Warranty Issue - Refused

[PaulAndSam]

Has anyone had a warranty issue refused for no good reason?

We have a body work issue which appeared no long after we had the MH but just thought it was a heat spot, we spoke to the dealers at the next 2 had checks and they did not have any idea why it was but after the last had check said we should take it up with the manufactures after our holidays which we did.

We have a McLouis Fusion which has now beed acquired by Auto Sleepers.

Auto Sleepers have now came back and said the suspension update to get it to 4T was not done correctly (done by Glide Rite who I believe did it correctly).

We have photo evidence of the lump before the suspension was carried out and Auto Sleepers have said we should be had it don ethen even though I reported it to our dealers.

I have to now send an email to Auto Sleepers (as the dealers does not know what to do).

How should I proceed, should I lay out me findings before or after seeking professional advice or seek it before emailing?

Paul And Sam

 

[Gromett]

It looks like it is sagging to me. The back is pulling down and causing the side to crumple at the weak spot above the door?

That's how it looks to me anyway. Bit hard to tell from the pictures.

The fact it is crumpling on the inside as well supports it in my opinion?

 

[Gromett]

Also, In the first image. There looks like there is a block of wood with an X on it on the far side? What is that?

 

[Lenny HB]

Not factually correct Lenny.

The buyer has a contract solely with the retailer, no contract exists with the manufacturer.

Quote:

The Consumer Rights Act 2015 is a guarantee for the consumer against poor workmanship and misrepresentation for a period of time during the life expectancy of that product, which should be no more than 6 years in the UK. The Consumer Rights Act 2015, Section 23:132 protects consumers in situations such as these.

I said that before it was known to be a manufacturing fault.

Also taking that line he who has the most expensive lawyers useally wins.

 

[Gromett]

Just in case it is not clear. The red circle middle right of the picture.

Also what is that bit of metal that looks bent at the top left in green circle?

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[funflair]

Looking at the photos of the chassis/suspension there are no chassis extensions under the garage floor so all the weight of the back of the van is relying on the structural integrity of the walls, and there is very little of that between the garage door cut out and the window cut out, manufacturing issue that the dealer will know about and is just taking advantage of the OP’s lack of knowledge (sorry PaulAndSam no offence meant)

I guess they are trying to say that the chassis has been updated without any thought to the body construction, not valid in my view but that might be their wriggle room, hopefully your dealer will confirm the problem was brought to their attention before the suspension upgrade and that would shut down that line of excuses.

 

[Ditcha]

Looking at the photos of the chassis/suspension there are no chassis extensions under the garage floor so all the weight of the back of the van is relying on the structural integrity of the walls, and there is very little of that between the garage door cut out and the window cut out, manufacturing issue that the dealer will know about and is just taking advantage of the OP’s lack of knowledge (sorry PaulAndSam no offence meant)

I guess they are trying to say that the chassis has been updated without any thought to the body construction, not valid in my view but that might be their wriggle room, hopefully your dealer will confirm the problem was brought to their attention before the suspension upgrade and that would shut down that line of excuses.

Not the best photos but is this not the chassis extension for the garage. Have you any photos for the underside garage area.

 

[funflair]

Not the best photos but is this not the chassis extension for the garage. Have you any photos for the underside garage area.

View attachment 1027832

OK possibly, I’m just on my phone screen and didn’t see the white bit, I thought it all stopped at the rear spring hanger, mind you I might have been looking for something more substantial

 

[Northernraider]

Never had any issues with water inside then van.

You wouldn't if it's leaking between the closed cell foam and the outer skin ...it will make its way out around the garage door .

Definitely looks like delamination to me too

 

[Northernraider]

OK possibly, I’m just on my phone screen and didn’t see the white bit, I thought it all stopped at the rear spring hanger, mind you I might have been looking for something more substantial

I was just going to say zoom in and there's ally chassis rail under garage . Like alko extensions .

I can't see how it can be body movement due to suspension I'd have expected there to be crumpled bits in other areas than where it is.

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[Northernraider]

Just in case it is not clear. The red circle middle right of the picture.

Also what is that bit of metal that looks bent at the top left in green circle?

View attachment 1027771

The red circle is the handbrake mechanism.

The green is unclear but looks like brake pipe or cables to me

 

[Northernraider]

I would hazard a guess that the weight of the door hinge has pulled on the bodywork causing the de lamination, if its starting on the otherside as well it would point to a lack of internal strength, nothing to do with the suspension at all

I'm not convinced the door is heavy enough to have done that .. especially as there's 3 hinges on the door and the door frame is a separate unit from the body.

It's a weird one for sure

 

[Gromett]

The red circle is the handbrake mechanism.

The green is unclear but looks like brake pipe or cables to me

No not that. Look below in the picture. There appears to be a wooden block with an X on it.

The bit that is bent does not look like a pipe or a cable to me. I think we must be looking at different things. The piece I am looking at looks like a flat bit of metal that has been twisted.

 

[Northernraider]

No not that. Look below in the picture. There appears to be a wooden block with an X on it.

The bit that is bent does not look like a pipe or a cable to me. I think we must be looking at different things. The piece I am looking at looks like a flat bit of metal that has been twisted.

Ahh I see the x you're talking about...i don't think it's wood though. Possibly a body to chassis mounting.

The bit in the green circle I'm not sure what part you mean but there's a u shaped channel there with a pipe or cable going up the middle of it.

Can you point an arrow to it ?

 

[Jo-jo]

You say you spoke to the dealers at the first hab check. Did you back it up with an email exchange so you have a record of notifying them in writing?

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[Longjohn]

I have read posts regarding air suspension installations and there does seem to be some issues where the air bag is supporting the chassis and there it is no strengthening of the chassis at this point.
If you look where the leaf springs attach you will see the chassis has strengthening plates the issues have been the chassis bend and eventually crack.
I'm not saying it is the issue but its one worth considering when fitting the airbags.

 

[Gromett]

The bit in the green circle I'm not sure what part you mean but there's a u shaped channel there with a pipe or cable going up the middle of it.

Can you point an arrow to it ?

Does this help? This gives the location and an outline.

Probably want to go back to the original image on page 1 to see what I mean.

 

[Northernraider]

Does this help? This gives the location and an outline.

Probably want to go back to the original image on page 1 to see what I mean.

View attachment 1027911

Yes that's the bit I thought you meant. It's a piece of box section chassis.. and it has a pipe , a cable or a bent round metal bar bracket hooked through it. ... I can't see any flat twisted bit.

 

[AdrianChen]

Here are some photos, the 2 suspension ones show before and after. The suspension was carried out in Dec 2022, the photo in the field where you can see the bump was taken in Apr 2022, 8 months before the suspension was uprated.





View attachment 1027700

Is that a hairline crack in the trim surrounding the door, just under the central bulge? If it is also part of the door frame I wonder if it is being interpreted by the dealer as the door being slammed back ie caught by the wind or something? Is there something that stops the door opening too wide?

Any pics of the inside of the door frame when the door is open?

The distortion caused to the inner and outer skins might have compromised the lower window seal I guess.

To me its difficult to say which way round it is ie water ingress causing the distortion (which would be a bubble rather than ripple? but I bow to Lenny's experience), or distortion caused by a wrench.

Don't know the construction of these vans so the above may be rubbish!

 

[Lenny HB]

Is that a hairline crack in the trim surrounding the door, just under the central bulge? If it is also part of the door frame I wonder if it is being interpreted by the dealer as the door being slammed back ie caught by the wind or something? Is there something that stops the door opening too wide?

Any pics of the inside of the door frame when the door is open?

The distortion caused to the inner and outer skins might have compromised the lower window seal I guess.

To me its difficult to say which way round it is ie water ingress causing the distortion (which would be a bubble rather than ripple? but I bow to Lenny's experience), or distortion caused by a wrench.

Don't know the construction of these vans so the above may be rubbish!

Whatever caused it's not right and they should be sorting it out.

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[Phill D]

I have read posts regarding air suspension installations and there does seem to be some issues where the air bag is supporting the chassis and there it is no strengthening of the chassis at this point.
If you look where the leaf springs attach you will see the chassis has strengthening plates the issues have been the chassis bend and eventually crack.
I'm not saying it is the issue but its one worth considering when fitting the airbags.

Air bags are fitted in place of the bump stops which are infinitely more harsh to the chassis than the air bag.
Also , the air bags tend to be around 2 to 4 bar max pressure so unlikely to be sufficient pressures to damage a chassis.

Not a dig at you but whoever provided that theory has either a complete different setup or it is completely wrong.

Air assist is softer on the springs and chassis than the standard setup.

 

[Northernraider]

Personally I'm reluctant to think that damage has anything to do with the chassis or suspension... I could be completely wrong of course but I think there would be other signs on the bodywork ...

Be interesting to find out the cause when it's finally investigated. I feel for the op though as I think he has a fight on his hands and quite a large problem to sort.


2 full side panels I'd imagine to sort that cosmetically.

 

[wildcampers69]

Im not accusing here but i have seen this before when a friend overloaded their garage, the carry capacity of the aluminium rail extensions will be low due to deflection and size and are probably not up to the job. Proving that will be virtually impossible and not a fight i would take to court, hope you have some success with the claim but i would think if they stick to their refusal you are on a hard road, best of luck.

 

[AdrianChen]

Whatever caused it's not right and they should be sorting it out.

Sure - its unacceptable. Either it's not strong enough for normal use, or frequent flexing compromised the core bond and window seal. Need to know especially if there are signs the other side is going the same way...

Would be great to get a moisture meter on that inside bulge, just in case it is causing additional damage.

Managing the potential for reputational damage is the only real consideration for some of these guys it seems to take precedence over doing the right thing.....

 

[Orion]

Personally I'm reluctant to think that damage has anything to do with the chassis or suspension... I could be completely wrong of course but I think there would be other signs on the bodywork ...

I agree. The OP stated further up the thread that the ‘bulge’ was there prior to having the rear air installed, so that must rule it out anyway.

Looks to me as if the dealer and manufacturer are stalling in the hope the problem goes away before the warranty until the warranty runs out. Time to get everything in writing and start leaning on them for a solution I think.

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[Solly24]

I said that before it was known to be a manufacturing fault.

Also taking that line he who has the most expensive lawyers useally wins.

As a matter of interest, in the last couple of years I have had disputes with Argos, Neff and a motorhome add ons supplier who I won’t name as he eventually accepted my assertion that his trading conditions were in breach of the CRA 1915.
Argos capitulated within 24 hours and sent someone to collect the item from my home to save me a trip to their shop.
The CEO of Neff ignored my complaint, he must have regretted that stance as they had to withdraw the item from sale.
The final one thanked me for bringing to his notice what was essentially illegal trading conditions and rewrote them.

All the above handled solely by me.

I like to think that I can bring to the notice of people that they have legal rights in excess of ‘warranties’ as often they assume that a warranty is a be all and end all whereas in fact it is nothing of the kind.
The cynic in me does believe that sometimes retailers/suppliers deliberately give the impression that the warranty is the limit of a customer’s rights in the event of a problem.

If a little man, like me , puts up a fight backed up with knowledge of the law he can win against the ‘big lads’.

 

[Orion]

If a little man, like me , puts up a fight backed up with knowledge of the law he can win against the ‘big lads’.

Ain’t that the truth!

“Knowledge itself is power”. Sir Francis Bacon, Meditationes Sacrae (1597).

And I’ll add that with even the slightest pushback they tend to radically reconsider their position.

 

[B+W vanman]

As a matter of interest, in the last couple of years I have had disputes with Argos, Neff and a motorhome add ons supplier who I won’t name as he eventually accepted my assertion that his trading conditions were in breach of the CRA 1915.
Argos capitulated within 24 hours and sent someone to collect the item from my home to save me a trip to their shop.
The CEO of Neff ignored my complaint, he must have regretted that stance as they had to withdraw the item from sale.
The final one thanked me for bringing to his notice what was essentially illegal trading conditions and rewrote them.

All the above handled solely by me.

I like to think that I can bring to the notice of people that they have legal rights in excess of ‘warranties’ as often they assume that a warranty is a be all and end all whereas in fact it is nothing of the kind.
The cynic in me does believe that sometimes retailers/suppliers deliberately give the impression that the warranty is the limit of a customer’s rights in the event of a problem.

If a little man, like me , puts up a fight backed up with knowledge of the law he can win against the ‘big lads’.

Out of interest, and as a respecter of your expertise as “consumer champion” Solly24, can I ask if you will be adhering to the provisions of the Chausson warranties regarding “annual certified dealer/workshop inspection”?
“At CHAUSSON, all our vehicles, in every line, whatever the carrier, whatever the price, feature a two-year warranty on parts and labor.

Work on the living compartment can be done either at your CHAUSSON dealer’s workshop or at another CHAUSSON certified workshop, depending on availability.

Garages certified by the car manufacturers who manage the warranties take care of carrier maintenance.

In addition, CHAUSSON overcabs and low profilers are built to last: their water-tightness is guaranteed for 7 years (with a yearly check-up by a certified member of the CHAUSSON network).”
Cheers

 

[Solly24]

Out of interest, and as a respecter of your expertise as “consumer champion” Solly24, can I ask if you will be adhering to the provisions of the Chausson warranties regarding “annual certified dealer/workshop inspection”?
“At CHAUSSON, all our vehicles, in every line, whatever the carrier, whatever the price, feature a two-year warranty on parts and labor.

Work on the living compartment can be done either at your CHAUSSON dealer’s workshop or at another CHAUSSON certified workshop, depending on availability.

Garages certified by the car manufacturers who manage the warranties take care of carrier maintenance.

In addition, CHAUSSON overcabs and low profilers are built to last: their water-tightness is guaranteed for 7 years (with a yearly check-up by a certified member of the CHAUSSON network).”
Cheers

Oh most definitely. I don’t go out of my way to engage in these little battles, although I have to admit that I do enjoy the challenge . I adhere to habitation/servicing requirements strictly so that I don’t knowingly expose myself to difficulties.

 

[Longjohn]

Air bags are fitted in place of the bump stops which are infinitely more harsh to the chassis than the air bag.
Also , the air bags tend to be around 2 to 4 bar max pressure so unlikely to be sufficient pressures to damage a chassis.

Not a dig at you but whoever provided that theory has either a complete different setup or it is completely wrong.

Air assist is softer on the springs and chassis than the standard setup.

There's lots of info on damaged caused on the internet, I came across it whilst searching for the best air suspension to go with just thought it worth while advising people that incorrect use of the air bags will cause damage.
I'm unsure and no expert.

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[Gromett]

Air bags are fitted in place of the bump stops which are infinitely more harsh to the chassis than the air bag.
Also , the air bags tend to be around 2 to 4 bar max pressure so unlikely to be sufficient pressures to damage a chassis.

Not a dig at you but whoever provided that theory has either a complete different setup or it is completely wrong.

Air assist is softer on the springs and chassis than the standard setup.

Just a thought / random question. If the air bag is fully deflated. And no bump stop, could the chassis hit lower and harder when going over a bump?

Probably not applicable here, but I am curious.