UK Motorhome parking Camping-Car Park may be of interest?

[jongood]

I fully appreciate the attraction. Most of our camping over the years has been at C&CC rallies/THSs. I realise that their temporary nature makes them different but the principle of just traveling round and not have to book is similar.
I have never been against aires in the UK (for instance publishing this article several years ago) but they have been and will only be created where the land owners see a positive result. Far too many calls for aires in the UK are based on inaccurate claims.

Imo those reading your comments should take your lack of experience into consideration

 

[Lenny HB]

Imo those reading your comments should take your lack of experience into consideration

There is no substitute for actually using Aires & Stellplatz a totally different experience to traveling in the UK.

 

[chaser]

There is no substitute for actually using Aires & Stellplatz a totally different experience to traveling in the UK.

What I have said for years, the total freedom to park anywhere is totally alien to here, until we went we just didn't have a clue we could just park up with no booking or anything, we had all the camp books and stuff, like here, but the thing that really got us into it was France passion, and if anyone would like to try the French way but a bit apprehensive of full blown Aires I would fully recommend you get the book and go for it, this is similar to Aires as the stops are free but on farms and things where they expect you to buy stuff off them but totally secure.
You will only need to to do this one year and you will discover a new world.

 

[chaser]

Sorry should have added the link

France Passion: Great stopovers with your motorhome in France

France Passion - A guide to friendly and gastronomic motorhome stopovers in the French countryside with farmers and winegrowers – agri-tourism and wine tourism

www.france-passion.com

 

[bigtwin]

This is very true, and what I always tried to get across , until you have been and experienced the system in France there is no way you can understand it no matter how many government papers you have read.
But on the other hand I still don't see how a CCP system is going to get us anywhere near it.

Baby steps!

Just a thought as it’s always being said about Aires in France and how good it is and how its welcome over there. Well the home owners over there pay about a 1/3 of the council tax that a uk home owner pays , how about reducing council tax to the same amount here and the Aires could make up the short fall. It would then be in comparison to France. Just a thought.

Flipping that around, one might conclude if they can provide (invest in?) aires, why can’t we?

Again using your rationale, wouldn’t that be a win win for all concerned?

Ian

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[MC 55 FUN]

The French social security & tax system differs from the U.K.'s.

Taxes in France: a complete guide for expats | Expatica

France’s tax system can be tricky to navigate but,as long as you do your research and seek expert advice when needed, you can avoid most major pitfalls.

www.expatica.com

.

 

[Okeyjon]

Must stick up for the French Aires system, have used Aires in France for many years, some good some bad, but generally good, found some very interesting places following the Aires book each year.
Time this country learned that Aires bring money to the local businesses in most cases.
We will use them whenever we find ourselves somewhere we want to stay overnight.

 

[jongood]

Is it time to put up a poll into who would use CCP aires and who wouldnt?

 

[Dorset Diver]

Yes.

 

[GJH]

Imo those reading your comments should take your lack of experience into consideration

I don't have a problem with that - but it would make a change if they then made constructive suggestions as a result as to what practical steps need to be taken to achieve aires in the UK.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[GJH]

Is it time to put up a poll into who would use CCP aires and who wouldnt?

It would be interesting to include a question for those who say they would, asking how many of them would play an active role in making a case for individual aires in specific places.

 

[GJH]

There is no substitute for actually using Aires & Stellplatz a totally different experience to traveling in the UK.

I am sure it is but the legislative structure surrounding camping is also totally different.
Saying something like "If they can have it why can't we?" is a waste of time when the approach has to be "How do we achieve this within the structure that exists in the UK?".

 

[Reallyretired]

We would certainly use them, as we already do in France. We find them a good compromise as I like aires but swmbo likes a site. This can give the best of both worlds as many CCPs are previous municipal sites where they just close the sanitaires and reduce the price. That way we aren't paying for things we don't use.

 

[jongood]

I don't have a problem with that - but it would make a change if they then made constructive suggestions as a result as to what practical steps need to be taken to achieve aires in the UK.

I can see why you say that and I think you ve got a good point. But I also think that more people would feel inclined to contribute if there was less chance of immediately being shot down.

 

[Speve]

It would be interesting to include a question for those who say they would, asking how many of them would play an active role in making a case for individual aires in specific places.

Well there are over 11000 members of CAMpRA on their group who are doing just that writing letters to LAs ,private companies and land owners.
This one such letter.
These are emails between myself and West Suffolk Council about parking at Ram Meadow

Good Afternoon Jacqui,

Thank you for your email, I can only apologise it seems that your original email was never received which is why no reply was received.

Please see below a response to each of your questions:

1. Are they popular and used regularly? - The bays which we have across west Suffolk are fairly popular, they are quite often used within the car parks and we receive a few email enquiries about overnight parking.

2. Do you think the occupants as tourists to Bury St Edmunds bring revenue into the local economy? I would imagine so but without speaking to the tourists would be unable to confirm.

3. Do you have any issues with littering by the occupants of the motorhomes? Not that I am aware off.

4. Do any local residents have cause to complain? I have not received any complaints within the last 5 months, this is when I joined the business so would be unable to comment beyond that.

5. Roughly how much revenue do you think the bays bring in for parking charges? – This is not something we can confirm as when a parking ticket is purchased from the machine we do not know whether it’s a motorhome, car etc as it is the same charge.


My reply to the above:

Dear *******

Thank you for your reply.

I’ve looked at the Ram Meadow current car park charges which are £3.30 to park 24 hours. There are 5 bays, if every one was occupied 365 days per year that would bean income of £6,022. That probably wouldn’t happen but even if only 1 was occupied it’s still £1204 per year. Motorhomers tend to travel all year round and are not just confined to the summer months. If a motorhome Service Point was installed to include a fresh water tap and a chemical disposal point, motorhome users have indicated they would be willing to pay up to £10 for this facility. There are 250,000 registered motorhomes in UK and if this type of facility was introduced just into Ram Meadow the income for an occupancy rate of 1 motorhome per night for the whole year would be £3,650 if you add in the average spend in the locality, eating out/shopping in local shops of £60 per night that increases to £25,550 that is just for one motorhome, in an ideal world all 5 bays are occupied 365 nights per year you are looking at £127,750, that is a lot of untapped income that Bury St Edmunds alone is missing, if this facility were to be introduced at more car parks in the district it could add some much needed income into the local economy.

I realise that you are not in any position to further this cause but I would really appreciate if you could pass my email to the decision makers in West Suffolk Council in parking and tourism or provide me with their email addresses so that I may contact them directly.

Kind Regards

Jacqui Loveridge

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[ToBoldlyGo]

But they are dead in the water. Deader than a dead thing that's really moribund. Many 'certificated' campsites don't even have the facilities such as black water disposal that basic aires do. I think a commercial company set on creating paying aires in the UK will be a great start.

Don't like them in France so don't see why we should welcome them here.
If they get a foothold , Aires in UK will be totally dead in the water.

 

[Ivory55]

Baby steps!



Flipping that around, one might conclude if they can provide (invest in?) aires, why can’t we?

Again using your rationale, wouldn’t that be a win win for all concerned?

Ian

Give me the council tax reductions first and see how it goes. Like I said I trust nobody, politicians lies don’t interest me.

 

[GJH]

I can see why you say that and I think you ve got a good point. But I also think that more people would feel inclined to contribute if there was less chance of immediately being shot down.

In my experience people get shot down (more accurately are corrected) because they start from a lack of conception of facts.

 

[GJH]

Well there are over 11000 members of CAMpRA on their group who are doing just that writing letters to LAs ,private companies and land owners.
This one such letter.
These are emails between myself and West Suffolk Council about parking at Ram Meadow

Good Afternoon Jacqui,

Thank you for your email, I can only apologise it seems that your original email was never received which is why no reply was received.

Please see below a response to each of your questions:

1. Are they popular and used regularly? - The bays which we have across west Suffolk are fairly popular, they are quite often used within the car parks and we receive a few email enquiries about overnight parking.

2. Do you think the occupants as tourists to Bury St Edmunds bring revenue into the local economy? I would imagine so but without speaking to the tourists would be unable to confirm.

3. Do you have any issues with littering by the occupants of the motorhomes? Not that I am aware off.

4. Do any local residents have cause to complain? I have not received any complaints within the last 5 months, this is when I joined the business so would be unable to comment beyond that.

5. Roughly how much revenue do you think the bays bring in for parking charges? – This is not something we can confirm as when a parking ticket is purchased from the machine we do not know whether it’s a motorhome, car etc as it is the same charge.


My reply to the above:

Dear *******

Thank you for your reply.

I’ve looked at the Ram Meadow current car park charges which are £3.30 to park 24 hours. There are 5 bays, if every one was occupied 365 days per year that would bean income of £6,022. That probably wouldn’t happen but even if only 1 was occupied it’s still £1204 per year. Motorhomers tend to travel all year round and are not just confined to the summer months. If a motorhome Service Point was installed to include a fresh water tap and a chemical disposal point, motorhome users have indicated they would be willing to pay up to £10 for this facility. There are 250,000 registered motorhomes in UK and if this type of facility was introduced just into Ram Meadow the income for an occupancy rate of 1 motorhome per night for the whole year would be £3,650 if you add in the average spend in the locality, eating out/shopping in local shops of £60 per night that increases to £25,550 that is just for one motorhome, in an ideal world all 5 bays are occupied 365 nights per year you are looking at £127,750, that is a lot of untapped income that Bury St Edmunds alone is missing, if this facility were to be introduced at more car parks in the district it could add some much needed income into the local economy.

I realise that you are not in any position to further this cause but I would really appreciate if you could pass my email to the decision makers in West Suffolk Council in parking and tourism or provide me with their email addresses so that I may contact them directly.

Kind Regards

Jacqui Loveridge

I've written many such myself and it would be great to think that 11000 members of CAMpRA are actively undertaking similar correspondence. It would be interesting to see some stats on their web site of the numbers of such conversations and their outcomes.

 

[jongood]

In my experience people get shot down (more accurately are corrected) because they start from a lack of conception of facts.

The main fact is that many of us consider the legislation is outdated and needs changing, previous efforts have failed so I can't see the problem with somebody taking a different approach. In fact the more people who try the better chance we ve got.

This post has made me realise that even though I ve used my card quite a few times I never have registered it, so in communication with the helpful lady at CCP I've included a link to this thread, hopefully they will comment.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[GJH]

The main fact is that many of us consider the legislation is outdated and needs changing, previous efforts have failed so I can't see the problem with somebody taking a different approach. In fact the more people who try the better chance we ve got.

This post has made me realise that even though I ve used my card quite a few times I never have registered it, so in communication with the helpful lady at CCP I've included a link to this thread, hopefully they will comment.

Fine, if people consider the legislation outdated then they have every right to do something about it. Take, for instance, the interpretation of whether CLs/CSs were open to use by non-members which I successfully argued for (https://www.gjh.me.uk/cls.htm). However, the fact is that the legislation has been updated several times since 1960 and parliament obviously feels that it is fit for purpose so any arguments put forward will have to be properly argued with strong evidence that change is appropriate.
In the meantime, progress has to take place within the current legal framework no matter how many people make representations.

 

[Northernraider]

Think what their Aires would do - not just for us but to encourage Europeans used to Aires coming here...

Ssshhhhh Brits don't want Europeans coming here

 

[Clipgate]

It's all about others doing it for us, from camping days to motorhome days I have always been self reliant. Unfortunately with the advent of the herd mentality that pervades our whole society and conformity my ethos is seen as a threat.

 

[Barclaybasher]

When the Caravan Act came about MHs had no proper toilet or shower - at best an Elsan 'bucket' - same for caravans so both needed sites.

Vehicles have moved on in 60 years and it's time for the law to change.

Good luck to the CCP and anyone else trying to make changes - I wrote to the Minister of Transport a couple of years ago myself - got a reply, still waiting for the changes....

 

[PeteH]

Another thing thst might come of Camping Carpark interest is that the Clubs might now look at providing what we need at competetive prices..

The "Clubs" are not interested. they, being run on behalf of, not by members who vote at AGM`s. are still the majority Caravanners. and for them there is NO "want" to use such facilities, they have a different Mind Set.

You are quite right Graham inertia and poor management isn't just in the public sector it seems to be so in many other large organisations.

One of the problems for all are 'targets', particularly financial.

Accountants see a way of 'saving' money without seeing how services are affected.

Imagine an accountant takes over a football club just relegated from the Premier League -

How can we now pay high wages?

The players (high wage earners) are worth millions....

Save money and cash in the players............. brilliant !

4 years later the club is out of the football league..........

Before anyone says anything - yes the league has a 'Golden Parachute' now for relegated clubs

Just a simplified example of accountants 'thinking' not knowing the 'business' they are in.............

As someone with 2 "bean counters" in the family, I know exactly where you are coming from!!. The "bottom" line is always, save money. Take unemployment, remove a small subsidy which keeps a business going, put thousands on the dole, the financial cost and Social Costs are picked up by the taxpayer?. And are far in excess of the subsidy, but all the bean counters can see IS the subsidy!.

How is a private company investing money in uk affecting your tax bill?

It would be nicer to see a British company doing it though?. Where are the UK "entrepreneurs"?

But they are dead in the water. Deader than a dead thing that's really moribund. Many 'certificated' campsites don't even have the facilities such as black water disposal that basic aires do. I think a commercial company set on creating paying aires in the UK will be a great start.

My understanding is that any C-S or C-L has to provide a dumping point? Or it wont get a certificate from the managing organisation.

Fine, if people consider the legislation outdated then they have every right to do something about it. Take, for instance, the interpretation of whether CLs/CSs were open to use by non-members which I successfully argued for (https://www.gjh.me.uk/cls.htm). However, the fact is that the legislation has been updated several times since 1960 and parliament obviously feels that it is fit for purpose so any arguments put forward will have to be properly argued with strong evidence that change is appropriate.
In the meantime, progress has to take place within the current legal framework no matter how many people make representations.

I think, the increase in interest in Motor-homing, has brought it to the point where the legislation needs to be re-visited?. As I`ve said many times, here and elsewhwere (including to my M-P BTW.) The line between "Camping" and "Sleeping" definitely needs to be revisited. This would remove the "we cannot do it because" argument from the L-A`s. When the more progressive might reconsider?. That however would preclude anything being done by ERCC. They still live in the 18th Cent;.

Ssshhhhh Brits don't want Europeans coming here

They are probably prepared to spend more than the "Scots" who venture South of Gretna?. (OK and the odd Yorkshireman)

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Littlewheels]

Good morning Graham, good to see you posting again. I know it annoys you when I have a dig at LAs (I do the same with central government) but as a genuine point of interest do LAs pay rates on its own properties ?

Yes, LAs do pay rates on their own properties. Business rates are collected by local authorities but (apart from some subject to the fairly recently introduced retention scheme) they are paid over to central government.

So how does that work then? They withdraw it from the Town Hall Purse and then repay it straight back in,it doesn’t seem like the same contribution we all make.

 

[jongood]

It would be nicer to see a British company doing it though?. Where are the UK "entrepreneurs"?

I don't care who does it -I would support any reasonable proposition; I just wish 'you know who' would let them......

 

[Barclaybasher]

So how does that work then? They withdraw it from the Town Hall Purse and then repay it straight back in,it doesn’t seem like the same contribution we all make.

Especially as it was our money (taxpayer's) in the first place !!

 

[jongood]

Fine, if people consider the legislation outdated then they have every right to do something about it. Take, for instance, the interpretation of whether CLs/CSs were open to use by non-members which I successfully argued for (https://www.gjh.me.uk/cls.htm). However, the fact is that the legislation has been updated several times since 1960 and parliament obviously feels that it is fit for purpose so any arguments put forward will have to be properly argued with strong evidence that change is appropriate.
In the meantime, progress has to take place within the current legal framework no matter how many people make representations.

There are 260 posts on this thread so far, 23 are by yourself GJH , given your vast experience in theses matters it might have been helpful if you could have given any positive advice, but I can't find one. Am I wrong?

 

[Speve]

I've written many such myself and it would be great to think that 11000 members of CAMpRA are actively undertaking similar correspondence. It would be interesting to see some stats on their web site of the numbers of such conversations and their outcomes.

As I mentioned they have a group on Face Book which you won’t join so you are unable to see the conversations and outcomes.
They do not have a web site

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}