UK Motorhome parking Camping-Car Park may be of interest?

[GJH]

I think you need to see all of it to understand but they do have a distinction between parking an camping and quite clearly state that in their suggestions and reasoning when writing and contacting prospective aire site owners
They are a very switched on group and would benefit from someone with your knowledge in the application process

In the document Council advice: "Importantly it's parking not camping"
In the document If anyone wishes to copy: "We feel unwelcome because we are expected to stay on campsites and campsite owners actively lobby town and city councils to disallow motorhomes parking ‘off grid’."
In the document Letter to Local Councillor: "Motorhome owners don't need campsites with all the bells and whistles i.e. toilets, shower blocks, clubhouses, play areas just a place to park for one or two nights."
There are even two documents entitled Motorhome Parking Draft Letter to York Council and Motorhome Parking Draft Letter Template.

Also if GJH told them that some ideas might not work he would breach their Rule 2.
He has had enough of criticism of his efforts in the past, so maybe he is wise to steer away.
Geoff

Exactly the reason I gave earlier.

But he won’t know unless he tries will he?
I’m not criticising him he has done sterling work on MHF in the past. I just feel that he assumes they know nothing about the difference between parking and camping and that is not correct.
I appreciate that If he does not wish to join it that’s his choice? But he should give them credit for setting this up and succeeding in obtaining some positive results regarding parking areas and ideas to carry it forward with the help of CCP.

Won't he? After thirteen years of promoting the idea in various forums and magazines and coming up against people who will not (note, not can not) understand the facts I think he will.
By the way use of the words "positive results regarding parking areas" does not enhance the argument

Yes GJH used to provide an excellent resource, working between the confines of what is currently allowed here. The bit that is missing is that he has never experienced firsthand the freedom that the French Aires and German Stellplatze gives.

Yeah that was always what I couldn't get across to him, where we always fell down.

It is perfectly true that I never experienced the French Aires and German Stellplatze but I disagree that I need to in order to understand and appreciate the idea. Working as a business analyst for many years I studied many areas that I never actually worked in but that did not prevent the understanding of system requirements.

 

[Speve]

Won't he? After thirteen years of promoting the idea in various forums and magazines and coming up against people who will not (note, not can not) understand the facts I think he will.
By the way use of the words "positive results regarding parking areas" does not enhance the argument

But what is not positive about new parking areas for Motorhomes? I’m not arguing just advertising the fact that they are having limited success.

In the document Council advice: "Importantly it's parking not camping"
In the document If anyone wishes to copy: "We feel unwelcome because we are expected to stay on campsites and campsite owners actively lobby town and city councils to disallow motorhomes parking ‘off grid’."
In the document Letter to Local Councillor: "Motorhome owners don't need campsites with all the bells and whistles i.e. toilets, shower blocks, clubhouses, play areas just a place to park for one or two nights."
There are even two documents entitled Motorhome Parking Draft Letter to York Council and Motorhome Parking Draft Letter Template

is your point that you have read these documents?

 

[Speve]

I think if you read through this it does state about parking and not camping.
The CAMpRA Way

• Allow overnight parking in car parks that are not in residential areas
• Erect signs directing motorcaravans to car parks (see below)
• Charge £5 per night to park and sleep overnight in self contained motorcaravan (no camping behaviour allowed – ie no bbqs, no chairs/tables, no awnings etc)
• Use the money generated from car park fees, and saved from enforcement costs, to provide waste emptying points (required every 4 to 5 days). At locations where there are toilets, there could be a small charge to use these, which can support public facilities threatened with closure
• Use money saved to improve on rubbish bins and collection services.

 

[chaser]

But what is not positive about new parking areas for Motorhomes? I’m not arguing just advertising the fact that they are having limited success.

is your point that you have read these documents?

I think you will find he has read them all, and you will not win there.

 

[jongood]

It is perfectly true that I never experienced the French Aires and German Stellplatze but I disagree that I need to in order to understand and appreciate the idea. Working as a business analyst for many years I studied many areas that I never actually worked in but that did not prevent the understanding of system requirements.

I think you re failing to fully appreciate the attraction to the users.

Its a bit like a teatotal wine critic

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[Ivory55]

I can see why people might object. You want waste water disposal, drinking water, waste bins, and all for £5 a night. Then you’re telling someone who would be paying council tax and rates for this at their home and having to pay for a parking permit to parking outside their own house. Yes I can see people welcome this with open arms.

 

[chaser]

I think you re failing to fully appreciate the attraction to the users.

Its a bit like a teatotal wine critic

This is very true, and what I always tried to get across , until you have been and experienced the system in France there is no way you can understand it no matter how many government papers you have read.
But on the other hand I still don't see how a CCP system is going to get us anywhere near it.

 

[jongood]

This is very true, and what I always tried to get across , until you have been and experienced the system in France there is no way you can understand it no matter how many government papers you have read.
But on the other hand I still don't see how a CCP system is going to get us anywhere near it.

I think it would be a good step in the right direction. As was said earlier as it becomes more normal I could see more organisations entering the market for various reasons. I ve previously tried to get the NT to allow it but they then consult their partner The Caravan Club who 'advised' them not to.

 

[jongood]

I can see why people might object. You want waste water disposal, drinking water, waste bins, and all for £5 a night. Then you’re telling someone who would be paying council tax and rates for this at their home and having to pay for a parking permit to parking outside their own house. Yes I can see people welcome this with open arms.

This isnt how it works at all in other countries, in France it has become normal to have Motorhome sections, frequently signposted from the edge of town or even on Autoroutes trying to get MH's to stop off at their town.

Its all about tourism, I'm a firm believer that getting people there is the job of the local council/tourist organisation and then its up to the traders to coax the money out of their pockets.

 

[Ivory55]

I just see it as life in the uk today, everyone thinks that they are fully entitled and take offence if other people don’t agree. Want want want, but pay nothing or very little sums it all up today.

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[Gellyneck]

Struggling to understand why someone has to have first-hand experience of, eg using a facility, to appreciate how it works in principle. If that was to be a "fixed criteria" in life how many UK Parliament Secretary's \ Civil Servants, entrepreneurs, business management, etc would fail that test?

Graham has put in a considerable amount of effort around parking \ camping criteria and I believe he is not anti this as he only points out the existing blockages. I think folk should be supporting him for raising these potential issues so those who are seeking change have an insight into potential hurdles to overcome. A bit like don't shoot the messenger.

 

[chaser]

Struggling to understand why someone has to have first-hand experience of, eg using a facility, to appreciate how it works in principle. If that was to be a "fixed criteria" in life how many UK Parliament Secretary's \ Civil Servants, entrepreneurs, business management, etc would fail that test?

Graham has put in a considerable amount of effort around parking \ camping criteria and I believe he is not anti this as he only points out the existing blockages. I think folk should be supporting him for raising these potential issues so those who are seeking change have an insight into potential hurdles to overcome. A bit like don't shoot the messenger.

That is the whole point though it's not just the parking it's the completely different way of life in response to motorhomes, and traveler control, you are positively welcomed to the villages not something to screw all you can and get rid of as quick as possible, and no amount of reading government papers can enlighten you of that way of life

 

[jongood]

I just see it as life in the uk today, everyone thinks that they are fully entitled and take offence if other people don’t agree. Want want want, but pay nothing or very little sums it all up today.

I just think that it is that its a good way to increase tourism, manage the motorhome traffic thereby reducing nuisance in unsuitable areas and raising a bit of revenue

 

[jongood]

Struggling to understand why someone has to have first-hand experience of, eg using a facility, to appreciate how it works in principle. If that was to be a "fixed criteria" in life how many UK Parliament Secretary's \ Civil Servants, entrepreneurs, business management, etc would fail that test?

Graham has put in a considerable amount of effort around parking \ camping criteria and I believe he is not anti this as he only points out the existing blockages. I think folk should be supporting him for raising these potential issues so those who are seeking change have an insight into potential hurdles to overcome. A bit like don't shoot the messenger.

A forum is a place where everybody has equal rights to put forward their views. It would eunrealistic and somewhat pointless if everybody had the same view. Nobody is compelled to take part .As long as it doesn't get offensive then I can't see a problem.

 

[Gellyneck]

A forum is a place where everybody has equal rights to put forward their views. It would eunrealistic and somewhat pointless if everybody had the same view. Nobody is compelled to take part .As long as it doesn't get offensive then I can't see a problem.

I'm unclear as to how you can take from my post I was saying other posters are not entitled to their own opinions?
If you can clarify why I will certainly look at and amend if required.

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[Gellyneck]

That is the whole point though it's not just the parking it's the completely different way of life in response to motorhomes, and traveler control, you are positively welcomed to the villages not something to screw all you can and get rid of as quick as possible, and no amount of reading government papers can enlighten you of that way of life

Agreed that reading Government papers would give no insight as to how other countries treat a section of the community however I don't think that Graham has actually alluded to that. Apolgies if I've missed that in the thread.
All I can see he has done is endeavour to support those who are seeking to change \ influence Governmental \ Council policy \ opinion by identifying potential pitfalls \ obstacles that may be encountered so they are forewarned.
I, personally, can't see anything untoward on that. In other instances some organisations may actually pay for this type of analysis to help them formulate their actions.

 

[chaser]

Agreed that reading Government papers would give no insight as to how other countries treat a section of the community however I don't think that Graham has actually alluded to that. Apolgies if I've missed that in the thread.
All I can see he has done is endeavour to support those who are seeking to change \ influence Governmental \ Council policy \ opinion by identifying potential pitfalls \ obstacles that may be encountered so they are forewarned.
I, personally, can't see anything untoward on that. In other instances some organisations may actually pay for this type of analysis to help them formulate their actions.

I wasn't alludeing to his posts on this thread, of which I agree with a lot of, but threads of long ago.

 

[Speve]

I think you will find he has read them all, and you will not win there.

Not even going to try the info is out there for all to see

 

[Speve]

I just see it as life in the uk today, everyone thinks that they are fully entitled and take offence if other people don’t agree. Want want want, but pay nothing or very little sums it all up today.

It’s not wanting something for nothing you have quoted £5 that would be for a nights parking without facilities I think that is fair and if facilities are provided such as a tap and waste disposal £10 per night again I don’t think that’s unreasonable and it’s money going back to the councils for unused car parking that would raise nothing at all
What would you expect to pay for an aire with facilities?

 

[Ivory55]

It’s not wanting something for nothing you have quoted £5 that would be for a nights parking without facilities I think that is fair and if facilities are provided such as a tap and waste disposal £10 per night again I don’t think that’s unreasonable and it’s money going back to the councils for unused car parking that would raise nothing at all
What would you expect to pay for an aire with facilities?

Personally we use sites

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[Ivory55]

And even worse we have an A frame, and a generator as well.

 

[Ivory55]

Just a thought as it’s always being said about Aires in France and how good it is and how its welcome over there. Well the home owners over there pay about a 1/3 of the council tax that a uk home owner pays , how about reducing council tax to the same amount here and the Aires could make up the short fall. It would then be in comparison to France. Just a thought.

 

[nicholsong]

Just a thought as it’s always being said about Aires in France and how good it is and how its welcome over there. Well the home owners over there pay about a 1/3 of the council tax that a uk home owner pays , how about reducing council tax to the same amount here and the Aires could make up the short fall. It would then be in comparison to France. Just a thought.

A lot of the Aires in France we stay on are owned by the local community so I do not know if they pay themselves taxes or not.

 

[jongood]

Just a thought as it’s always being said about Aires in France and how good it is and how its welcome over there. Well the home owners over there pay about a 1/3 of the council tax that a uk home owner pays , how about reducing council tax to the same amount here and the Aires could make up the short fall. It would then be in comparison to France. Just a thought.

Can I ask if you're not interested in using aires why are you bothered about the content of this thread?

 

[Ivory55]

Can I ask if you're not interested in using aires why are you bothered about the content of this thread?

As I said before.
I don’t particularly like work
It’s not particularly well paid now days
And I don’t see why I should subsidise other people’s holidays who have far more money then me.
Like everyone else in the country today I am only concerned with myself.

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[jongood]

As I said before.
I don’t particularly like work
It’s not particularly well paid now days
And I don’t see why I should subsidise other people’s holidays who have far more money then me.
Like everyone else in the country today I am only concerned with myself.

How is a private company investing money in uk affecting your tax bill?

 

[Ivory55]

How is a private company investing money in uk affecting your tax bill?

Nothing is free, I bet just like all council schemes that they have to pay in as well. There is always a catch, and yes I don’t trust anybody.

 

[Speve]

Personally we use sites

So you have no interest in using aires?have you ever used one? You may find them a pleasant change from camp sites

 

[GJH]

But what is not positive about new parking areas for Motorhomes? I’m not arguing just advertising the fact that they are having limited success.

Campra are not asking for parking areas they are asking for camping areas.

is your point that you have read these documents?

No, that their use of the term "parking" indicates that they do not understand the difference between parking and camping in UK law. If they cannot even understand that fundamental fact it is hardly a good foundation.

 

[GJH]

I think you re failing to fully appreciate the attraction to the users.

Its a bit like a teatotal wine critic

I fully appreciate the attraction. Most of our camping over the years has been at C&CC rallies/THSs. I realise that their temporary nature makes them different but the principle of just traveling round and not have to book is similar.
I have never been against aires in the UK (for instance publishing this article several years ago) but they have been and will only be created where the land owners see a positive result. Far too many calls for aires in the UK are based on inaccurate claims.

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