What’s Gadget John talking about ? 🥴 (1 Viewer)

[jerryz]

Why hasn’t this voltage issue on Lithium batteries been mentioned before ? Is it actually an issue ?

is that a proper MOSFET Regulator /Rectifier or a nasty old shunt type ????

 

[Pausim]

Is this a problem if the power comes via an EBL rather than directly from battery? I’m assuming that the EBL does some form of voltage control?

I wouldn't assume the EBL includes voltage control. I could be wrong but it is not something I would expect. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable than me will be along shortly. Motorhome kit should have voltage tolerances that can cope so I don’t see it as a job the EBL should need to do.

 

[Peavy]

Is this a problem if the power comes via an EBL rather than directly from battery? I’m assuming that the EBL does some form of voltage control?

Better from the EBL, as would cut-allow power to determined circuits depending on the selection from the panel or the battery status.
There are separate 12V circuits also protected with different fuses.
I want to connect the Maxxfan to a spare line from the EBL, instead of using the same line for the TV socket that I use now.
I need a 9 pin connector to the spare socket for that.

 

[Peavy]

I wouldn't assume the EBL includes voltage control.

It does, as it monitors the voltage and would protect appliances from under voltage.

 

[Pausim]

It does, as it monitors the voltage and would protect appliances from under voltage.
View attachment 928105

The EBL battery monitor unit seems to protect the battery from complete discharge but I can’t see a 12V voltage control role of the type being advocated.

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[autorouter]

The EBL definitely does not control the voltage if it is too high. If it goes too low then as Peavy has described, it will cut off the power. The EBL mains charger will routinely raise the voltage to 14.4V, or 14.8V for an AGM, for several hours. This is standard, expected behaviour that has been normal for decades. In my 2006 Hymer charger for example.

For some people this has not been a problem, because they don't use hookup, have no solar, and don't use appliances when the alternator is charging the battery while driving. So the battery is mostly below 13V when powering habitation circuits.

It's true that there is a voltage problem with some newer '12V' devices used in motorhomes, like TVs, routers and fans. But to say it's just lithium batteries that cause it shows a worrying lack of awareness of the cause and extent of the problem.

 

[rolosroller]

Got the electrics sorted

Thanks John

 

[68c]

This business or running our nominaly 12volt kit on a voltage anywhere from 11.5 to 14.5volts, has often made me think a stabilised supply would be better. However I thought one would use a single Buck Converter regulator for the all the 12volt kit, not fit different units for each item. My one concern is how much power they waste, how efficient are they? I suppose running nominaly 12volt kit on higher voltages mean they would consume more power and get hotter, so perhaps the Buck Converter losses are not so important. Finally how smooth us the output?

 

[autorouter]

This business or running our nominaly 12volt kit on a voltage anywhere from 11.5 to 14.5volts, has often made me think a stabilised supply would be better. However I thought one would use a single Buck Converter regulator for the all the 12volt kit, not fit different units for each item. My one concern is how much power they waste, how efficient are they? I suppose running nominaly 12volt kit on higher voltages mean they would consume more power and get hotter, so perhaps the Buck Converter losses are not so important. Finally how smooth us the output?

Most of the devices labelled as 12V, intended for use in a vehicle, will not need any voltage stabiliser. It's only a few devices, the ones that usually have a 12V supply powered from the mains, that require a voltage stabiliser. Putting everything on a voltage stabiliser would, as you rightly say, be a waste of power.

And can we clear up exactly what a 'buck converter' is, because if you go and buy one you will find it won't work as you might think. As I said earlier, GJ doesn't know what one is either.
A buck converter or step-down converter reduces voltage. For example, producing a 5V USB output from a 12V input.
A boost converter or step-up converter increases voltage. For example a 19V laptop supply from a 12V input.
A buck-boost converter or voltage stabiliser increases or decreases voltage as necessary, to produce the required output. For example a 12V (+/- 0.5V) supply for a TV, from an input between 11V and 15V.

A buck converter normally requires some 'headroom' voltage, so to output 12.0V it requires an input of at least 12.5V, often as much as 12.8V. So not much use if the battery voltage is 12.3V, which it often is.

 

[Peavy]

The EBL battery monitor unit seems to protect the battery from complete discharge but I can’t see a 12V voltage control role of the type being advocated.

Apologies, by "control" I thought you meant the ability to turn on, turn off or protect (battery monitor), not to filter the voltage.
In that case, I agree with you, and, as autorouter says the EBL doesn't do that.

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[Peavy]

This business or running our nominaly 12volt kit on a voltage anywhere from 11.5 to 14.5volts, has often made me think a stabilised supply would be better. However I thought one would use a single Buck Converter regulator for the all the 12volt kit, not fit different units for each item. My one concern is how much power they waste, how efficient are they? I suppose running nominaly 12volt kit on higher voltages mean they would consume more power and get hotter, so perhaps the Buck Converter losses are not so important. Finally how smooth us the output?

The stabilizer I installed for the Maxxfan has this specifications:
INPUT side:

• Nominal voltage: 12/24
• voltage range: 8-40
• efficiency: 90,8% (12V input)

OUTPUT side:

• voltage: 12 (I read constant 12,2V with my multimeter being 14V in the input)
• maximum rated current: 10A (Maxxfan uses 3A at 100% speed).
• voltage and load regulation: +-1%
• standby current: 54mA (at 12V input)

 

[ED O'DARAC]

I wouldn't assume the EBL includes voltage control. I could be wrong but it is not something I would expect. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable than me will be along shortly. Motorhome kit should have voltage tolerances that can cope so I don’t see it as a job the EBL should need to do.

Mine has OVP1 (Over Voltage Protection) attached to it. MaxxFan is very picky, but I suspect it is moisture that makes the MaxxFan Deluxe do funny things (I use mine on 'Air In' all night). I cleaned my pcb on the MaxxFan with circuit board spray cleaner and it corrected it immediately and it has lasted for 18 months and counting.

 

[Pausim]

Mine has OVP1 (Over Voltage Protection) attached to it. MaxxFan is very picky, but I suspect it is moisture that makes the MaxxFan Deluxe do funny things (I use mine on 'Air In' all night). I cleaned my pcb on the MaxxFan with circuit board spray cleaner and it corrected it immediately and it has lasted for 18 months and counting.

OVP on an EBL is a mains protection that cuts in at 265V, it is not going to help with the normal voltage fluctuations of the 12V side.

I don’t find the need to regulate the voltage on the 12V side because I buy kit that is designed to run on an automotive power supply e.g. an Avtex tv that comes with a car plug as well as a mains adapter.

 

[ED O'DARAC]

OVP on an EBL is a mains protection that cuts in at 265V, it is not going to help with the normal voltage fluctuations of the 12V side.

I don’t find the need to regulate the voltage on the 12V side because I buy kit that is designed to run on an automotive power supply e.g. an Avtex tv that comes with a car plug as well as a mains adapter.
Thanks for your informative response. Apuljack refer to the OVP as a 'slow-acting under and over voltage device'.
Yes, it cuts out to prevent a wild over voltage but, surely, it helps to regulate the input voltage to the transformer and thus, in turn it has a stabilisation effect upon the output. GIGO applies?

 

[Pausim]

ED O'DARAC I assume you are trying to quote and reply to my posting. Your reply appears to be part of my quoted post which is rather confusing.

No the the OVP will not regulate the battery output voltage.

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[ED O'DARAC]

ED O'DARAC I assume you are trying to quote and reply to my posting. Your reply appears to be part of my quoted post which is rather confusing.

No the the OVP will not regulate the battery output voltage.

So GIGO doesn't apply, and the input voltage on a transformer has no effect upon the output voltage?
Thanks for the information.

 

[Pausim]

So GIGO doesn't apply, and the input voltage on a transformer has no effect upon the output voltage?
Thanks for the information.

Not sure where GIGO (garbage in garbage out) comes into this. Anyway it doesn’t apply to the output voltage of a LiFePO4 battery which is what was erroneously claimed to be causing a problem in the video at #1.

 

[autorouter]

So GIGO doesn't apply, and the input voltage on a transformer has no effect upon the output voltage?
Thanks for the information.

The battery charger has been designed so that it will output exactly the voltage and amps that the battery needs at that point in the charging cycle. You can even set the voltage by changing the battery type setting. So a Gel will be charged at 14.4V, but an AGM will be charged at about 14.7V. The electronics compensates for the normal fluctuations in the mains input voltage. That should be the same for any 3-stage smart charger, including solar and B2B chargers.

 

[Raul]

I rang the UK importer for Maxxfan before I fitted a Maxxfan Deluxe to our van a few weeks ago, and they confirmed that the Maxxfan is still susceptible to over voltage and that an updated control board would likely be fitted to new Maxxfan's later in the year, so I fitted a voltage stabiliser to our Maxxfan.

That's interesting Paul. I had my maxxfan installed in 2019, and straight of the battery, no step down at all. Voltage is in region of 12.6v min to 14.2v max, mostly 14v max. The components on fan pcb from memory are rated for 15v, my battery will never see that voltage.

 

[Two on Tour]

That's interesting Paul. I had my maxxfan installed in 2019, and straight of the battery, no step down at all. Voltage is in region of 12.6v min to 14.2v max, mostly 14v max. The components on fan pcb from memory are rated for 15v, my battery will never see that voltage.

It's not a given that a Maxxfan Deluxe will fail with the higher voltages, but there are many accounts of the maxxfan deluxe fault of the green light flashing and beeping across the internet and Youtube.
Not wishing to take the chance of my maxxfan deluxe failing with the know over voltage problem, I opted to fit a voltage regulator to my Maxxfan deluxe before I installed the fan in the van, as its an easy fit on the bench and a faff if the fan is already fitted in the roof.

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[ianto999]

Apparently some Schaudt Ebl 227 units have OVP built in. How can I tell if mine has (on a 2024 Adria)
Separately, I noticed the ‘spare socket’? Do the wago units just attach directly…? Didn’t want to pull others out just before a trip, but it looks simple? Does each one have a fuse, and how do I find corresponding T one on the other side? (Manual is too technical for me). Would like to add a USB C pd 100w for potential starlink power near windscreen area.

 

[GrahamPye]

Is this a problem if the power comes via an EBL rather than directly from battery? I’m assuming that the EBL does some form of voltage control?

I strongly suspect that your assumption is incorrect. As far as 12V from the battery going to the "appliances" it just passes the voltage straight through. It will almost certainly manage the voltage from a solar panel, but that's about it.

 

[Pausim]

I strongly suspect that your assumption is incorrect. As far as 12V from the battery going to the "appliances" it just passes the voltage straight through. It will almost certainly manage the voltage from a solar panel, but that's about it.

Not come across an EBL with built in solar controller.

 

[Happy Jack]

Our Maxfan deluxe does funny things regularly.
Will have to get some circuit board cleaner.
Gadget John never does anything funny, or does he.
I only watch when I can't sleep, and never get past 2 minutes.
Happy Jack.

 

[Happy Jack]

Mind you, if he's making money on YT; he's having the last laugh.
Happy Jack.

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[Guigsy]

Mind you, if he's making money on YT; he's having the last laugh.
Happy Jack.

My understanding is that very few are making a living purely from YouTube anymore. You've got to have sponsors and a generous Patreon following. And/or sell a lot of merch. Several of that media companies that were backing the bigger channels have collapsed, which is why lots of familiar faces are appearing in new channels which they've set up themselves.

 

[Cheese Monster]

The battery charger has been designed so that it will output exactly the voltage and amps that the battery needs at that point in the charging cycle. You can even set the voltage by changing the battery type setting. So a Gel will be charged at 14.4V, but an AGM will be charged at about 14.7V. The electronics compensates for the normal fluctuations in the mains input voltage. That should be the same for any 3-stage smart charger, including solar and B2B chargers.

I've read about Constant Current and Constant Voltage, also Bulk, absorption, float and storage. Please explain to all how these fit in to your reply?

 

[DT]

My understanding is that very few are making a living purely from YouTube anymore. You've got to have sponsors and a generous Patreon following. And/or sell a lot of merch. Several of that media companies that were backing the bigger channels have collapsed, which is why lots of familiar faces are appearing in new channels which they've set up themselves.

All I can say is Bob E publishes his YT earnings and without much effort its £16k.

 

[GrahamPye]

Not come across an EBL with built in solar controller.

Assuming we're both using the same definition of an EBL - i.e. an Electrobloc that manages the van's electrics - then the one in my Pilote certainly includes a solar controller. Maybe not a very good one....

 

[autorouter]

Assuming we're both using the same definition of an EBL - i.e. an Electrobloc that manages the van's electrics - then the one in my Pilote certainly includes a solar controller. Maybe not a very good one....

What is the model number of the EBL?

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