

Its a discriminatory view of course. But if the police and the courts really had a desire to protect the populous from the heinous way some travellers behave and the damage they do, they would not hide behind this technicality. Smashing down fences to get access is criminal damage in my view.

If a burglar gained entry to my house by smashing a window and then sat on the sofa eating popcorn would the police say its a civil matter, we can't move him out.

 

[David and Sally]

Smashing down fences to get access is criminal damage in my view.

But they can't prove who actually did it. That's the rub. "Not us officer, it was like that when we arrived"

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[Jimbohorlicks]

If travellers moved onto my land I would borrow the local farmers tractor and muck spreader,I wouldn't give them any warning either.
Farmyard sh1t is easier to clean up that traveller exctement.

 

[gpat]

But they can't prove who actually did it. That's the rub. "Not us officer, it was like that when we arrived"

I think they could prove it if they really wanted to. Easier to walk away and leave the poor landowner with the problem.

What a strange world we live in?

 

[David and Sally]

I think they could prove it if they really wanted to.

How please?

 

[Spawn_e_git]

Trespass is a civil matter agreed, but criminal damage is not.

Its a discriminatory view of course. But if the police and the courts really had a desire to protect the populous from the heinous way some travellers behave and the damage they do, they would not hide behind this technicality. Smashing down fences to get access is criminal damage in my view.

If a burglar gained entry to my house by smashing a window and then sat on the sofa eating popcorn would the police say its a civil matter, we can't move him out.

Agree with what you say and the smashing down of fences or breaking the window is the Criminal part for which the police could (and should) intervene.

I would like to see more done. Perhaps the confiscation of item used in the trespass would be an option. Admittedly, I would not want to see the caravans taken away as that would make them homeless and there are more than likely to be children involved who would be affected through no fault of their own.

Maybe the brand new (untaxed normally) Range Rover would not be essential to the welfare of said children and could be confiscated? Currently they walk (or drive) away after a few days when the owner finally gets a court order and that owner is left to clear the mess left. It's out of order and something needs to be done but targeting one group with specific laws normally fails in the courts anyway.
Not sure if Trespass was made a criminal offence would it mean the police have to deal with punters being ejected from pubs, the homeless sleeping in a shop doorway, or called out to some Lord's estate where someone is using a public footpath but Mr Lord does not want them there and claims they have strayed off the path?

These things never end well as the law ends up being used wrongly. I always remember an old man being prevented from re-entering a conference under the Prevention of Terrorism Act for shouting "nonsense" at the then HS Jack Straw. Clearly this is a misuse of the act's purpose. The old boy could have been detained for 14 days instead of the normal 48 hours if he was nicked under that law.

BBC NEWS | Politics | Labour issues apology to heckler

 

[gpat]

How please?

Forensics? Interviews under caution? 24 hour arrest?

I agree its not easy but the more hassle they get the more likely they are to think twice rather than just laughing in our faces.

I was going to say the same way the police catch burglars.....but then I remembered.....they dont

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[David and Sally]

Forensics? Interviews under caution? 24 hour arrest?

I'm afraid that is way too simplistic. So 10 vans arrive. Are you going to arrest twenty adults? What are you going to do with 20+ children?
What forensics? Gate padlock cut, but with what? Are you going to get warrants to search 10 vans and vehicles?
Unless the police have any evidence or suspicion against an individual or individuals they are powerless.

I think most forces have dedicated traveller experts and I don't think they know the answers.

I do agree more hassle would help.

 

[PhilandMena]

Wall. Line. 9mm hollow point.
Makes me laugh that people still phone the police. Plod UK are the most useless bunch of yellow spined, Liberal, useless bunch of panzies ever to wear uniforms. They only go in mob handed to ladies walking together on deserted moors or Little old ladies sitting on park benches. They never EVER do anything about the Itinerants.
They always have their hands tied. only tied by cowardice but still tied.

Something wrong about this post. Very one sided, emotive and quite extreme I. M.O..

 

[Odd-no-more]

Something wrong about this post. Very one sided, emotive and quite extreme I. M.O..

I know of people who have had a car stolen and house robbed with nothing but a crime number and some sympathy. Although they did actually send a car to my daughter when a group of men with machetes tried to car-jack her. She received a crime number and sympathy in person for that. Of course nobody was arrested for any of these, as I said the police are just an extension of social services

 

[DDJC]

Something wrong about this post. Very one sided, emotive and quite extreme I. M.O..

Maybe, but these (collective noun for travellers? Anyone?) need to be forcibly made aware that the very civilised society that they are happy to crap on, are sick and tired of their ways. Doing what you like, when you like and the stealing, vandalism, drugs, noise, filth and feral behaviour should not be accepted by normal people. And if that involves the Police eviting them with bulldozers, I am OK with it.

It's not racist to hate the way these people behave, despite what woolly limp liberals (small l) say. We should be making it impossible for these people to get onto someone else's land, not creating more and more sites for them to run their criminal enterprises from.

 

[Sapper520]

I have never seen it, but if it's up to them to decide priorities, why when they're campaigning do the not say if this doesn't happen I will sack the CC? It would be far better if we could vote for the CC then they would be accountable. The way it is at the moment I doubt anyone is happy with the police, I believe I have more to fear from the in police, than the thieves do.

Usually it comes under Early Retirement, Contract not extended or other such phrases. PCC‘s are getting together and pushing for the ability to sack Chief Constables. The information isn’t hard to find.

What do you actually fear from my son or nephew?
I can assure you I wouldn’t have put you in fear.

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[Sapper520]

Forensics? Interviews under caution? 24 hour arrest?

I agree its not easy but the more hassle they get the more likely they are to think twice rather than just laughing in our faces.

I was going to say the same way the police catch burglars.....but then I remembered.....they dont

Can I ask how much real world experience you have in Policing?

 

[Nanniemate]

what happened to the elephants

 

[John Barrett]

what happened to the elephants

They are still in the room?

 

[Sapper520]

They are still in the room?

Which room…..need a search party?

 

[Odd-no-more]

Usually it comes under Early Retirement, Contract not extended or other such phrases. PCC‘s are getting together and pushing for the ability to sack Chief Constables. The information isn’t hard to find.

What do you actually fear from my son or nephew?
I can assure you I wouldn’t have put you in fear.

I fear if I defend myself I am more likely to be arrested than the attacker, especially if I have something they consider a weapon

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[Odd-no-more]

what happened to the elephants

My elephant and even my monkey were not arrested

 

[John Barrett]

I fear if I defend myself I am more likely to be arrested than the attacker, especially if I have something they consider a weapon

The law is on your side provided you do not premeditate the use of what could be deemed an offensive weapon e.g. you can use a big heavy walking stick that you keep in the hallway!

 

[Odd-no-more]

The law is on your side provided you do not premeditate the use of what could be deemed an offensive weapon e.g. you can use a big heavy walking stick that you keep in the hallway!

I would like to have something better as I am allowed on France. Also if I strike the first blow I'm going to be arrested. I'm almost 70 years old so I can't wait until I'm hit first

 

[David and Sally]

I would like to have something better as I am allowed on France. Also if I strike the first blow I'm going to be arrested. I'm almost 70 years old so I can't wait until I'm hit first

Not true. If you strike out in genuine fear of yours or another's safety then you are entitled to defend yourself with reasonable force..

 

[Sapper520]

I fear if I defend myself I am more likely to be arrested than the attacker, especially if I have something they consider a weapon

You’d be alright. One or two high profile cases where home owner shoots burglar or alike.……..hopefully you’ve never had to defend yourself using such force. Not many people have had this experience. It’s the fear of crime that most people formulate their opinions from, as opposed to actual experience.

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