What is the answer ?

[Sapper520]

If you read my earlier post about the stolen transit tipper you will see what I mean. That was not a civil matter. It was a criminal act.

I have another example. I was dropping my daughter off at university halls in Bradford. As I was parked there at the kerbside a car stopped opposite on the other side of the road. Very suspicious, blackout windows. Then a black range rover came and parked in the middle of the road, effectively blocking it. The people got out of each vehicle and started exchanging high fives etc. Then they got down to some serious talk. A queue of cars started to form. One of the cars was a panda. A wpc and a pc. They looked on as the gangsters started exchanging briefcases which even I could see contained cash as they took some out and checked it.. Other suspicious packages were then duly exchanged. Then there was more high fives, they got back in their cars are drove off. I was astonished. I didn't blame the pc and wpc as these were scary looking people. I would have sat tight as well. Maybe they summoned support but what was amazing was how unconcerned the gangsters were that the panda was there.

Community Housing Association complained about speeders and boy racers…..told them I would organise something when my shifts allowed. Operation set up on days / times locals told me it was happening……only caught locals speeding. That made me popular……of course it was my fault.

100 mile round trip for 10 officers from the south of the force to Police Football matches every Saturday in the football season……good use of resources? Another day off my area to Police those law abiding Football Fans 50 miles away……never needed at Rugby (played at the same grounds) or cricket.

I’m definitely leaving it at that.

 

[Otter Spotter]

If you read my earlier post about the stolen transit tipper you will see what I mean. That was not a civil matter. It was a criminal act.

I have another example. I was dropping my daughter off at university halls in Bradford. As I was parked there at the kerbside a car stopped opposite on the other side of the road. Very suspicious, blackout windows. Then a black range rover came and parked in the middle of the road, effectively blocking it. The people got out of each vehicle and started exchanging high fives etc. Then they got down to some serious talk. A queue of cars started to form. One of the cars was a panda. A wpc and a pc. They looked on as the gangsters started exchanging briefcases which even I could see contained cash as they took some out and checked it.. Other suspicious packages were then duly exchanged. Then there was more high fives, they got back in their cars are drove off. I was astonished. I didn't blame the pc and wpc as these were scary looking people. I would have sat tight as well. Maybe they summoned support but what was amazing was how unconcerned the gangsters were that the panda was there.

Probably filming a scene from ‘Happy Valley’

 

[emjaiuk]

Spineless politicians

Home Secretary's decision on water cannon use

Announcement of the Home Secretary’s decision on the authorisation of water cannon and supporting evidence.

www.gov.uk

My son is a long serving Met Police officer. He has used both Taser and Baton during his duties, but he is scared sh*tl*ss every time he uses them, as he knows he would not automatically be supported if there was a complaint, and quite frankly he doesn't want to put his pension at risk.

 

[EuroTrotters]

Well ROI, France and Poland, amongst others, seem not to have the problem, so there must be some solution.

In Portugal, I was told the travellers stuck to fingers up at the police when they took over a campsite.

Do I think the GNR were called and they were removed.

 

[EuroTrotters]

There are good and bad Traveller groups as there are in the Caravan and MoHo community - take Wookey hole last year par example. Another example last week - crapping en-route to the Snowdon Summit....

Please don't blame the police. There simply is no simple solution folks.

We grew up alongside travellers . I still come across them through my wife’s brother in law and through work.

I’ve never met a good one yet. Bullies, mob handed and not all the big hard bare knuckle fighters they make themselves out to be.

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[Odd-no-more]

There are good and bad Traveller groups

I have never seen a good one

 

[gpat]

I have never seen a good one

Me neither sadly

For the purposes of this forum maybe we should call them large groups of FLTs

 

[Odd-no-more]

One of the hardest jobs going when trying to please people.

I have met many pleasant cops, but also some not so pleasant ones. Including the one who tried to arrest me along with my elephant when I was working as a beach photographer on a licenced pitch , I expect he was after a backhander.

 

[David and Sally]

I have met many pleasant cops, but also some not so pleasant ones. Including the one who tried to arrest me along with my elephant when I was working as a beach photographer on a licenced pitch , I expect he was after a backhander.

How on earth was he going to get an elephant into his panda car? Imagine trying to book that into custody.

 

[TinaLes]

They have more legal protection than we tax paying, law abiding citizens will ever have, even though they seem to break every law known, they dont seem to be pulled up often enough.
Watched this on the BBC news yesterday, (see below) oh how my heart bleeds for them, the item says it all 80% unemployed, only a third getting basic education, they might do better if they attended more often, living in squalor is their choice.
LES

Irish Travellers 'mental health crisis' driven by discrimination and deprivation

Discrimination and deprivation are among key factors in the struggles felt by the community in Ireland.

www.bbc.co.uk

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[Odd-no-more]

How on earth was he going to get an elephant into his panda car? Imagine trying to book that into custody.

It wasn't a real elephant, although I did have a real monkey.

 

[Odd-no-more]

There will be a lot of talking, a lot of promising but nothing will change. The police are more like a department of social services than a force to catch law breakers. As citizens we have no protection from the police, but if we carry anything to help protect ourselves and have to use it, we are more likely to be arrested than a thief. Unless we the public, get some say in what the police do we will be stuck with this situation for ever. I would like to see the Chief Constable become an elected position, that would have some effect on what is a priority. It will never happen, our political masters are far to scared of any real democracy.

 

[David and Sally]

There will be a lot of talking, a lot of promising but nothing will change. The police are more like a department of social services than a force to catch law breakers. As citizens we have no protection from the police, but if we carry anything to help protect ourselves and have to use it, we are more likely to be arrested than a thief. Unless we the public, get some say in what the police do we will be stuck with this situation for ever. I would like to see the Chief Constable become an elected position, that would have some effect on what is a priority. It will never happen, our political masters are far to scared of any real democracy.

Police Commissioners are elected. They are the ones responsible for local policies. Get on to them.

Too many CCs are career, fast-tracked officers selected on box-ticking PC criteria rather than ability to police. They have spent very little time actually policing.

 

[Odd-no-more]

Police Commissioners are elected. They are the ones responsible for local policies. Get on to them.

Police commissioners are an illusion, they are just an extra job for failing politicians, not one of them had sacked a Chief Constable for having the wrong policy. If the top man/women had to explain their aims and results to us in order to keep their jobs, we would get better policing

 

[Sapper520]

Police commissioners are an illusion, they are just an extra job for failing politicians, not one of them had sacked a Chief Constable for having the wrong policy. If the top man/women had to explain their aims and results to us in order to keep their jobs, we would get better policing

You’re wrong about PCC’s not getting rid of Chief Constables, PCC’s have also overruled Chief Constables with Crime Priorities…..but again, I’ll leave it at that as I must be mistaken.

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[Otter Spotter]

He

How on earth was he going to get an elephant into his panda car? Imagine trying to book that into custody.

was probably more concerned about the ‘Panda’ ending up inside the Elephant

 

[Sapper520]

He

was probably more concerned about the ‘Panda’ ending up inside the Elephant

Scratching my head looking for the offences there.

 

[Spawn_e_git]

100 mile round trip for 10 officers from the south of the force to Police Football matches every Saturday in the football season……good use of resources? Another day off my area to Police those law abiding Football Fans 50 miles away……never needed at Rugby (played at the same grounds) or cricket.

Do the clubs pay for the Policing at the matches? I know PL clubs do and judging by your location, I can't think of any PL club in that area. Do lower league clubs also have to pay? [My assumption on location could be wildly wring here ]

Appreciate, pay or not it does not resolve the waste of resource but if clubs are paying then this should be covered by OT and not the normal shift?

Putting your head above the parapet is brave from the purpose of people expecting Plod to pick up the tear gas and batons to deal with 's but as someone who has seen 1st hand how more heavy handed police action can be in other countries, I feel the balance needs to be respected.

Anyone who feels heavy handed tactics would only be used on groups or individuals THEY feel deserve it are living in cloud cuckoo land.

 

[Sapper520]

Do the clubs pay for the Policing at the matches? I know PL clubs do and judging by your location, I can't think of any PL club in that area. Do lower league clubs also have to pay? [My assumption on location could be wildly wring here ]

Appreciate, pay or not it does not resolve the waste of resource but if clubs are paying then this should be covered by OT and not the normal shift?

Putting your head above the parapet is brave from the purpose of people expecting Plod to pick up the tear gas and batons to deal with 's but as someone who has seen 1st hand how more heavy handed police action can be in other countries, I feel the balance needs to be respected.

Anyone who feels heavy handed tactics would only be used on groups or individuals THEY feel deserve it are living in cloud cuckoo land.

During my time the clubs would only pay for the officers inside the ground, and I believe a contribution to the rest. As most of the public order problems happened outside Police in numbers needed to present. Horses, dogs, helicopter…….that was just for Bristol City! Bristol Rovers required slightly less input, but still resources from miles outside the city. Put me off football for life.

Overtime….some needed to be, or there would be a problem getting enough officers together. But most was rostered, so we were on a shift that took in travel, to and from the ground, as not to incur overtime. Somerset always gets the short end of the stick when Bristol needs resources, probably still the same today.

I’m sure it’s all different now with most clubs using stewards inside the ground. But as you see from the recent Wembley incident, Police still need to be nearby…..

 

[RedFrame]

Money.

The Travellers know that most Police Forces operate, on Bank Holidays, with the minimum manning levels permitted due to cost implications of double time working. Therefore, most areas have less cover on Bank Holidays than normal days.

Whaaat! why the hell are the Police, or any Public Servants paid "double time" on Bank Holidays, that practice ceased in most of the Private Sector a long time ago!

Cheers
Red.

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[nicholsong]

Whaaat! why the hell are the Police, or any Public Servants paid "double time" on Bank Holidays, that practice ceased in most of the Private Sector a long time ago!

Cheers
Red.

It never existed in Aviation AFAIK, but certainly not after 1967 when I started flying W/Es, Bank Holidays.

 

[Trevor Wbm]

Seems it's OK to use a couple of incidents to justify vilification of all the police officers in the UK. Here's a reminder of some others:

Fallen Officers - The Police Memorial Trust

Trust Memorials

thepolicememorialtrust.org

 

[68c]

It never existed in Aviation AFAIK, but certainly not after 1967 when I started flying W/Es, Bank Holidays.

Should have checked with the real workers in the hangar, time and a half evening and Saturday overtime, double time Sunday and double time with a day in lieu on bank holidays. I remember a co-pilot getting upset when my pay was higher than his. Still he chose a career where no one can see you looking cool at forty thousand feet. Added bonus of higher solar radiation risk, living from one medical to the next to see if you will still have a job. Admittedly all the girls in the office seemed keener on the aircrew, until we pointed out engineers wash there hands before and after having a pee as we like to keep our kit clean

 

[Sapper520]

Whaaat! why the hell are the Police, or any Public Servants paid "double time" on Bank Holidays, that practice ceased in most of the Private Sector a long time ago!

Cheers
Red.

 

[emjaiuk]

Putting your head above the parapet is brave from the purpose of people expecting Plod to pick up the tear gas and batons to deal with 's but as someone who has seen 1st hand how more heavy handed police action can be in other countries, I feel the balance needs to be respected.

Anyone who feels heavy handed tactics would only be used on groups or individuals THEY feel deserve it are living in cloud cuckoo land.

It is however an effective deterrent. I was on a school trip to Paris in the 60s and was amazed at the speed the CRS broke up student riots blocking main roads. More recently, a few years back lorry drivers in Bilbao were in dispute with somebody, and their main tactic was blocking the departure lanes at the port. A couple of buses pulled up and some sort of police got out, very smartly dressed in red sweaters and berets and black combat trousers. Before they were all out of the buses over half the lorries had gone.
The question should be do we want the police to enforce the law, if yes they should be given the resources to do so.

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[Otter Spotter]

Other side of the coin, I have no sympathy for them, they choice the lifestyle and in many cases will not accept help without spoiling it for themselves. Instances of local authorities providing new properties which were then stripped for scrap within weeks. Peer Pressure within traveller communities causing bigger trouble than they wil admit.

 

[Spawn_e_git]

It is however an effective deterrent. I was on a school trip to Paris in the 60s and was amazed at the speed the CRS broke up student riots blocking main roads. More recently, a few years back lorry drivers in Bilbao were in dispute with somebody, and their main tactic was blocking the departure lanes at the port. A couple of buses pulled up and some sort of police got out, very smartly dressed in red sweaters and berets and black combat trousers. Before they were all out of the buses over half the lorries had gone.
The question should be do we want the police to enforce the law, if yes they should be given the resources to do so.

But Trespass is a civil offence unless deemed criminal under the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act. If a Caravan site is not listed under that act, it is not a police matter unless they commit other offences.

Trust me, I am in no way an apologist for this, just need perspective. Not sure a school trip in the 60's is a relevant comparison as the Police here in the 60's would probably have acted in a similar way.

Not sure the French police were that effective during the Gilet-Jaune protests recently despite some of their conduct.

 

[John Barrett]

I was stationed at Wembley Nick mid 70s, dealing with the scum of the earth. Like Sapper520, need I say more...

 

[Spawn_e_git]

During my time the clubs would only pay for the officers inside the ground, and I believe a contribution to the rest. As most of the public order problems happened outside Police in numbers needed to present. Horses, dogs, helicopter…….that was just for Bristol City! Bristol Rovers required slightly less input, but still resources from miles outside the city. Put me off football for life.

Overtime….some needed to be, or there would be a problem getting enough officers together. But most was rostered, so we were on a shift that took in travel, to and from the ground, as not to incur overtime. Somerset always gets the short end of the stick when Bristol needs resources, probably still the same today.

I’m sure it’s all different now with most clubs using stewards inside the ground. But as you see from the recent Wembley incident, Police still need to be nearby…..

Ah Brizzle, that dark splinter of London that nestles in the Zummerzet Beauty

I did a short install job at the Cigar factory in the late 90's which was right opposite one of the City/Rovers ground. We was kept inside the factory watching the fighting going on after the Derby match. Watching from the roof was quite an experience and I was glad I was behind those locked factory gates.

 

[Spawn_e_git]

I was stationed at Wembley Nick mid 70s, dealing with the scum of the earth. Like Sapper520, need I say more...

Biggest Football Firm in the Country back then was the Metropolitan Police.

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