UK Motorhome parking Camping-Car Park may be of interest?

[Speve]

Don’t do Facebook, but is that who is paying for the land/property. I was only going by what I saw on tv about Manchester and prices.

No not at all what they are doing is approaching LAs And land owners with capacity for an aire such as old closed down garages underused car parking all sorts of places explaining the advantages of having one and asking if they would consider it.
They seem to be having some success but only time will tell.

 

[Ivory55]

Presumably these premises have a rateable value, so who would be paying the rates on them ? It was said about public toilets one of the costs of running them is paying the rates/council tax on them.

 

[Speve]

Presumably these premises have a rateable value, so who would be paying the rates on them ? It was said about public toilets one of the costs of running them is paying the rates/council tax on them.

I wouldn’t know that as I’m only passing on info but at the end of the day someone will have to cover costs but the aim is if a council has an underused car park and can turn it into an aire that will bring in some income to cover some of their unused places surely that’s a no brainier.

 

[Barclaybasher]

Have you watched manctopia ? Charities etc want places near civilisation in Manchester but the price of property and land makes it a no go. Who is going to pay the same prices to provide an aire ? Just wondering.

Carparks already there in town centres and cities that are underused at night. More revenue for LAs ...or private operators

 

[Ivory55]

Carparks already there in town centres and cities that are underused at night. More revenue for LAs ...or private operators

I can see it being revalued for rates as a different use to just parking and more rates needed to be paid. Imagine if you knew someone with a campsite paying X amount per sq metre of parking and an aire paying less, or a hgv yard paying more rates to park their motors then an aire . Yes I can see that going down well.

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[chaser]

I know we have had all this out many times before but worth another mention as some on this thread don't seem to say anything about.
In France where all this is starting from the council's have to provide parking for motorhomes , it's in some form of law, here council's in the main act just the opposite and would like to ban any form of motorhome parking so that is the first obstacle.
Another thing is the cost of the land, in France they have loads of places just standing idle, most of their house building is in the big towns as that is where most of the French want to live and plenty barren spaces in the sticks, so the council there thinks we might as make that into an Aire as we have to provide one and no one else wants it.
Now here every square inch is down for building as soon as they get a sniff of somewhere being vacent and no wish to harbour filthy motorhomes.
Then you come to the big two clubs, they don't want neither council's or ordinary people starting up in competition, and will do anything they can to put a stop to Aires.
So once this firm get a hold of they do you will have 4 or five different concerns fighting over ever lessoning and more expensive ground.

 

[Speve]

I know we have had all this out many times before but worth another mention as some on this thread don't seem to say anything about.
In France where all this is starting from the council's have to provide parking for motorhomes , it's in some form of law, here council's in the main act just the opposite and would like to ban any form of motorhome parking so that is the first obstacle.
Another thing is the cost of the land, in France they have loads of places just standing idle, most of their house building is in the big towns as that is where most of the French want to live and plenty barren spaces in the sticks, so the council there thinks we might as make that into an Aire as we have to provide one and no one else wants it.
Now here every square inch is down for building as soon as they get a sniff of somewhere being vacent and no wish to harbour filthy motorhomes.
Then you come to the big two clubs, they don't want neither council's or ordinary people starting up in competition, and will do anything they can to put a stop to Aires.
So once this firm get a hold of they do you will have 4 or five different concerns fighting over ever lessoning and more expensive ground.

Very sorry but your determination to not encourage anything you don’t like will not stop this discussion we have heard your arguments so you don’t need to repeat them.

 

[Barclaybasher]

I can see it being revalued for rates as a different use to just parking and more rates needed to be paid. Imagine if you knew someone with a campsite paying X amount per sq metre of parking and an aire paying less, or a hgv yard paying more rates to park their motors then an aire . Yes I can see that going down well.

So councils will increase rates on their own carparks....which will then prevent them from earning revenue....

I was going to say they wouldn't be so stupid..... but

 

[Ivory55]

So councils will increase rates on their own carparks....which will then prevent them from earning revenue....

I was going to say they wouldn't be so stupid..... but

They charge rates on public toilets so why not. I think it’s because they are all different departments and have to cover costs etc.

 

[chaser]

Very sorry but your determination to not encourage anything you don’t like will not stop this discussion we have heard your arguments so you don’t need to repeat them.

I am not trying to discourage anything, just a few facts that some in this thread are determined to ignore.

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[Barclaybasher]

They charge rates on public toilets so why not. I think it’s because they are all different departments and have to cover costs etc.

Assuming there would only be a dump and water supply and no building to service I can't see there could be much extra to charge rates on.

I am sure Camping Carpark would not be looking to provide Aires if they hadn't already sounded out some LAs and private carpark owners...

If they succeed I will certainly try touring the UK and so will many more Europeans... another 'selling point' for CCP...

 

[Ivory55]

Assuming there would only be a dump and water supply and no building to service I can't see there could be much extra to charge rates on.

I am sure Camping Carpark would not be looking to provide Aires if they hadn't already sounded out some LAs and private carpark owners...

If they succeed I will certainly try touring the UK and so will many more Europeans... another 'selling point' for CCP...

Money, nobody does anything for nothing. We can only wait and see what happens.

 

[GJH]

It’s really worth taking a look at the Campaign for real aires-CAMpRA forum on FB there is a lot of info and work going on the forum is not in the main for chats but for info and people that are doing things to encourage LAs and landowners to set them up.

I have and saw Rule 2 "Your post and the replies if deemed to be detrimental to the aims of this group will therefore be removed. Please continue to post in support of our aims in a positive way".
i.e. "Don't dare point out practical obstacles or the need to take into account that others in society have different views or you are out" - same attitude as XR to the press as demonstrated a week or two ago.
Suffered enough of that self centred attitude from posters in this and other forums to bother, thank you

 

[GJH]

So councils will increase rates on their own carparks....which will then prevent them from earning revenue....

I was going to say they wouldn't be so stupid..... but

They charge rates on public toilets so why not. I think it’s because they are all different departments and have to cover costs etc.

Land/property which is liable to pay business rates is determined by rules laid down by central government. Rateable values are determined by the Valuation Office Agency, an agency of central government.
Owners of land/property have to pay the determined amount whoever they are, including councils. It is nothing to do with covering costs, different departments or stupidity.

 

[Barclaybasher]

Land/property which is liable to pay business rates is determined by rules laid down by central government. Rateable values are determined by the Valuation Office Agency, an agency of central government.
Owners of land/property have to pay the determined amount whoever they are, including councils. It is nothing to do with covering costs, different departments or stupidity.

Good morning Graham, good to see you posting again. I know it annoys you when I have a dig at LAs (I do the same with central government) but as a genuine point of interest do LAs pay rates on its own properties ?

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[chaser]

Good morning Graham, good to see you posting again. I know it annoys you when I have a dig at LAs (I do the same with central government) but as a genuine point of interest do LAs pay rates on its own properties ?

Same here GJH really pleased to see you back posting, havnt seen eye to eye with you lots of times but always nice to see the other view, I seem to have come round to a lot of your ideas on this post, but there are a lot of people now have the view they have the right idea and just try to trash others take on this.

 

[Speve]

Suffered enough of that self centred attitude from posters in this and other forums to bother, thank you

I wasn’t saying partake in the group just have a look to see what good work they are doing as for rule 2 you may be correct but I believe the aim of it was to keep minds focused on the task in hand and not go off thread forgetting about the main aims of finding aires sites.
By the way I do not take any part in the group either

 

[GJH]

Good morning Graham, good to see you posting again. I know it annoys you when I have a dig at LAs (I do the same with central government) but as a genuine point of interest do LAs pay rates on its own properties ?

Same here GJH really pleased to see you back posting, havnt seen eye to eye with you lots of times but always nice to see the other view, I seem to have come round to a lot of your ideas on this post, but there are a lot of people now have the view they have the right idea and just try to trash others take on this.

Thank you both for that. I've posted recently having been alerted to the subjects.

Yes, LAs do pay rates on their own properties. Business rates are collected by local authorities but (apart from some subject to the fairly recently introduced retention scheme) they are paid over to central government.

There is no more wrong with having a go at government (local or central) than there is any other organisation. The problem comes when (as has been admitted by some posters in the past) it arises from prejudice or preconception rather than facts

 

[GJH]

I wasn’t saying partake in the group just have a look to see what good work they are doing as for rule 2 you may be correct but I believe the aim of it was to keep minds focused on the task in hand and not go off thread forgetting about the main aims of finding aires sites.
By the way I do not take any part in the group either

As far as the Facebook group goes one cannot just have a look to see what good work they are doing without joining. Removing that restriction might attract people.
I did have a look at the web site and note that several documents still fail to understand the distinction between parking and camping. If they are starting from that level of lack of understanding then I fear falling foul of rule 2 would be inevitably quick

 

[Marty Gilly and Pup]

Another thing thst might come of Camping Carpark interest is that the Clubs might now look at providing what we need at competetive prices..

More suppliers equals more competition and lower prices normally. Stick a few hundred new sites in and see what happens to everyone’s prices. We aren’t ever going to get mass free aires in the uk. This is next best option. Not ideal but the most realistic solution to the current lack of facilities.

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[Barclaybasher]

Thank you both for that. I've posted recently having been alerted to the subjects.

Yes, LAs do pay rates on their own properties. Business rates are collected by local authorities but (apart from some subject to the fairly recently introduced retention scheme) they are paid over to central government.

There is no more wrong with having a go at government (local or central) than there is any other organisation. The problem comes when (as has been admitted by some posters in the past) it arises from prejudice or preconception rather than facts

You are quite right Graham inertia and poor management isn't just in the public sector it seems to be so in many other large organisations.

One of the problems for all are 'targets', particularly financial.

Accountants see a way of 'saving' money without seeing how services are affected.

Imagine an accountant takes over a football club just relegated from the Premier League -

How can we now pay high wages?

The players (high wage earners) are worth millions....

Save money and cash in the players............. brilliant !

4 years later the club is out of the football league..........

Before anyone says anything - yes the league has a 'Golden Parachute' now for relegated clubs

Just a simplified example of accountants 'thinking' not knowing the 'business' they are in.............

 

[Speve]

I did have a look at the web site and note that several documents still fail to understand the distinction between parking and camping. If they are starting from that level of lack of understanding then I fear falling foul of rule 2 would be inevitably quick

I think you need to see all of it to understand but they do have a distinction between parking an camping and quite clearly state that in their suggestions and reasoning when writing and contacting prospective aire site owners
They are a very switched on group and would benefit from someone with your knowledge in the application process

 

[nicholsong]

I think you need to see all of it to understand but they do have a distinction between parking an camping and quite clearly state that in their suggestions and reasoning when writing and contacting prospective aire site owners
They are a very switched on group and would benefit from someone with your knowledge in the application process

Also if GJH told them that some ideas might not work he would breach their Rule 2.

He has had enough of criticism of his efforts in the past, so maybe he is wise to steer away.

Geoff

 

[Speve]

Also if GJH told them that some ideas might not work he would breach their Rule 2.

He has had enough of criticism of his efforts in the past, so maybe he is wise to steer away.

Geoff

But he won’t know unless he tries will he?
I’m not criticising him he has done sterling work on MHF in the past. I just feel that he assumes they know nothing about the difference between parking and camping and that is not correct.
I appreciate that If he does not wish to join it that’s his choice? But he should give them credit for setting this up and succeeding in obtaining some positive results regarding parking areas and ideas to carry it forward with the help of CCP.

 

[Loadofmischief]

When the Caravan act was laid down motorhomes were a very rare sight, both the increase in numbers and the improvements in technology surely means that its time to revisit this now rather myopic legislation.

I really dislike the majority of the offerings of the Caravan Clubs and would like nothing more to see a good workable alternative.

Tourism to the UK and the economy would definitely benefit.

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[nicholsong]

Tourism to the UK and the economy would definitely benefit.

Sounds as though UK MHoming is full already, this year at least.

 

[jongood]

Sounds as though UK MHoming is full already, this year at least.

Yes Geoff but the point is that aires would add additional capacity so it would be easier to stay in UK. Its a pita currently.

 

[jongood]

But he won’t know unless he tries will he?
I’m not criticising him he has done sterling work on MHF in the past. I just feel that he assumes they know nothing about the difference between parking and camping and that is not correct.
I appreciate that If he does not wish to join it that’s his choice? But he should give them credit for setting this up and succeeding in obtaining some positive results regarding parking areas and ideas to carry it forward with the help of CCP.

Yes GJH used to provide an excellent resource, working between the confines of what is currently allowed here. The bit that is missing is that he has never experienced firsthand the freedom that the French Aires and German Stellplatze gives.

 

[chaser]

Yes GJH used to provide an excellent resource, working between the confines of what is currently allowed here. The bit that is missing is that he has never experienced firsthand the freedom that the French Aires and German Stellplatze gives.

Yeah that was always what I couldn't get across to him, where we always fell down.

 

[Reallyretired]

Sounds as though UK MHoming is full already, this year at least.

We are currently in N Yorkshire, not in mh, but never seen so many motorhomes and shed-pullers on the roads.

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