Vibration at 30 - 50 mph - HELP (1 Viewer)

[Ianbenny]

I have already posted on the tech section about this but haven't solved it yet. Need some technical experience from you guys.

2014 Peugeot Boxer - had the rear chassis and spring bushes changed due to squealing. Also had the tyres changed for the MOT
Chassis bushes are a new design, not the ones below, without a central hollow pin. They must be wider as they supply 2 oversize washers to fit to the springs.

Bad vibration at 30mph to 50mph - levels out at 60mph due to the higher frequency but still there. This van drove really nicely before this.

Thought it was the tyres, so had another set fitted - convinced myself it was better but its not. Its unpleasant to drive and its starting to shake the marking light bolts loose. I have done about 150 miles since but hate driving it now.

So, getting desperate as we were going to France at end of August for the first time in years. It maybe our last trip abroad as wife is unwell.

Had it in for a oil/filter service at a closer garage and he noticed that the anti roll bar had moved to one side, i.e it was not evenly located. Would this cause a problem?

I wonder if the vibration had caused this to slide across.

As it was OK before the work (except the squeal ) I think its resonance from the suspension, my next steps is to try and put it back to the position it was in previously and belt and braces approach:

1. Replacing the new bushes with the older style with a central pin. This allows the shackles to move more easily it needed
2. Replace the springs - this ensures that its not the new spring bushes that were put in
3. Change the shock absorbers just for good measure.

Could it be wheel related or bearing/hubs? Wheels have been balanced to death and again were fine when it went in.

Does this sound feasible. I know it will cost but I have little option but to throw some money at it, as I cant afford another van, and I cant sell it like it is.

The garage that did the work is going to have another look and put the old style bushes in, but they are always busy and it usually takes 3 weeks to get a slot so I am running out of time for my holidays

Any other ideas or thought would be appreciated as I am getting desperate.

 

[Ianbenny]

Hi you do not say if the vibration is felt when you are accelerating and reduces when you ease off if so it’s a classic case of a worn or dry pot joint ( that the inner joint of the drive shaft)

It increases with the speed of the van.

 

[Ianbenny]

So, my mate had a ride out in the van this morning, and had a look underneath, and in the engine bay and around the front wheels.

His conclusion is its from the front end. I have been looking for a cause at the rear as this is where the work was done

He said that he can feel it through the seat like I can, but also he can feel it through the pedals when braking in neutral. There is a slight vibration from the steering wheel as well.

As your suggestions, he looked at the top engine mounts and said they look OK, but said the lower rear one needs to be checked on a ramp.

He said its definitely rotationally induced so check all the rotating stuff on the front end.

My money is on an inner cv joint . When the vehicle was originally raised the suspension hanging has allowed the inner cv joint to slide out into the gaiter & has not reseated correctly

He also said that when the rear has been raised to do the bushes, this can put stress on the front end sometimes and cause a problem.

I will get the garage to check the cv joints and anything else they want to do.

Thanks everyone and open to other suggestions

 

[ChrisL]

So, my mate had a ride out in the van this morning, and had a look underneath, and in the engine bay and around the front wheels.

His conclusion is its from the front end. I have been looking for a cause at the rear as this is where the work was done

He said that he can feel it through the seat like I can, but also he can feel it through the pedals when braking in neutral. There is a slight vibration from the steering wheel as well.

As your suggestions, he looked at the top engine mounts and said they look OK, but said the lower rear one needs to be checked on a ramp.

He said its definitely rotationally induced so check all the rotating stuff on the front end.


He also said that when the rear has been raised to do the bushes, this can put stress on the front end sometimes and cause a problem.

I will get the garage to check the cv joints and anything else they want to do.

Thanks everyone and open to other suggestions

To check the CV joints you can find a steep hill select a low gear and descend under engine braking only, if they are shot they are likely to make a lot of noise. Obviously use your brakes if it starts to run away though

 

[Tony50]

Having spent 50 years in the motor trade I think it’s highly unlikely to have anything to do with the springs/ suspension, the most they will do will be out of alignment so the van would crab,
If it’s vibrating at certain speeds it has to be rotational, so back to wheels/tyres/hub and possibly bearing, also check the runout of the driveshafts, good luck,

Agreed, nothing to do with new parts on suspension/ springs, take it to a garage that deals with your make of vehicle. Bite the bullet it could be cheaper in the long run.

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[Tony50]

To check the CV joints you can find a steep hill select a low gear and descend under engine braking only, if they are shot they are likely to make a lot of noise. Obviously use your brakes if it starts to run away though

Outer joint wear faulty can be checked by selecting a area where you can drive it slowly accelerate slowly not need to drive fast just a few mph on full lock on one side and then full lock on other side if faulty it will go click click click quite loudly ( do not hold on full lock for many seconds or you risk damaging power steering pump,) Inner joints you really need a pit or platform ramp ( I'm assuming it's not automatic) no need to start engine put in 1st gear hand brake off and rock vehicle back and forth you will soon see if joint is faulty/ collapsed it will jump/ wobble or could say move out / go slightly up and down as you rock it ,a bit of a job to explain, but a decent garage will know how to test.

 

[Ianbenny]

Agreed, nothing to do with new parts on suspension/ springs, take it to a garage that deals with your make of vehicle. Bite the bullet it could be cheaper in the long run.

Its finding one locally - they dont seem to want to do these jobs.
Its not a question of how much it costs, I just need it sorted for my holidays

 

[Mikeamapola]

I had a vibration problem on a front wheel drive car years ago. The vibration only occurred in a particular range of speeds. Tried wheel balancing but no difference. Over time the vibration got worse. Ultimately the vibration turned out to be due to a worn cv joint.
This sort of problem can often only be solved by a process of elimination.

I was just about to suggest a CV joint as it happened to me some time back in France. They can appear to fine one moment and the next moment they are gone bad and cause vibration at about 35-40 mph

 

[Raybe]

A couple of Q's to fully understand the problem.
When driving in the speed range when it's at its worst, do any of the following actions make any difference and how so?
Acceleration?
Steady cruising?
Deceleration/coasting?
Steady gentle braking?
Other possibilities include:
Engine/gearbox mounts
Engine misfire/faulty injector
Dual mass flywheel if manual gearbox
misaligned brake disc/drum if they were removed during original work.

 

[Ianbenny]

A couple of Q's to fully understand the problem.
When driving in the speed range when it's at its worst, do any of the following actions make any difference and how so?
Acceleration?
Steady cruising?
Deceleration/coasting?
Steady gentle braking?
Other possibilities include:
Engine/gearbox mounts
Engine misfire/faulty injector
Dual mass flywheel if manual gearbox
misaligned brake disc/drum if they were removed during original work.

Thanks Raybe
Its noticeable at 25-30mph but gets worse until 40mph. Then as the speed increases the vibration increases but the amplitude is less if you understand.
It can be felt through the seat, the van vibrates rather than the normal rattles, and less so through the steering wheel, but it is there. My friend says he can feel it through the brake pedal on deceleration, even in neutral, on his test drive yesterday.

I feel its getting worse. Its certainly something to do with speed of rotation somewhere on the vehicle

Acceleration - but not as you mean. It increases with speed, so under acceleration in 2nd or 3rd gear its not noticeable until the speed increases
Steady Cruising - YES
Deceleration/Coasting - YES
Steady Gentle Braking - YES

Top mounts look OK - he couldnt get to see the rear underneath one yesterday
Engine runs well - no issues
Dual Mass Flywheel - Possibility, but I thought that was a progressive problem - van has 40k miles
Misaligned brake drum etc - possible as the rear nearside is binding slightly but were not removed during the work

Previously I have asked the garage about driveshafts, brake discs/drums, shocks, wheel bearings etc.

Called in today and asked them to look at the front end. But he said he has been thinking about this and he was going to slacken the rear shackle nuts slightly to allow more play to see if it is binding or a stiffness thats causing the issue, as these are the things that were changed. It drove perfectly when I drove it it.

If it is the front end drivetrain then its a coincidence which I don't often believe in

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[Ianbenny]

I was just about to suggest a CV joint as it happened to me some time back in France. They can appear to fine one moment and the next moment they are gone bad and cause vibration at about 35-40 mph

This could be it - as the symptoms are similar and the speed range is spot on.
Is it a harsh vibration? and does it seem better at 50-60mph although still there - bit like an orbital sander the faster the van goes

 

[jpgb43]

I would get someone to follow you at the speed you get maximum vibration and see if they can detect any obvious unusual movement on your wheels, to pin point the wheel or axle that causing it,
Their are some companies that will dynamically balance the wheels on the van which should show up a buckled wheel if you have one,
I have also had this with a distorted tyre, I know you have said they have been replaced but a jack up and using a straight edge across the tyre width with a spin would discount that anomaly,

 

[Tony50]

Thanks Raybe
Its noticeable at 25-30mph but gets worse until 40mph. Then as the speed increases the vibration increases but the amplitude is less if you understand.
It can be felt through the seat, the van vibrates rather than the normal rattles, and less so through the steering wheel, but it is there. My friend says he can feel it through the brake pedal on deceleration, even in neutral, on his test drive yesterday.

I feel its getting worse. Its certainly something to do with speed of rotation somewhere on the vehicle

Acceleration - but not as you mean. It increases with speed, so under acceleration in 2nd or 3rd gear its not noticeable until the speed increases
Steady Cruising - YES
Deceleration/Coasting - YES
Steady Gentle Braking - YES

Top mounts look OK - he couldnt get to see the rear underneath one yesterday
Engine runs well - no issues
Dual Mass Flywheel - Possibility, but I thought that was a progressive problem - van has 40k miles
Misaligned brake drum etc - possible as the rear nearside is binding slightly but were not removed during the work

Previously I have asked the garage about driveshafts, brake discs/drums, shocks, wheel bearings etc.

Called in today and asked them to look at the front end. But he said he has been thinking about this and he was going to slacken the rear shackle nuts slightly to allow more play to see if it is binding or a stiffness thats causing the issue, as these are the things that were changed. It drove perfectly when I drove it it.

If it is the front end drivetrain then its a coincidence which I don't often believe in

If you can feel it through your seat rather than a steering your problem is at the rear I'm 99% sure, I have tested 100's maybe 1000's of cars, in my life and what you are saying seems logical it's the rear.

 

[Ianbenny]

If you can feel it through your seat rather than a steering your problem is at the rear I'm 99% sure, I have tested 100's maybe 1000's of cars, in my life and what you are saying seems logical it's the rear.

Well, that is the most logical to me too. Checking the wheels with the spare tomorrow just for completeness, then the original garage is getting it next Monday
I my years in engineering, the first question was always - what has been changed?

 

[Dochie]

Handbrake shoes/pads ??

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[Tony50]

Well, that is the most logical to me too. Checking the wheels with the spare tomorrow just for completeness, then the original garage is getting it next Monday
I my years in engineering, the first question was always - what has been changed?

Can't say I'm favour with these slow motion wheel balancing, year ago we either used a fairly fast wheels balancer or if there was no drive to the wheels we jacked up. the vehicle and,we slotted a balancer against the tyre and spun it up for the machine to calculate where the weights went.

 

[Jofang]

I've passed vehicles on the motorway that had rear wheel bounce that looked as if they were going fast on a cobbled road. On one such van I could see the shock absorber mounted only at the top end with the bottom end swinging free. Suggest you remove & inspect shocks on both sides.