what about this new ferry service (1 Viewer)

[RidersofRohan]

Flawed logic methinks, more lorries to join the ever increasing queues unless something is done to relieve the bottleneck

No simple maths. If due to delays a lorry can only do 2 journeys in the time taken to do 3 journeys previously, to do the same number of journeys you need more lorries. The number of journeys across the water remains the same, hence no need for more ferries but an obvious need for more lorries.

 

[RidersofRohan]

I’m still a bit confused why VAT should cause a delay at the ports. I’ve never paid any VAT collected in my business to HMRC on the day I collected it, usually the following quarter less any VAT I had paid out. Sure there is some extra paperwork I can see that, but surely that’s to be done before shipping. The only delay at port would be if the paperwork hadn’t been done?

 

[2657]

No simple maths. If due to delays a lorry can only do 2 journeys in the time taken to do 3 journeys previously, to do the same number of journeys you need more lorries. The number of journeys across the water remains the same, hence no need for more ferries but an obvious need for more lorries.

So if there are delays to traffic caused by road works for example we will make the delays less by putting more vehicles in the queue?

Obviously to move the same amount of goods more lorries would be needed but the delays at the bottleneck would simply get longer and longer unless something relieves the bottleneck, in this case more customs clearance facilities.

Ports like Dover do not have the space for lorries to wait for clearance and probably no space for extra customs clearance facilities hence the need for ferries and capacity on different routes to spread the load to other ports.

Most of the alternative routes are longer hence the need for more ferries even if some are re routed from Dover.

 

[2657]

I’m still a bit confused why VAT should cause a delay at the ports. I’ve never paid any VAT collected in my business to HMRC on the day I collected it, usually the following quarter less any VAT I had paid out. Sure there is some extra paperwork I can see that, but surely that’s to be done before shipping. The only delay at port would be if the paperwork hadn’t been done?

Don't think VAT is or will be a problem, that is an internal tax and the rate is set by each country, the problem will be customs tariffs of which there are none between EU member states.

 

[Paddywack]

I’m still a bit confused why VAT should cause a delay at the ports. I’ve never paid any VAT collected in my business to HMRC on the day I collected it, usually the following quarter less any VAT I had paid out. Sure there is some extra paperwork I can see that, but surely that’s to be done before shipping. The only delay at port would be if the paperwork hadn’t been done?

To give yourself some idea of the VAT implications post brexit have a read of the steps the Treasury was trying to put in place in the event of deal https://www.accountancydaily.co/plans-frictionless-vat-and-customs-regime-post-brexit

In the event of no deal, you can multiply those by a factor of ten.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[RidersofRohan]

So if there are delays to traffic caused by road works for example we will make the delays less by putting more vehicles in the queue?

Obviously to move the same amount of goods more lorries would be needed but the delays at the bottleneck would simply get longer and longer unless something relieves the bottleneck, in this case more customs clearance facilities.

Ports like Dover do not have the space for lorries to wait for clearance and probably no space for extra customs clearance facilities hence the need for ferries and capacity on different routes to spread the load to other ports.

Most of the alternative routes are longer hence the need for more ferries even if some are re routed from Dover.

Good that clears that up. Thanks.
If there are delays and a lorry takes longer to get there more lorries are needed to make the same number of journeys.
Similarly if the ferry route is longer it will need more ferries to make the same number of journeys.

 

[2657]

Good that clears that up. Thanks.
If there are delays and a lorry takes longer to get there more lorries are needed to make the same number of journeys.
Similarly if the ferry route is longer it will need more ferries to make the same number of journeys.

Yes but the fundamental problem will only be resolved by removing the bottleneck, simply putting more lorries in the queue resolves nothing and in effect transforms the lorries into mobile warehouses which raises the point as to who will pay the bill for the extra transport costs.

I operate a lorry and if I can only do say 2 loads a week instead of 3 as per your example then either I charge my customer more or go out of business.

 

[RidersofRohan]

To give yourself some idea of the VAT implications post brexit have a read of the steps the Treasury was trying to put in place in the event of deal https://www.accountancydaily.co/plans-frictionless-vat-and-customs-regime-post-brexit

In the event of no deal, you can multiply those by a factor of ten.

Thanks again. The article is dated Oct 2017, has no progress been made on this since. The article suggests to me they believe there are technological ways around “checking at ports” but in the event of a no deal businesses who only export to the EU would need to register with hmrc and then provide the necessary paperwork. Small parcels via Royal Mail and other parcel couriers seem to be the main concern presumably these come through bonded warehouses or depots and tariff charges are levied over the doorstep by the courier delivery van driver. Good news for Mercedes, more vans needed.
They have had a year to make progress on the methodology outlined in the article, wonder if they have.

 

[RidersofRohan]

Yes but the fundamental problem will only be resolved by removing the bottleneck, simply putting more lorries in the queue resolves nothing and in effect transforms the lorries into mobile warehouses which raises the point as to who will pay the bill for the extra transport costs.

I operate a lorry and if I can only do say 2 loads a week instead of 3 as per your example then either I charge my customer more or go out of business.

Fully appreciate your problem, that’s why I highlighted my concern at the need for more lorries in the first place.

 

[Paddywack]

Thanks again. The article is dated Oct 2017, has no progress been made on this since.
They have had a year to make progress on the methodology outlined in the article, wonder if they have.

Latest https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...l/vat-for-businesses-if-theres-no-brexit-deal

"Current EU rules would mean that EU member states will treat goods entering the EU from the UK in the same way as goods entering from other non-EU countries with associated import VAT and customs duties due when the goods arrive into the EU. Individual EU member states may have different rules for import VAT for non-EU countries and import VAT payments may be due at the border when importing goods. UK businesses should check the relevant import VAT rules in the EU Member State concerned."

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Ivory55]

Yes but the fundamental problem will only be resolved by removing the bottleneck, simply putting more lorries in the queue resolves nothing and in effect transforms the lorries into mobile warehouses which raises the point as to who will pay the bill for the extra transport costs.

I operate a lorry and if I can only do say 2 loads a week instead of 3 as per your example then either I charge my customer more or go out of business.

Some places I have delivered to I thought that was the policy to use the trucks as a warehouse on wheels. Haha.

 

[Gellyneck]

Vat is a tax on goods used in the EU, so if goods are exported outside the EU, you do not charge VAT. Once we're outside EU the problems start. For example car parts, a crankshaft for a BMW mini can cross the channel four times during manufacturer from France to the UK, UK to Germany, back to the UK and then back to Europe if an export. Imagine the VAT paperwork on that from the 30th March?

It'll probably be covered under existing Customs procedures, ie Inward and Outward Processing Relief which is an absolute bu**er to record and manage!

 

[anniej]

It would be ideal as it is only a throw away from Manston Airport which is trialling the HGV stack tomorrow.

 

[gus-lopez]

It will be interesting to see the effect of foreign trucks not running around doing domestic work in UK , esp Irish !!

They will still have the same rights as they have always had to come & go with less trouble than UK citizens.

What happens when all the lorries are backed up here and in Calais and Spain, France etc are waiting for their return to carry on their business. It’s not going to happen!

Firm u the road has 1500 trcucks with around 500 at any one time in transit between here & the UK. All run 2 drivers & are registered to the Portugese arm of the firm. Just with east european drivers The other 1000 run around in europe . Can't see they are going to be too worried.

promoted beyond his level of incompetence.

A "post turtle" you mean ?

It would be ideal as it is only a throw away from Manston Airport which is trialling the HGV stack tomorrow.

It would be .Unfortunately they haven't the brains to work that one out though. & the trial is Monday ,unless they've moved it ?

 

[Langtoftlad]

A "post turtle" you mean ??

Indeed

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[scousebird]

From our bedroom window we can just about see the Sandwich by-pass. The lorry trial from Manston to Dover started at 7am and having checked 15 minutes ago it looked like the bypass is flowing well atm but rush hour hasn't really started yet.

 

[Spriddler]

Where are they finding all these lorries? Surely no business would want its vehicles off the road and not earning any money?

 

[scousebird]

Where are they finding all these lorries? Surely no business would want its vehicles off the road and not earning any money?

Not sure where all the lorries have come from.

 

[PhilMary]

Where are they finding all these lorries? Surely no business would want its vehicles off the road and not earning any money?

HM Gov. has contracted them at great cost.
Phil

 

[gus-lopez]

HM Gov. has contracted them at great cost.
Phil

What he said ^^^^^^^the gov is paying them to cause conngestion

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[chaser]

What he said ^^^^^^^the gov is paying them to cause conngestion

the mind boggles, there are thousands of people already making fortunes out of b....... and it hasnt even happened yet

 

[Pekepal]

150 lorries ridiculous. This will not give a true reading of situation. Where are they turning round as all the roundabouts on this route are tight and they say they are not going into Dover harbour. complete congestion especially top of Jubilee Way or the roundabout at Whitfield. Surely this will cause more lorries to use the M20 today instead of A2 causing more chaos!

 

[Tykatem]

Pete

 

[gus-lopez]

Now Ostend has said it won't be ready .

 

[grumps147]

Just been on the news, it's scuppered.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Pausim]

The Irish Co Arklow, which I believe actually has ferries, has withdrawn their backing. Perhaps they have decided they might need them at home.